Writing from the Unconscious

[Rybka]

O.K. I must be wrong.

Almost all of you say you can often write in one burst of creativity. I guess you are more blessed than I am. I cannot do it and have always thought that that was normal for most people.

I must admit that I cannot write on demand and depend upon my muse to give me inspiration. However, after that first burst it may be months to years before I am satisfied that I have a work worth displaying. I salute all of you who have been given a gift that I have not.

Regards,                                 Rybka

 

[Angeline]

Gift?

I salute all of you who have been given a gift that I have not.

You are kind to say this Rybka, but I think--for me at least--the ability to "be inspired" on demand (enough at least to write something with which I'm fairly satisfied) is hard won. For years I thought I needed to wait for my muse to move me. Usually when that happened (and it didn't happen very often), it was because I was feeling emotionally high or low. At the same time, I was writing and editing every day for my job, and I knew I was able to write "inspired" (for what the job demanded) prose. I decided to try an experiment--write poetry every day and see what that did to my motivation to write. I told myself I would persevere--even if I thought I was writing utter crap some days--for six months. Of course there were (and are) days when I produce what I think is pretty bad stuff. On the whole though my poetry improved, and I am now motivated to write much more frequently.

Maybe this is just my formula that works for me, but I think practice is always a good thing. I know it has forced me to think about my strengths and weaknesses and about how to improve.

BTW, the other thing I do is save pretty much everything and go back to reread old stuff periodically. Often the ensuing time and growth will allow me to see a poem in a new light, even if it's just to salvage a piece of it.

 

[Guest]

I've been avoiding a response to Mab.'s original post because it seemed a ridiculous query to me, but as he admits his own lack in writing poetry I presume that won't be taken as a mean thing to say. It is only my opinion.

Plus. I have no admiration for the Beats except as part of a 'new' focus for their time. I must say that I resent Ginsberg had the gall to use the word "Howl" especially if one studies "Lear" more than perfunctorily. No apology here; I knows my Shakespeare. Also, Coleridge was a troubled man but near genius; writing on opium or LSD for most does not produce poetry. Simply fyi:

I am my own muse, I don't believe in muses except as metaphors for whatever might inspire or mentor us, but I choose whether to receive and use the inspiration which I always eventually recognize as coming from within myself. Obviously 'loss' is at the root of my work but only in the initial writing stage and merely changes shape and vocabularies among the pieces. Scribbling down a diatribe of anger or pain does nothing for me, and definitely does not produce poetry. However, scribbling down such and sending it to a real person does help at times.

I think except for a couple poems on Lit. I wrote a first draft for each without thinking or goal; just got basic words and ideas down. Then the fun begins for me. I rewrite and revise many drafts over, I'd guess 20 to 30 over a period of weeks is the average. I have to leave them alone for weeks too, then return to the process of revising at a newer distance. Basically when I get to simply moving commas and line breaks around I figure it's finished though I know it may change if I leave it another month or year.

I've been reading all sorts of poetry for about 40 years, writing for about 30 and I think it shows. I learned a lot from Yeats in my 20s, and other sources I've drawn on are too numerous to name here but include more than English or American poets.

I don't know that I even believe in 'the unconscious' anymore. It's a good and handy term but there is little in my dreams or stream of consciousness at my age that differs from reality or my waking self awareness. Language is my reality and I love the English best. I hope that comes through in my work.

regards to all, Perdita

 

[Maria2394]

inspiration and muses

Sometimes, when I least expect it, an idea will pop into my head, and it transforms itself into a poem ( or a story) with very little *coerced*help from me. Usually these quickies turn out to be my best work till later, Maria

 

[Guest]

Maria, see this is what I don't like and refuse to accept; e.g., your diffidence. You may see it as you've expressed, but YOU do the work, even w/less 'work' than I am used to. YOU write your poems, not some ephemeral thingy popping into your head. YOU are the transformer, you are the creator, the poet, the writer. Please give yourself credit, it's a fine thing to do.

with affection and admiration, Perdita

 

[Cloudbrst9]

[delete]

 

[Guest]

Cloudburst angel:

There is nothing you write above that disturbs me, but if I disturbed you I am sincerely contrite. I try to be concise, even terse, so as not to waste time (mine or a reader's) but perhaps I was too blunt.

What you've written is profound and poetic; your words move, like poetry. At any rate, I thank you for all your lovely feedback and the poetic praise included above.

Calmate, niña de mi corazón. . .

con mucho cariño, Perdita

 

[Cloudbrst9]

Re: Cloudburst angel:

[delete]

 

[Angeline]

Musing on My Muse

Would I know my muse if she spoke to me?
Would I learn only that she shares my name,
Or keeps my mirror silent company?
Is belief poet's faith or blind fool's game?

Some poems rush forth much like a waterfall,
While others weep out slowly tear by word.
I've never listened for a muse to call,
but simply written what my mind's ear heard.

And yet my heart knows there is more to world
Than what my pen can write or eyes can see.
If my subconscious cannot be unfurled,
It matters not: the end's still poetry.

I embrace all my words that once begun
Result in poems where mind and muse are one.




~A.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

There is only one way to write poetry and that is what I say it is. All else is crap and all other people poseurs, pusilanimous poetasters.

And by the way, poetry is what I say it is, and the good poets are the ones I--not you--like. I am smarter, know more literary terms, am more refined, more educated, and more intimidating.

Poems--like any form of art--can be compared to one another like lengths of rope or bathing beauties and one obvious best poem can be selected. Rhyming and structured poetry is always better than non-structured poetry.

Likewise, poets can be compared, and there is One Best All-Time Poetry Champ. (In fact, we can rank all poets and give them little numbers on the Best Poets list. You of course rank lower than me.) By tracing the history of poetry we can clearly see the degeneration of the art into what passes for poetry today.

