Women...Do any of you still want romance?

[Tigress84]

Truth

Actually, I already knew most of that. That was a lot to read. lol I enjoyed it though. Your arguement has a lot of valid points, but I would chose love over DNA any day, cause I like to argue. lol Life is never boring for long with me. lol

 

[Random Variable]

Wordy

Yes, Tigress, I do tend to be wordy. My apologies. How can I make this up to you? Shall we argue? You first!
R.V.

 

[Tigress84]

Argue

lol I love to argue!!! Okay, let's agrue about it. lol Would you go for love? Or would you go for DNA?

 

[Guest]

OK, Tiger--
Just for the sake of argument, I'll take the point of view that what women really want is good DNA and wanting love is just a superficial cover-up designed to make themselves feel good.

Exhibit 1: The enormous success with women rock stars, rich guys and politicians have with women. Kareem Abdul-Jabar has bedded over 10,000 women. Michael Jordan, 7,000 (how many got AIDs?--nobody talks about that!)--Not that I'm jealous or anything Hey--hey--hey--they got the DNA!

Exhibit 2: Romantic love is an invention of the French troubadours of the 14th century. It was never a part of western civilization before that and is unknown in other cultures. So, most women that have ever lived are completely ignorant of romantic love.

Exhibit 3: I remember a very interesting study where men and women were ranked by members of the other gender on looks. Then they were interviewed on how happy they were. The top 5%-ranked men were incredibly happy. Why? Classic good looks, athletic build got them all the popularity, social position and women in bed they could handle. Top 5% of women however, were miserable--always insecure about their looks, worried that their nearest competition was going to get the better man. And either badgered by low-status men or extremely lonely because prized for their looks only. (Interestingly, the next 20% of women were the happiest group).

Had enough, Tiger? Give in yet? Surrender? Give up? Admit defeat? Bow and scrape yet?
R.V.

 

[Random Variable]

That was me

That was me, Tiger. Not trying to hide from your sharp claws. Registration didn't seem to work.
R.V.

 

[Tigress84]

Love

Actually love has existed far longer than you think it was. It goes back to the middle ages, when thin women were considered to be ugly and middle to fat sized women were all the rage. Painters of that time period not only displayed it in their paintings, but singers sang of it and books were written about it.

 

[Random Variable]

Love's origins

Oh, yes, Tigress, you are quite right. Love has been around for thousands of years. Ancient Greek stuff is great; Ovid's Art of Love, Tantric stuff, Sappho's Lesbian poetry (from island of Lesbos, you can visit it today).

I certainly believe in love.

But romantic love is, as you point out, a product of the 14th century French troubadours--the whole woman on a pedestal thing (OK by me as long as she's within love-triangle-worshiping-range!), honor of a lady, one true love, knights clashing for her favor, etc. Also where the cult of virginity seems to have come from.

When you think about it, it makes sense from the point of view of the risks every single woman took in giving herself to a man, esp. during the middle ages.

Actually, I buy into romantic love, at least up to a point. I do adore (nice) women. When I'm really turned on by one, it's close to religious worship. Just because romantic love is a recent invention doesn't make it bad.

Almost the entire popular culture, though, is killing the idea, the positive aspects of romantic love. Can you think of a single popular sitcom where either man or woman is treated as a being of value and not just an airheaded, copulating, smart-mouthed, not-too-successful bimbo/bimber (male bimbo)?

So now I'm going to make all the TV-watchers out there mad!
Quick get the shield!
What do you think, Tigress?

R.V.

 

[SexyChele]

To answer the questions raised in the original post:

1. Yes, women love romance. But too much of a good thing can be taken for granted and/or ignored. Romance is much more fun when it is something she doesn't expect - flowers sent to her at work "just because", a card sent to her with a riddle in it for her to solve as to the sender, just random acts of showing you care. But if a guy does it every week, it gets boooooriiiiiing! And if you always send roses on her birthday? Dullsville! Keep it special, keep it a surprise, but keep it!

Now, most women don't think guys want or desire romance, so many women don't really think that much about it. I remember when my father was still living and I was stumped as to what to get him for Father's Day. I talked to a woman I worked with, and she suggested flowers. FLOWERS?!?!? To my father? But I had a dozen carnations sent to him at work. Granted, he was my father, so there was no romance involved, but he was so proud of them that he placed them prominently on his desk for all to see. Now, I don't suggest women buying men flowers - some guys just can't deal with that. But women do need to be told, sometimes, that their men like to be romanced as well.

