Your Political Affiliation

[Marquis]

Although, I thought it was even more recent than that.

 

[BogartSlap]

off topic

Just curious, if anyone has any thoughts to share on this...

It doesn't surprise me that suicide rates are exceptionally high in the homosexual population. The overwhelming majority of "gay"(an incredibly ironic misnomer) people I have known well were, at heart, very sad people. What's interesting though, is that while that was true, it was simultaneously true that the overwhelming majority of them were way-more-than-normally NICE people, exceptionally friendly, compassionate, etc., as compared to my heterosexual friends.
Anyone have, care to share, any insight on this paradoxical situation? Thanks, in advance.

 

[Netzach]

Just curious, if anyone has any thoughts to share on this...

It doesn't surprise me that suicide rates are exceptionally high in the homosexual population. The overwhelming majority of "gay"(an incredibly ironic misnomer) people I have known well were, at heart, very sad people. What's interesting though, is that while that was true, it was simultaneously true that the overwhelming majority of them were way-more-than-normally NICE people, exceptionally friendly, compassionate, etc., as compared to my heterosexual friends.
Anyone have, care to share, any insight on this paradoxical situation? Thanks, in advance.

Awww, some of your best friends are, huh?

It's possible that:

1. we save our complete contempt for you when you leave the room, as you do for us.

2. we're over it, we realize that most people are hated for something or some other thing and we try and treat people better than we've been treated

3. we're hoping to appeal to common sense and decency by being decent people and hoping that this doesn't land us on a chain link fence


As for why we're so sad and alcoholic (how 1950's have you ever ventured out in the last 50 years?) It isn't possible that the repression, persecution, violence and hate that we face on a daily basis might affect our psyche. Just be happy we're a community that internalizes as much as we do.

 

[Netzach]

Pray tell, what is that you have to look over your shoulder for, or hide in a closet about? I haven't seen the Gestapo kicking down any doors of kinky people lately, dragging them out into the street, and loading them onto the concentration camp express buses. Now, if you're looking for a guarantee that your chosen lifestyle will be perfectly safe from either public or private excoriation, that's just an unrealistic expectation - this ain't Utopia, and we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto. One makes one's choices, and accepts the consequences thereof, and any rational person ought to know that if some of their choices are a significant departure from "the norm" (in any arena, not just sexual), then that's likely to complicate their existence.

Yeah, how about my neighbors ducking frat boys and baseball bats as a weekend sport? Nothing to do with our values. Is that an acceptable "consequence" of who YOU fuck?

 

[Netzach]

Most all paranoia is unfounded in the average individual but try and recall that though feelings are not always fact...they are valid.

You would do well to embrase the thoughts of others as well as your own.

d

Any reality that deviates from middle class straight white male is characterised as mentally ill. It's women, any other ethnicity or race, and queers, poor people. Any of the behaviors your learn to navigate the world are neuroses, any of the problems you have are fundamental personal flaws and not indicative of flaws in the culture you live in.

When "the thoughts of others" are dismissed as inherently inferior, why would anyone listen to them?

I'm well aware of accusations of paranoia as a Jew. And then I take a road trip through Wisconsin and I'm greeted with swakstika graffiti all over the place. Still paranoid. Obviously those nice young boys are trying to make it into a hospitality symbol again.

 

[BogartSlap]

over the top

And then I take a road trip through Wisconsin and I'm greeted with swakstika graffiti all over the place. Still paranoid. Obviously those nice young boys are trying to make it into a hospitality symbol again.

"all over the place"? Gee, that wouldn't smack just a little bit of hyperbole, would it?

 

[Netzach]

"all over the place"? Gee, that wouldn't smack just a little bit of hyperbole, would it?

Ah, yes, my bad. They refrained from covering every edifice and kept it clear that they don't want heebs by the railroad tracks.

 

[BogartSlap]

other reasons

Yeah, how about my neighbors ducking frat boys and baseball bats as a weekend sport? Nothing to do with our values. Is that an acceptable "consequence" of who YOU fuck?

