Your Political Affiliation

[A Desert Rose]

So liberal means liberal in regards to personal freedom and such? Then I voted correctly for me.

No, this is not the whole truth, Chris. Everything in life, including politics, is not so black and white.

There are many conservatives who believe in little or no government control in their businesses and personal lives, i.e. in their bedrooms. There are many conservatives who are pro-choice. There are many conservatives who do not favor an anti-flag burning amendment. There are many conservatives who are in favor of gay marriages. And so on and so on and...

To paint all conservatives, even 'generally speaking', with this kind of broad brush, to make them appear as though they favor laws that infringe on personal freedoms is an incorrect way to present Americans who may claim to be conservative.

For the record, I'm a libertarian.

 

[Netzach]

No, this is not the whole truth, Chris. Everything in life, including politics, is not so black and white.

There are many conservatives who believe in little or no government control in their businesses and personal lives, i.e. in their bedrooms. There are many conservatives who are pro-choice. There are many conservatives who do not favor an anti-flag burning amendment. There are many conservatives who are in favor of gay marriages. And so on and so on and...

To paint all conservatives, even 'generally speaking', with this kind of broad brush, to make them appear as though they favor laws that infringe on personal freedoms is an incorrect way to present Americans who may claim to be conservative.

For the record, I'm a libertarian.

Ok, let's say you're a fiscal conservative. I kind of get it, it's not my bag, but I get it in theory. I get the idea that an ideal society is made up of people intelligent enough to self regulate. (However being Jewish this "just have faith in your neighbor's good judgement" thing seems like a really bad idea when things get tough)

How can you overlook the other shit? The big stinky pile of what the 'pubs are just dying to regulate and legislate away (including your whip weilding weekends, people, hello CWA anyone?) How do you vote republican, have kinky sex in your bedroom and look yourself in the mirror?

I wish I could do it. I could probably kick a puppy and have less tugging at my conscience.

 

[JMohegan]

There are many conservatives who believe in little or no government control in their businesses and personal lives, i.e. in their bedrooms. There are many conservatives who are pro-choice. There are many conservatives who do not favor an anti-flag burning amendment. There are many conservatives who are in favor of gay marriages. And so on and so on and...

To paint all conservatives, even 'generally speaking', with this kind of broad brush, to make them appear as though they favor laws that infringe on personal freedoms is an incorrect way to present Americans who may claim to be conservative.

Which issues are generally associated with conservative politicians?

Anti-gay marriage
Anti-flag burning
Anti-abortion

Right?

I'm trying to think of a personal freedom that I would associate with conservative politicians, and the first one I'm coming up with relates to gun control.

Liberal politicians generally support heavier gun control. Conservative politicians generally resist limitations on the "right to bear arms".

Which personal freedoms do you associate with the policies of conservative politicians, Rose?

 

[A Desert Rose]

Ok, let's say you're a fiscal conservative. I kind of get it, it's not my bag, but I get it in theory. I get the idea that an ideal society is made up of people intelligent enough to self regulate. (However being Jewish this "just have faith in your neighbor's good judgement" thing seems like a really bad idea when things get tough)

How can you overlook the other shit? The big stinky pile of what the 'pubs are just dying to regulate and legislate away (including your whip weilding weekends, people, hello CWA anyone?) How do you vote republican, have kinky sex in your bedroom and look yourself in the mirror?

I wish I could do it. I could probably kick a puppy and have less tugging at my conscience.

I'm sorry Netz. I won't argue or defend mine or anyone's politics with you or anyone else. I made my post. I stand by what I said. I do not believe that everything is as black and white as it has been presented thus far. That's as far as I go with this.

 

[A Desert Rose]

Which issues are generally associated with conservative politicians?

Anti-gay marriage
Anti-flag burning
Anti-abortion

Right?

I'm trying to think of a personal freedom that I would associate with conservative politicians, and the first one I'm coming up with relates to gun control.

Liberal politicians generally support heavier gun control. Conservative politicians generally resist limitations on the "right to bear arms".

Which personal freedoms do you associate with the policies of conservative politicians, Rose?

Read my previous post to Netz.

 

[JMohegan]

Read my previous post to Netz.

My post has nothing to do with arguing politics or defending anyone's viewpoint or painting anything as black and white.

Some of the international members of this board have asked perfectly reasonable questions. What does "conservative" mean in American politics? What does "liberal" mean?

What is your answer to their questions?

 

[A Desert Rose]

My post has nothing to do with arguing politics or defending anyone's viewpoint or painting anything as black and white.

Some of the international members of this board have asked perfectly reasonable questions. What does "conservative" mean in American politics? What does "liberal" mean?

What is your answer to their questions?

You and others can flame and attack me all you want to. I'm not going to engage in this. I made my post. I stand by it.