2. I've struggled with the idea of "nice guys" for quite some time. And I disagree with most of what "Unregistered" has stated. (If all women want is the DNA to make babies, then why are most women on birth control? Makes absolutely no sense, unless a woman is trying to get pregnant.) I absolutely don't agree with the "submissive" concept, either. I am a sexual submissive. I highly desire a dominant man. But a dominant man does NOT always equate to "jerk".

Guys who get the tag "nice guys" are often not considered as "masculine" as men who are jerks and assholes. It might be in their mannerisms or speech, but they are sometimes perceived as being "weak" or "mild". Many of the jerks and assholes have what society regards as masculine traits or looks. Now, that doesn't mean all nice guys aren't masculine. Of course not. It's just a perception. And often one that is wrong.

But let's face it - just as guys depend mostly on looks in deciding which female to go after, women do the same thing. If I walk into a crowded room, I look for my "type". If I don't see him there, I have a tendency to disregard the others. Now, before the flames start, men do exactly the same thing. They will look for whatever "type" they are attracted to, and if a woman is not there that meets that standard, they will state there are no attractive women there. And there could be 10 or 15 - but they are not the "type" considered to be attractive.

I also think that as women age, they look for different things in men. They begin to understand that being "nice" and being "masculine" can add up to the same thing. Just like most men, as they age, are more willing to overlook imperfections in women.

When you're young, you sometimes waste what is right in front of you. When you are a little older, you learn to appreciate it.

 

[Tigress84]

Shows

What about the 70's show. Donna and Eric. King of the Hill, Peggy and Hank. And Buffy the Vampire Slayer: Buffy and Angel and many more shows just like it.

 

[QuickDuck]

I just have a question for the lovely ladies here at Lit...And that being is romance dead? I try my damndest to show a woman romance as I see it, and get very little in return. I have found in my own personal experience that women think it's some kind of BS. I realize there are a lot of guys out there that think romance as standing in the doorway of the bedroom...pnts around their ankles..."Do ya wanna? It's a commercial"... and I must admit that makes it hard on the guys that are really into the whole romance package... I would just like some input on what some of you ladies think on this subject.

Also... Why is it that nice guys finish last? Why is it that anytime I ask a woman what kind of guy she wants, I always hear..."I want a nice guy", yet, the A-holes always seem to get the girl.. But the girl has no problem asking advice from their "nice guy friend"... I'm also very tired of hearing... "I'm so lucky to have you as a friend"

Just a few thoughts from the ladies would help me out... Thanks

Hate to tell you this mate, but that is one of the age old questions that i don;t think will ever really be answered.

Its the old "men are from mars, women are from venus" thing.

 

[Random Variable]

You are on target

To answer the questions raised in the original post:

1. Yes, women love romance. But women do need to be told, sometimes, that their men like to be romanced as well.

2. (If all women want is the DNA to make babies, then why are most women on birth control? Makes absolutely no sense, unless a woman is trying to get pregnant.) I absolutely don't agree with the "submissive" concept, either. I am a sexual submissive. I highly desire a dominant man. But a dominant man does NOT always equate to "jerk".

Guys who get the tag "nice guys" are often not considered as "masculine" as men who are jerks and assholes.

But let's face it - just as guys depend mostly on looks in deciding which female to go after, women do the same thing

I also think that as women age, they look for different things in men. They begin to understand that being "nice" and being "masculine" can add up to the same thing. Just like most men, as they age, are more willing to overlook imperfections in women.

When you're young, you sometimes waste what is right in front of you. When you are a little older, you learn to appreciate it.

SC:
Thanks for being entirely honest and on-target (I'm the unregistered one)--especially on the 'looks' comment. I believe a lot has to do with context. In a bar, about the only information you have about a man or woman is looks, dress, bodily language. But at work, there are many more clues that put looks in context.

Many women say that looks don't matter; it's just not true. Very, very good looking men are extremely successful. But women have a broader definition of 'looks' than men.

Regarding 'jerk' and masculine: I think jerks hijack that idea and many women mistake the one for the other. Jerks often create an artificial status for themselves in their social group. As for submissive, I can't answer. Except as an occasional for-fun role play, I prefer strict equality (not that I wouldn't mind tying down or being tied down for a tryst or two).