Frat guys always seemed to find some other reason to come charging at me with baseball bats.
Helpful hint: If you fire a couple of warning shots into the two guys in the lead...they probably won't bother you much after that.

 

[Netzach]

Frat guys always seemed to find some other reason to come charging at me with baseball bats.
Helpful hint: If you fire a couple of warning shots into the two guys in the lead...they probably won't bother you much after that.

Cool. I'd really like to trade up to a neighborhood with gunfire. It'd make the bar scene more exciting.

I also strongly doubt that "let's go into the 'hood and kick some Allan Bloomesque neocon ass" is a rallying cry.

Disclaimer: I don't think the people who beat up a fag because he's a fag deserve more time than the people who beat up an asshole who scratched their SUV because he's an asshole. I'm not a fan of that. I do think, however these motives might want to be noted.

 

[BogartSlap]

nice

"

Awww, some of your best friends are, huh?"

Not so much now, but at one time it just kind of worked out that a lot of the people I went drinking regularly with were gay...might have had something to do with the fact that the best bar in town was a gay bar.

"It's possible that:
1. we save our complete contempt for you when you leave the room, as you do for us."

It's theoretically a possibility, but that wasn't the fact of the situation. Point one.
Point two - I don't generally hold people in contempt (except maybe Frank Rich of the NY Times). Nor do I, as you seem to suggest above, adopt one attitude when with people, and another behind their back, so to speak. When my friends who are homosexual ask me my honest opinion on the issue, I speak just as straightforwardly as I have here. More than one of them has expressed that they appreciate my honesty - and all of them clearly understand that my opinion of their sexual choices in no way translates into having an attitude of contempt toward them as people.

"2. we're over it, we realize that most people are hated for something or some other thing and we try and treat people better than we've been treated"

Now there's a thought. That may well go a long way toward explaining it.

"3. we're hoping to appeal to common sense and decency by being decent people and hoping that this doesn't land us on a chain link fence"

Hm...sort of a calculated public posture?

"As for why we're so sad and alcoholic (how 1950's have you ever ventured out in the last 50 years?) It isn't possible that the repression, persecution, violence and hate that we face on a daily basis might affect our psyche."

Again, it's a theoretical possibility, but the majority of studies on homosexuality and suicide and/or depression have concluded that actual and/or perceived social persecution does NOT account for the vast majority of cases of clinical depression, substance abuse, or suicide in the homosexual community.

 

[Netzach]

Again, it's a theoretical possibility, but the majority of studies on homosexuality and suicide and/or depression have concluded that actual and/or perceived social persecution does NOT account for the vast majority of cases of clinical depression, substance abuse, or suicide in the homosexual community.

The vast majority of the vast number of studies you've read? That's funny, as almost all the data I've encountered shows that the GLBT depressive is likely to have familiy of origin issues specific to being queer.

Unless there's something you're not sharing you care even more than I do about studies on homos for reasons I can't fathom.

 

[Alistunut]

Unless there's something you're not sharing you care even more than I do about studies on homos for reasons I can't fathom.

I find it really ironic that health issues are being brought up by people arguing against gay marriage.

I moved to Manhattan as a young adult in 1984. Back then, AIDS was the "gay disease" and hardly anybody outside of NY was even paying attention.

Local NYC TV news would show interviews with the neighbors of heroin addicts shaking their heads and talking about God's punishment for the wicked. But down in the Village, the reporters found activists handing out pamphlets and condoms and organizing clinics as fast as they possibly could.

I remember thinking how surreal it felt to see so many people getting sick and even dying, when the Federal government just sat on its hands. Especially since around the same time a couple dozen women died of toxic shock syndrome and all of a sudden every GYN in the nation was handing out pamphlets on the subject. There were public health announcements all over the place on TV, radio, buses and trains.

But AIDS was for gays and drug users and the public at large just didn't care.

It wasn't until Rock Hudson announced that he had AIDs that people finally started to pay attention, but even that mostly had to do with the fact that he had been filmed kissing Linda Evans the prior year on Dynasty. Everybody suddenly developed a salacious interest in how the disease was transmitted. It wasn't until hetero-stud Magic Johnson was diagnosed that most people really sat up and took notice.