 

[RJMasters]

Ok, let's say you're a fiscal conservative. I kind of get it, it's not my bag, but I get it in theory. I get the idea that an ideal society is made up of people intelligent enough to self regulate. (However being Jewish this "just have faith in your neighbor's good judgement" thing seems like a really bad idea when things get tough)

How can you overlook the other shit? The big stinky pile of what the 'pubs are just dying to regulate and legislate away (including your whip weilding weekends, people, hello CWA anyone?) How do you vote republican, have kinky sex in your bedroom and look yourself in the mirror?

I wish I could do it. I could probably kick a puppy and have less tugging at my conscience.

I use to wonder the very same thing about liberals.

I find it ironic that liberals know that many people consider abortion as murder or killing, yet they have little problem passing legislation that uses people's tax money to fund programs that support abortion. I guess I can understand why a person might be upset if their governemnt passed laws which use money they take from them as a tax payer to kill people.

As to how the liberals have taken care of the poor. If you see making people dependant upon government programs rather than take personal responsibility as helping then I guess you can make a nice and neat case of it.

Point is whether you are for or against abortion or what your persepctive is as to the best way to help people, both liberals and conservatives do nothing more than push thier own agendas down the throats of other people regardless if it offends them or not. The ones who seem to win in the elections are the ones who can best justify their brand of hypocrasy to the american people.

For the record in many ways I am conservative, but I do support the right of choice. Only I don't feel others should have to be financhialy be responsible nor be forced to particpate by way of legislation in a person making that choice.

The notion that liberals care more for the poor is laughable when all things are considered equal. I am sure that there are liberals who honestly care and want the best for people and do what they think is right to see that happens, but there are many conservatives who also care just as much and to say otherwise isn't a fair representation.

I think its appauling what some conservatives do, but as far as they swing the pendelum in that direction, the liberals are every bit as guilty as swinging it the other way. And neather gives a shit how it affects the other side.

My opinion is that neather really care about the real concepts of respecting freedoms, but pander to those who only see things from their point of view and fuck the rest of the country. that is why we as a nation we are divided and polarized on almost every issue.

The idea that liberals fight for human rights is a fucking joke every bit as much as saying conservatives fight for human rights. Liberals fight for liberal rights and conservatives can just sit down and shut the fuck up whereas the conservative fight for conservative rights and tell the liberals they can sit down and shut the fuck up.

Ain't it grand





Regardless

 

[Netzach]

I guess I can understand why a person might be upset if their governemnt passed laws which use money they take from them as a tax payer to kill people.

Uhuh.

Think about policy of late. Think hard....

of course for some people full term Iraquis aren't people I guess.

 

[JMohegan]

You and others can flame and attack me all you want to. I'm not going to engage in this. I made my post. I stand by it.

It is disingenuous and insulting for you to suggest that I have flamed or attacked you here, or that I would do so in the future.

And I *really* don't appreciate it.

 

[chris9]

I did not mean to start a political debate/discussion/fight with my question...

 

[Netzach]

You and others can flame and attack me all you want to. I'm not going to engage in this. I made my post. I stand by it.

I wasn't flaming. I'm simply amazed at the things people are willing to overlook. I may overlook a lot, but nobody's telling me who I can and can't fuck, love, marry, or associate with, what I can say, and where I can say it.

Those to me, are personal freedoms. Not a 200 dollar check from the feds because they decided they didn't need my cash one year.

 

[A Desert Rose]

It is disingenuous and insulting for you to suggest that I have flamed or attacked you here, or that I would do so in the future.

And I *really* don't appreciate it.

I do not appreciate the tenor of any of your posts to me, either.

I stated my point. You are talking about politics and politicians. I was discussing the average American citizen.

You have attacked me with the tenor of your posts.

 

[Evil_Geoff]

In American politics, "conservative" and "liberal" have absolutely no, and I mean NO objective definitions.

None. The definitions are entirely subjective and often depend on the day of the week and area of policy that one is speaking of, and which political "hot-button" has been recently pushed.

The members of the major political parties in this country espouse policies and directions that are often mutually contradictory, fiscally ruinous, socially stupid, and woefully short-sighted. And this is within their own parties. Add in the competition for votes between the parties and there should be no wonder at all why the public hangs out at the trough and waits for the slop to come gushing down the way.

Politics in this country have become nothing more than popularity contests between who promises the most goodies to their constituents and slings the most entertaining mud on their competitors.

Cynical? Damned right it's cynical. Because it's arguably true. Every now and then we'll elect a "do-gooder", who's all fired up to change the system and fix what's broke. But in the end they almost all become entrenched in the system, puppets of the political machinery they wanted to bring down. And get re-elected because they bring home the political bacon for their constituents.

