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Yet another ratings thread... or is it?

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NoTalentHack said:
So I don't particularly care about ratings--I mean, not as anything except a rough metric--but I will say this about Stacnash: they got banned from the forums, as did a very obvious alt of Tilan's, about the same time Tilan's main account went radio-silent. I'm not privy to the system, but given that I had accused Stacnash of being a sockpuppet meant to stir up shit, and the blessed silence of the last couple of weeks... well, I'll let you draw your own conclusions. Clearly the mods did.
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Just for the record, I received a very positive review on one on of my stories from Stacnash, after both they and Tilan were banned from the forum.
 
MelissaBaby said:
Just for the record, I received a very positive review on one on of my stories from Stacnash, after both they and Tilan were banned from the forum.
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Stacnash was banned from the forum, but not the site. It happened at the same day/time as the other alt (Habit something?) got nuked and Tilan went silent, which was after... someone *cough* went through and reported/documented all the evidence that certain accounts might be sockpuppets to the mods.
 
MelissaBaby said:
Just for the record, I received a very positive review on one on of my stories from Stacnash, after both they and Tilan were banned from the forum.
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LC said he received a negative review from Stacnash after the ban too. Apparently banning from the forums does not effect the other-side of the site? Who knew?

I was told that Stacnash said something mean about me, but I never saw it. Also Tilan called me a psycho, but that just seemed like Tilan being Tilan. I'm honestly surprised either of them got in trouble.
 
SimonDoom said:
It's not unfair in the same way. I've long been an advocate for changing the way chaptered stories are included in story rankings, and the Site has indicated that it intends to change that. The key point is that this change will not be unfair to authors AND it will not deter readers from voting OR from using the Site's lists to find stories effectively.

There's nothing obviously unfair about including long and short stories. The Site has to be practical. Too many lists and rankings just confuses things. What's a short story? What's a long story? How does one decide?

But allowing authors who've deleted all their anonymous votes to compete with authors who have not is unfair on a whole different level. The problem then is that one author group is selecting a different voting pool from the other group. That transparently makes no sense.

Regardless, isn't it obvious that this is spitting into the wind? What you propose is never going to happen. And it's not just that the Site is being capricious or dismissive. I think most authors are not on your side. They either actively disagree with you (like me) or don't care (like most, I reckon). Putting aside your own personal point of view, from the Site's point of view there's no reason to do this. It won't achieve a benefit for the Site.
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I don't intend to brag here, so I hope no one takes this wrong, but I've got about two dozen stories on the Top Lists. If they were to be pushed off the list because other authors get higher scores by limiting their voter pool, I'd seriously consider pulling up stakes and moving on from the site.
 
NoTalentHack said:
Stacnash was banned from the forum, but not the site. It happened at the same day/time as the other alt (Habit something?) got nuked and Tilan went silent, which was after... someone *cough* went through and reported/documented all the evidence that certain accounts might be sockpuppets to the mods.
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I'm drawing no conclusions, just offering a data point. Although, Tilan showed me nothing but loathing, so I admit to some skepticism that Stacnash was their sock puppet.

Also, I don't think there is actually a rule against sock puppets.
 
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MelissaBaby said:
I'm drawing no conclusions, just offering a date point. Although, Tilan showed me nothing but loathing, so I admit to some skepticism that Stacnash was their sock puppet.

Also, I don't think there is actually a rule against sock puppets.
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I think the rule is against using sock puppets to troll, which Tilan was (allegedly) doing
 
I confess I am confused. The proposed solution to feeling of lack of engagement from readers is to silence the principal way in which most readers engage with the author? I get the impression that typically somewhere between 75%-90% of the votes tallied are from anonymous users. It seems counterproductive to establish an additional hurdle for people to who choose to leave some feedback, even if it's in the form of an impersonal and largely uninformative numerical rating, while also lamenting how little feedback is offered.
 
MelissaBaby said:
I'm drawing no conclusions, just offering a date point. Although, Tilan showed me nothing but loathing, so I admit to some skepticism that Stacnash was their sock puppet.

Also, I don't think there is actually a rule against sock puppets.
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There's not a rule against alt accounts; there is a rule against using them in a way that's sockpuppet-y. That is, I have my DomBombadil account, and I don't pretend it's a completely new user, I don't use it to react to NTH's posts or improve NTH's ratings, etc. I don't use it to "amplify" NTH's points in the forums to give an impression that an idea is more popular (or a user is more under attack) than it actually is.

I don't want to go too in-depth on the evidence for it, because some of it is things that I used to identify a further one later that got banned after being reported, but there were certain attributes that made them VERY obviously not "real" accounts that got fixed rapidly when they were called out. But there were certain things that couldn't be fixed, either. Again, don't want to get too specific, but... yeah.
 
KeithD said:
I think that (and the OP) is a little harsh on the readers. There's no requirement here for the readers to vote or comment on a story just because that's what authors would like to happen.
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I don't disagree. I'm trying to get to the bottom of @AwkwardlySet 's view of readers. Initially he says he "criticizes" them, then he clarified and pointed out that he was trying to do something more like "inform" them. My point is that few of them are reading this thread, therefore his comments about them are probably misplaced here.

I value the fact that it's easy for readers to comment, vote, email, or none of these. I personally don't think they owe us anything. I'm grateful for attention from them, and I like success, but that's not predominantly why I'm posting stories here.