Regarding DNA--yes, it's true most women are on birth control. But we are talking here about a couple million years of human evolution and five or more million years of mammalian evolution before that. The needs and desires for high-status males are hard-wired, just as male's needs for symbols of fertility (even if misleading) are hardwired. Birth control is wonderful in one way because it can actually allow love to blossom, beyond DNA.

And yes, again--right on--about age. We get too soon old and too late smart!

I like what you said about surprise-type romantic ideas (like the riddle). More ideas please! I feel I am pretty romantic, but I can't tell you how much it is like travelling in a foreign country. That a woman can get turned on by a riddle and words, words, words...

But once again you are quite right--women could spend more time romancing their men. I'd love to get a card appreciating me out of the blue. Branden's book, The Art of Living Consciously talks about how many men feel they are invisible. So ladies, pick up the phone and tell your man anything from how glad you are to be with him to what a wonderful cock he has!

 

[Nicodemus]

Along the lines of what SC was saying.... try surprising her for lunch (call and check with her boss). Pack a picnic lunch and take her out if it is a nice day ( and for you manly men; screw the looks of 'whipped', you know you want that pussy and enjoy it being whipped on you).

Plan an evenig out, wether it is dining and dancing or an evening in, movies and some food. Take that time for just the two of you and plan it out so she can come home and just relax (If you have kids, get them in on it, have tehm serve you then send 'em to a friends or relatives).

A nice bath and some oils and a foot massage is a good way to go.

A good way to start off her day, if you leave before she does, write on the mirror a little love message.

Send her flowers on "Your Hair Looks Really Great Day", or for "I am one lucky Bastard for Having You In My Life Day" or even "Loving You More Each Day Day". Those random acts of love tell her that it is true emotion not Valentines Day obligation.

 

[SexyChele]

Nic,
I'm guessin' the ladies in your life are thinkin' you are one special man!


RV,
Different women like different things. I like words. I can be seduced by words. And I like to solve things. So riddles, or even a crossword puzzle (doesn't have to be much) can make me smile, and know that he thought of me when he put it together.

Another idea? One that I LOVE! Having my man make a casette tape of him talking. (I said I was into words, right?) Especially when he is horny, telling me how is stroking himself, what he's thinking of, what he would like to do. Okay, so maybe it's not truly *romantic*. But, especially if a guy lives a distance away or is going away for a short trip, sending/leaving her a tape for her to listen to will certainly keep you in her thoughts.

Oh, and I've found out the same works for men. I've made a few casette tapes while getting myself off and sent them to a very special man. When we can't be together, he can still listen to what I want. He says he loves it, so what can I say?

I also love surprises. Plan out an afternoon or evening for the two of you. Simply tell her what time to be ready and what she should wear. (Get dressed up or just jeans and a t shirt) Then do something totally different than a club or dinner or whatever. Take her to an amusement park, and let yourself be kids again. Or take her to a secluded beach and build a fire while huddled in a blanket. (Loved that scene from "Message in a Bottle"!)

Really, romance can be as big or as small as you want it to be. All romance really is, is saying, "I thought of you today, and I think you're pretty damn special." That's it. And it can be as simple as stopping by her office and leaving a single red rose with a co-worker to place on her desk - no note, and swearing her co-worker to secrecy! It can also be as grand as hiring a pilot to write something in sky for her.

There are literally hundreds of thousands of things a man can do to make a woman feel special. And it works the other way round, too. I see women get dozens of flowers from their husbands/boyfriends, and when I ask, "What do you do for him?" I'm always shocked when they look at me and say, "Why HE'S the man - I'm not supposed to romance HIM!" Sad, very sad.

 

[Random Variable]

Great, great ideas!

SC,
Those are great, great ideas! I love and appreciate the tape idea, the amusement park idea.
You are setting my mental motor going...

I travel a lot and would love on one of those trips to have a tape telling me exactly what the woman was going to do to me upon my return. I'd look forward to it all dayl

I once made a relaxation tape for a woman who lived far away, addressed specifically to her. Side A talked to her by name, about the stressors in her life, then went through a relaxation sequence. When she turned over to Side B that continued, getting more and more into a massage. Then the massage turned intimate, telling her what she was to imagine I was doing to her, and taking a long time to do it. Let's just say it got very favorable reviews!

Once when I was attending a boring meeting I wrote a list of the most beautiful and wonderful things women had ever said to me. I've got about 15 or 20 of them. Anybody interested?

More romance ideas?