As always, the public gets exactly the kind of leadership they deserve, the clowns they elect. *sighs* What I wouldn't give for a genuine meritocracy...

But back to the point of the rant... While there are no working objective definitions for the terms, there is one semi-reliable way to determine if a politician is "liberal" or "conservative".

Find out where their time sense is.

"Conservatives" tend to look to the past and see a "Golden Age" that is slipping away in the moral rot of today's society...

"Liberals" tend to see a rosey future with the "Golden Age" just around the corner if we are willing to spend enough to include everyone in the glorious future...

[SIDE NOTE: It's ironic that many "Historical Society" members are politically liberal. They want to "preserve the past" for "future generations"]

The net result is the neither conservatives nor liberals do a very good job on the here and now, and John Q. Public can BOCHICA*.

*Bend Over, 'Cause Here It Comes Again

 

[RJMasters]

You and others can flame and attack me all you want to. I'm not going to engage in this. I made my post. I stand by it.

I think your making alot of sense and expressing it very well.

Nothing is that black and white and if someone says it is they are selling you a bill of goods.

You are a good rep for the libertarians, and I am so sick and tired of of how the other two are constantly trying to fuck the other side out of their rights and freedoms, identifying as a Libertarian is starting to make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Netzach]

I use to wonder the very same thing about liberals.

Pulling it back to my query anyhow, I'm not talking about the poor. I'm not talking about reproductive rights. I'm not talking about foreign policy.


I'm talking about the fact that there are people high on the food chain, quite high, who are pandering to those who are completely, diametrically, virulently opposed to the very existence of people outside the sexuality mainstream. People who would love to see people who don't fit the fascist ideal of the nuclear family ---gone. Just gone. People like me and everyone I care about.

Those people are not normally identified as liberals.

 

[chris9]

Politics seem to be pretty much the same everywhere. But Americans are more extreme than Europeans.

 

[Netzach]

Politics seem to be pretty much the same everywhere. But Americans are more extreme than Europeans.

It's cause you have 5 or 6 different parties to make it really inane and confusing, when it's not spread out it's more like a football match.

 

[chris9]

It's cause you have 5 or 6 different parties to make it really inane and confusing, when it's not spread out it's more like a football match.

Very true. They mix the liberal and conservative and social viewpoints pretty much to their tastes...

 

[Netzach]

Very true. They mix the liberal and conservative and social viewpoints pretty much to their tastes...

I wonder if we'll look kind of like that eventually -- third parties here are still trying to establish footing, and I don't think I'd mind seeing more of a spectrum. I think Europeans aren't as excited about the idea of mixing state and church because of a "been there done that" history, where ours is still being defined. We're still quite young, really.

 

[Chicklet]

I identify as Liberal. I also identify as straight. And submissive. And to a lesser extent, a masochist.

I think the key words here are that these terms are how I identify MYSELF. Who's to say except me the words that define me? If someone came up and said "submissive means that you allow someone else to control you at all times and make no decisions for yourself" is that inaccurate? That's how *they* define my self-given title. It's not how I define it, or identify, but it's a different way to describe a word that I've chosen for myself.

Politics is a lot like that. If you're conservative, it doesn't mean that you always side with the Republicans and the decisions they make, or that you vote for the issues they introduce. And as a Democrat, I don't have to always side with the democrats.

One thing my liberal friends usually flame me for is my feelings about abortion. I'm pro-choice, but I'm very very pro-life personally. That means to me that I'm all for giving the option of abortion to whoever wants one, but on a personal level I would do my best to talk someone out of it, and I would seriously reconsider a relationship with someone who would have an abortion.

I think political debates are best left to the general board, because all that ever comes of them is flaming. I can get along with other people as long as we don't bring up issues I feel extremely one way about. Then it upsets me to hear an argument. And especially online it's SO hard to differentiate (Excuse my spelling if that was wrong) between debate and plain ol' argument.

This poll was for the curiosity of a single individual and it's turned into what reads like attacks on one person after another.

Can we just kill it and move on?

 

[Netzach]

I don't think we've degenerated to that point.

I don't see strong disagreements as flaming, but obviously some people do.

I think the dynamic has devolved to GB when people have decided I'm a doodyhead *because* they disagree and in each subsequent interaction with me they will point out what a vile far left doodyhead I am, and never pass up the chance to do it. And vice-versa.

Although I kind of like the ring of "far-left doodyhead."

 

[Chicklet]

Although I kind of like the ring of "far-left doodyhead."

you should change your title = )

 

[Netzach]

you should change your title = )

great minds

 

[RhiannonLeigh]

There wasn't a good option for me- a currently curious mishmosh of both sides of the power coin, fiscally conservative, socially liberal type person.

Add me to whichever column you feel fits best. LOL

lol... add me to whatever column that is as well