AwkwardlySet said:
But not if we let anonymous people vote? ;)
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We can turn off voting whenever we wish. That's within our control.

I think it boils down to this: the present system is crude, but it's simple and easy to understand. Every "fix" to that system that gets proposed, such as this one, is probably well-meaning and might even be well-thought-out... but it complicates things. I think Laurel wants to keep things as uncomplicated as possible. I think the current system, as opaque as some aspects of it may be, is consistent enough that all of us know how to work with it, and within it.

Full disclosure: I too got a positive review from Stacnash, but I promptly told her/him/them that I didn't approve of the way they were brandishing their reviewing power. I said this both publicly and privately.
 
MediocreAuthor said:
The mod replaced Tilan's original post with the featured text. Idk

View attachment 2264206
I guess the crime was trolling more than creating an account... But that's where I got my idea
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I think you are right, it's the creation of the account to harass others that is the offense, not merely being a sock puppet. I suspect most sock puppets are created to support the creator, or just for fun.
 
Also, remember that the forum rules are declarative, not necessarily all-inclusive. They're "these will get you banned," but not "these are the only things that will get you banned."
 
Are we certain some users don't have a banning fetish? Like, a really specific type of masochism? Digital whipping?
 
@AwkwardlySet

While I respect your feelings, I'm truly confused.

Looking over your library, your lowest rated story is a 4.55. The rest average between 4.7 - 4.8.

Those are AMAZING ratings, and incredibly consistent.

From the way you described things, I'd thought I'd see a list of stories all in the low 4's with no Red H.

There are hundreds of authors here who'd beg for scores like those.

You're really gonna let a few trolls get to you like that?

Why take the stories down? Rewrite and re-edit them if you see need for improvement, sure.

But to take them down completely because of a few one bombs that still leave you with amazing ratings confuses me.
 
Wherever you go in life, work, out to dinner or a movie, sooner or later, you'll have to deal with boorish behavior. Lit is no different. Are you going to stop working or going out because someone's an asshat?

Nope, didn't think so.
 
Djmac1031 said:
@AwkwardlySet

While I respect your feelings, I'm truly confused.

Looking over your library, your lowest rated story is a 4.55. The rest average between 4.7 - 4.8.

Those are AMAZING ratings, and incredibly consistent.

From the way you described things, I'd thought I'd see a list of stories all in the low 4's with no Red H.

There are hundreds of authors here who'd beg for scores like those.

You're really gonna let a few trolls get to you like that?

Why take the stories down? Rewrite and re-edit them if you see need for improvement, sure.

But to take them down completely because of a few one bombs that still leave you with amazing ratings confuses me.
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I have already said I am doing it to get rid of some things that are pressing down on my motivation, to clear my mind, so to speak. The mistakes in my older stories, the lack of feedback... among other things, those are the issues I want to tackle. This was never about ratings. None of my reasoning behind pulling down my stories is about ratings. I merely used the opportunity to pitch an idea that would in my opinion prevent malicious influence through those same ratings. I acknowledge some of the concerns about that idea. When someone votes 1* on your story not because your story sucked or because your story was disliked, but in order to inflict damage to its perceived worth in the eyes of readers then the negativity of it affects me to a degree. In normal circumstances, it probably wouldn't bother me, but when you are already unmotivated it doesn't help. But it is still a minor thing in comparison to these other things I mentioned.

Voboy said he isn't in all this to get feedback. I can understand that. I am not entirely sure why I am in all of this - for a variety of reasons, I suppose, but I think some nice feedback is one of them. I am not in it for any financial gain. Not all of us are the same. But sure as hell this isn't about ratings for me. I am pretty sure I said a million times that I don't consider them a measure of story's quality or author's quality. I do want some meaningful feedback about my story and my writing though. That is a big motivator for me. Ratings are a minor thing from that particular point of view.
 
AwkwardlySet said:
I have already said I am doing it to get rid of some things that are pressing down on my motivation, to clear my mind, so to speak. The mistakes in my older stories, the lack of feedback... among other things, those are the issues I want to tackle. This was never about ratings. None of my reasoning behind pulling down my stories is about ratings. I merely used the opportunity to pitch an idea that would in my opinion prevent malicious influence through those same ratings. I acknowledge some of the concerns about that idea. When someone votes 1* on your story not because your story sucked or because your story was disliked, but in order to inflict damage to its perceived worth in the eyes of readers then the negativity of it affects me to a degree. In normal circumstances, it probably wouldn't bother me, but when you are already unmotivated it doesn't help. But it is still a minor thing in comparison to these other things I mentioned.

Voboy said he isn't in all this to get feedback. I can understand that. I am not entirely sure why I am in all of this - for a variety of reasons, I suppose, but I think some nice feedback is one of them. I am not in it for any financial gain. Not all of us are the same. But sure as hell this isn't about ratings for me. I am pretty sure I said a million times that I don't consider them a measure of story's quality or author's quality. I do want some meaningful feedback about my story and my writing though. That is a big motivator for me. Ratings are a minor thing from that particular point of view.
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Fair enough.

That said, wouldn't it be easier to simply rewrite your stories and resubmit, instead of starting from scratch?
 
MillieDynamite said:
Well, he's been gone at least two times before.
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His account is still around, but the last post is from two weeks ago. He also posted a threatening comment on his Quote of the Day post from an alt a day later; both the post and that alt have since been deleted.
 
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