I would welcome a respectful one-on-one conversation with someone who truly, belief system dogma aside, feels that my marriage, it there were one, to a man would seriously threaten their male/female marriage.

I honestly do not understand that argument.

I accept that many are yucked-out about what we might be doing in our bedroom. I know that many see gays as "less-then" people. I know society must nurture systems for population replacement and child development/training.

But how is it different if two men not-at-all into BDSM get hitched and a 60+ year-old male and female into golden-showers get hitched. There will probably be no pregnancy to help with population replacement and I expect many in our society see golden-showers as yucky (some present company excluded). If the old kinksters can wed, why not the fags? I do not understand, well I don't understand if there is no so-called "moral" judgments being made.

I don't know very many ultra-religious people, but I do unfortunately know a lot of people who are "yucked-out" about the idea of gay sex. These people say they are worried that if the government legalizes gay marriage then that will "send a message" to children that it is OK to be gay.

They are worried about the spread of the "gay disease" but this time they don't mean AIDS. They mean being gay itself.

 

[BogartSlap]

notes

"

I find it really ironic that health issues are being brought up by people arguing against gay marriage."

Perhaps ironic, but a legitimate concern nonetheless. As Canada moved toward legalizing homosexual marriage, a large panel of doctors submitted a report to the government expressing that very concern and pointing out, among other things, that a number of serious diseases are rampant among homosexuals, while being virtually non-existent in the rest of the population.

"I moved to Manhattan as a young adult in 1984. Back then, AIDS was the "gay disease" and hardly anybody outside of NY was even paying attention."

That may have been your perception at the time, but it's a less than accurate historical picture. Just for openers, trust me, there were a few people in San Francisco paying attention long before anyone in the City ever heard of AIDS.

"I remember thinking how surreal it felt to see so many people getting sick and even dying, when the Federal government just sat on its hands."

Of course, once the federal government got going, a ridiculously disproportionate amount of money was, has been, and still is, spent on a disease that affects only a very small fraction of the population, as compared to things like diabetes and cancer.

"But AIDS was for gays and drug users..."

Still is, pretty much - you subtract gays, IV drug users, and people who've had sex with gays or IV drug users, and you've eliminated somewhere between 90 and 99 per cent of all AIDS cases.

"I don't know very many ultra-religious people, but I do unfortunately know a lot of people who are "yucked-out" about the idea of gay sex."

Well, what can I say? Indeed, rather than thinking, "What a pretty picture", some people just get a bit queasy at the mental image of one guy shoving his dick up another guy's hairy butt. (Go figure, huh?)

"These people say they are worried that if the government legalizes gay marriage then that will "send a message" to children that it is OK to be gay."

I think that horse left the barn about a decade or so ago, as most sex-ed programs in public schools have been falling all over themselves trying to tell children that not only is it "okay" to be gay - it's just downright peachy-keen wonderful! (Hell, you should probably feel unfortunate if you're straight.)

Anyway, thanks for adding your comments to the board.

 

[Shankara20]

"What a pretty picture", some people just get a bit queasy at the mental image of one guy shoving his dick up another guy's hairy butt. (Go figure, huh?)

one more reason I shave mine......

 

[Marquis]

As an attractive young male in Fort Lauderdale, I have to say it's pretty unfortunate to be straight.

 

[BogartSlap]

okay, I can't resist

These people say they are worried that if the government legalizes gay marriage then that will "send a message" to children that it is OK to be gay. They are worried about the spread of the "gay disease" but this time they don't mean AIDS. They mean being gay itself.

And, I take it you don't consider their concern to be a legitimate one?

dangling the bait,
Jack

 

[BogartSlap]

move to Frisco

As an attractive young male in Fort Lauderdale, I have to say it's pretty unfortunate to be straight.

Hey, try hanging out in San Francisco - you'll damn near be an oppressed minority!

 

[BogartSlap]

things you never wanted to know

one more reason I shave mine......

Shank - Thanks for sharing. I will be sure to file this properly under "information I never really wanted to be privy to".