Since I am not writing poetry at the moment, nothing Really Good is being written.

The sun, the planets, and the fixed stars circle me and my ideas in a never-ending hymn of glory. They are all piloted by little men in monkey suits. I don;t have to pay them; they do it it gratis.


------------------------------------------

As for poems fully developed versus hammering away: some school of Tibetan Buddhism believes that the brain is not the source of thought, rather it is a sense organ, like our eyes and ears. But what the brain senses are bits of an ocean of ideas, impressions, feelings, and sensations that exist outside of ouselves in a vast and infinite continuum containing all that can ever be. Some of us sense some things, some of us sense other things, but it's all out there, and it belongs to all of us. We swim in this continuum like fishes in the sea. What we think of as ourselves is no more than that little slice of the continuum our own brain is able to perceive. When we die, we just lose our focus. The continuum always exists.

I like this picture of things. It explains a lot to me. It tells us that everything is out there, that creating something is no more than discovering it and chipping away the junk that makes it hard to see.

But then what do Tibetans know?

---dr.M.

 

[Cloudbrst9]

[delete]

 

[Cloudbrst9]

[delete]

 

[Elron]

dr. m


writing is being, nothing more, nothing less
to find the answer within
surely to digress

a simple thought plain and true
a flower on the wall
a bridge burning in the fire
a dank and dreary hall

writing is being, nothing more, nothing less

to answer your question it just flows

 

[dr_mabeuse]

dr. m


writing is being, nothing more, nothing less
to find the answer within
surely to digress

a simple thought plain and true
a flower on the wall
a bridge burning in the fire
a dank and dreary hall

writing is being, nothing more, nothing less

to answer your question it just flows

Well, I don't know. I hate to be a pain in the ass, and I appreciate the popetic reply, but a rock or a bottle of beer have being yet neither of them are writing as far as I can tell. So I would say that writing is more than being.

That means that the first line in your own poem may be plain, but it's not true.


---dr.M.

 

[Rybka]

Well, I don't know. I hate to be a pain in the ass, and I appreciate the popetic reply, but a rock or a bottle of beer have being yet neither of them are writing as far as I can tell. So I would say that writing is more than being.
That means that the first line in your own poem may be plain, but it's not true.

---dr.M.

What did the Pope say about all of this? I must have missed it.
A bottle of 'Rock beer', I understand!

 

[Elron]

I would disagree with you, how can writing really be any more? If taken at it's simplest, why should we need it to be more?

Surely I lack your wisdom and bullshit, but in the end does it really matter?

Writing is being, a rock can be nothing more than a rock, a beer nothing more than a headache. Writing can be anything we choose it to.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Oops! My mistake!

You're right: writing is being and being is writing. How could I have failed to notice it?

I stand corrected, and thanks for clearing that up for me. I was under the impression that writing was different from merely being, and that somehow in the end it did matter, but now I see where I went wrong.

Many thanks


---dr.M.

 

[Elron]

I find it hard to believe that someone who has such a gift with sarcasim has hard time writing anything.

And thank you it's been fun

Of course there is always a chance that neither opinion is the correct one, and if that is the case. Fuck it, it really doesn't matter

Elron

 

[Maria2394]

continuum of things

focus. The continuum always exists.

I like this picture of things. It explains a lot to me. It tells us that everything is out there, that creating something is no more than discovering it and chipping away the junk that makes it hard to see.

But then what do Tibetans know?

---dr.M. [/B]

I like this picture of things too, dr M its always what I thought too...does that mean I might be Tibetan in another life? kewl maria

 

[Angeline]

I dunno, maybe it's me--but if writing and beer bottles and rocks are all the same as being, shouldn't we all just y'know chill or groove or something? And, if writing is *more" than being, shouldn't we all just uh chill or groove or something anyway?

Check these definitions.

1 a : to equal in meaning : have the same connotation as : SYMBOLIZE <God is love> <January is the first month> <let x be 10>

2 a : to have an objective existence : have reality or actuality : LIVE <I think, therefore I am> <once upon a time there was a knight>

Sounds semantical-like to me. BTW, have you seen my one-letter zen poem: B

 

[darkmaas]

Lightness of being

one bee
two bee
may bee
there oughta bee
a law

too bee
or not too bee
is it really
poet tree?

i see
tibetan bee
cartesian bee
kewl bee
angel bee
mabee
no ceebee?

deemaas

 

[The_Fool]

Someone please help out the literary challenged. When I first saw this thread, I was reminded of a comment on Thomas Gray's "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard." Someone told me he wrote this poem during the short span of 10 years. Yes? No?

 

[Maria2394]

Re: Lightness of being

one bee
two bee
may bee
there oughta bee
a law

too bee
or not too bee
is it really
poet tree?

i see
tibetan bee
cartesian bee
kewl bee
angel bee
mabee
no ceebee?

deemaas

this is adorable!!!

 

[Angeline]

this is adorable!!!

He'll kill me for this, lol, but he's a sweetheart, isn't he? Sorry, darkmaas babe, but I think you are.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Someone please help out the literary challenged. When I first saw this thread, I was reminded of a comment on Thomas Gray's "Elegy Written in a Country Churchyard." Someone told me he wrote this poem during the short span of 10 years. Yes? No?

I could believe it.

Not to compare myself with Gray or anyone else, but I don;t know if I've ever written anything that I considered "finished", and I could see tinkering with a piece like the "Elegy" almost forever.

There was a painter, an American eccentric whose name (I think) was Ryder who also never finished anything. Even after his paintings were sold he would call up the owner and try to talk them into letting him do a few extra touch-ups or change a few things.

I understand that a lot of painters work this way: that the piece is done when they get tired of working on it.

How else do you tell when a piece is "done'?


---dr.M.