 

[Shankara20]

Shank - Thanks for sharing. I will be sure to file this properly under "information I never really wanted to be privy to".

your welcome -

just one of my continual nonconsensual public services

 

[BogartSlap]

someone has to

your welcome -
just one of my continual nonconsensual public services

It's a tough job, but someone has to shoulder the responsibility - thanks for stepping up.

 

[BogartSlap]

Okay, this is just funny

...so I thought I'd share it - Just got a junk email with the subject line, "Get a diploma without the HASSEL" (emphasis added)
Hm...apparently it's not a Master's Degree in Spelling, right?

 

[Alistunut]

Perhaps ironic, but a legitimate concern nonetheless. As Canada moved toward legalizing homosexual marriage, a large panel of doctors submitted a report to the government expressing that very concern and pointing out, among other things, that a number of serious diseases are rampant among homosexuals, while being virtually non-existent in the rest of the population.

I disagree with the idea that health issues are relevant in a discussion of whether gay marriage should be legal.

STD's are a valid argument against sleeping around with everyone else. Are there any as valid resons against homosexual marriages or homosexuality in general?

STD's are a valid argument in support of government funding for extensive education and public awareness campaigns about the risks involved in sexual activity.

STD's are not a valid argument for outlawing pre-marital sex or legislating a maximum number of sexual partners for citizens in the United States.

Well, what can I say? Indeed, rather than thinking, "What a pretty picture", some people just get a bit queasy at the mental image of one guy shoving his dick up another guy's hairy butt. (Go figure, huh?)

I don't understand why people would waste time thinking about sexual activities they find repugnant.

Personally, I get queasy when a man whom I find physically or mentally disgusting makes sexual advances toward me or directs suggestive comments in my direction. But I handle this queasiness by walking away and not thinking about him any more.

It never occurs to me to say that the men whose characteristics and sexual practices I find appealing should be the only ones allowed to get married.

 

[BogartSlap]

"

I disagree with the idea that health issues are relevant in a discussion of whether gay marriage should be legal."

Well, the panel of physicians that compiled a report for the Canadian government addressing that issue disagree with you - specifically stating that a probable consequence of legalizing homosexual marriage would be a significant increase in public health risks.

"STD's are a valid argument in support of government funding for extensive education and public awareness campaigns about the risks involved in sexual activity."

Yeah, and that's worked out just great so far, hasn't it?
Oops - wait a minute - seems that we currently have an epidemic of STDs, despite years of massive public spending on "safe sex" campaigns and education. But what the hell - I'm sure if we just spend ten billion MORE dollars, what hasn't solved the problem at all thus far will somehow magically start working perfectly.

"STD's are not a valid argument for outlawing pre-marital sex or legislating a maximum number of sexual partners for citizens in the United States."

Call me silly, but I'm pretty sure we don't need to lose any sleep over the possibility of looming legislation outlawing pre-marital sex. (It'd be kind of tough to enforce anyway.)

"It never occurs to me to say that the men whose characteristics and sexual practices I find appealing should be the only ones allowed to get married."

Well, amazing as it may appear to you, it still "occurs" to most people that marriage ought to involve a man and a woman. If that thought's really "NEVER" occurred to you, one can only assume that either you have incredible control over your thoughts, or just don't have all that many occurences of thought, period.

 

[BogartSlap]

Just a crazy thought

STD's are a valid argument in support of government funding for extensive education and public awareness campaigns about the risks involved in sexual activity.

You know, for at least 35 years now, people have been insisting, "We need more sex education!". And for that same time period, we have indeed spent ever-increasing billions of dollars providing more sex education. Also over that same time period, STD rates and out-of-wedlock births have soared to levels that dwarf the incidence of those things BEFORE we spent all that money. Just a crazy thought, but gee, is it possible that "spend more money on sex education" isn't the solution?
Nahhh...silly me...forget I mentioned it. Don't know what I was thinking.

 

[gluttonne]

i did not see a poll option for "I'm a dom and (mostly) convinced that most politicians would sell me down the river in a heartbeat. I distrust nearly all politicians roughly regardless of political affiliation."