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Your Religion

Noira said:
I'm a non-denominational Christian, and I don't believe that God hates homosexuals more than he hate any other sinner. (shrugs) My beliefs lead me to believe that EVERYONE has sinned. It also led me to the Bible verse that says, paraphrased 'all sin is equal', and hence any Christian who denounces a homosexual is no better than them because they TOO are sinners. Basically, I believe in equality, so no one should have the right to discriminate.

And that's how my religion effects my sexuality.

Incidentially, I'm straight, not bi, just adding in my imput, seeing as I am posting on a site about sex. =P
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I agree with you that all sins are equal in God's eyes. I also believe though that just because of that you can't dismiss them. One should always be looking to better themselves, including always trying to be a non-sinner. While we can't be perfect, it's the pursuit of perfection that really matters.
And I appreciate your opinion, regardless of your preference. :)
 
Like others, all I can tell you is...I believe in God. I was raised to fear him, and I have a serious issue with that now. My issue is actually with those that taught me such a thing. I don't think he wants us to FEAR him.

I hate to sound like a flower child, but I truly believe that being kind to one another is the most important factor in ones life. I have a STRONG belief in Karma. IF anything I fear, it's Karma.

As far as my sexuality...I'm not sure how God feels about it. If he's not okay about it, I think that at LEAST he would understand that when I met this woman, I felt this overwhelming LOVE and I really feel like he brought me to her. I've had terrible relation ships in the past and I think God interjected himself into my life to give me this gift, this love. If I'm wrong, I can live with that. I know when I pass over, he'll know that I tried my best in this world.

I usually steer clear of religious questions, but I think the way you have asked and have been open about your question has made it easier for others to inject their opinions. ;)
Thanks
 
A Theology Rant.

Though I grew up in a Lutheran Church, I would tend to consider myself Agnostic these days. The topic of homosexuality is just one of the many examples of why I have a problem with organized religion. Furthermore (and I wont get too deep here), while I believe there is a damn good chance there is something bigger than all of us... the contradictory teachings not only between different religions and denominations, but even within each individual practice means that statistically speaking, most of us are wrong about our ideology derived from religious beliefs.

There is, however, one common thread between virtually every religious belief. Simply...

Be a good person.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, but this seems to be the ultimate message in nearly every religious sect. For anyone to be a truly good person they must be, at the very least, tolerant of everyone's way of life. That is, so long as they do not harm to others. You must realize that every religion (especially of Judeo-Christian background) was a result of a person/group of people who were intolerant of some portion of what they were being force-fed based on geographical happenstance. So, they broke away and proclaimed this new religion was the "right" way and even convinced others to follow them.

Somewhere along the way, the power-hungry theologians lost track of what they were using religion for. Instead of using it as a way of life and a tangible guideline for moral ideals, it became a way of ruling a large group of people. In order to justify a new religion, it had to be distinguishable from its counterparts. Thus, unique practices and ways of life happened to be unpopular so they were added to the "list of things our God hates" even though they caused no harm to another being (e.g., homosexuality). While not every religion is intolerant of homosexuality, every religion is intolerant of something that has no harmful impact whatsoever on the fallible people judging them. These very same people say God is the only one who can judge them.

The way I see it, if we all disagree, then we are all wrong. Since the only commonality is "Be a good person", it must be the only thing we are all right about. The beliefs themselves are not what are important -- the product of their integration is; and regardless of which god we are faithful to, we are an extraordinary creation -- created by something we should all respect and be grateful for.

While the most important message is the simplest, for some reason it is always metaphorically discussed instead of pragmatically.
 
Wow, rbone04, you just covered it all for me!

I was raised Lutheran, too. Now I'm basically indifferent. I don't even care enough to be bothered to be atheist, seriously. I'm at the point where I feel that religions of all sorts have done humanity more harm that good, but that's just me. ;)

I totally agree about "Be a good person." If people could just understand this--without threats OR rewards in the hereafter or next Tuesday, wouldn't the world be a better place?

I've raised my kids without religion. They know enough about bible stories, etc to have a basis in cultural literacy, but that's the extent of it. The greatest compliments I've ever received are from religious parents who are astounded that they ARE nice kids without ever having been taught religious doctrine. They make me very proud.
 
desertslave said:
Wow, rbone04, you just covered it all for me!

I was raised Lutheran, too. Now I'm basically indifferent. I don't even care enough to be bothered to be atheist, seriously. I'm at the point where I feel that religions of all sorts have done humanity more harm that good, but that's just me. ;)

I totally agree about "Be a good person." If people could just understand this--without threats OR rewards in the hereafter or next Tuesday, wouldn't the world be a better place?

I've raised my kids without religion. They know enough about bible stories, etc to have a basis in cultural literacy, but that's the extent of it. The greatest compliments I've ever received are from religious parents who are astounded that they ARE nice kids without ever having been taught religious doctrine. They make me very proud.
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But, as rbone04 said; there is one thing all religions have in common - to be a good person.

Thus, it's not the religions that cause all of the ills in the world - it is people. Not every person that confesses to adhere to a religious belief actually does so. Either through a lack of true understanding of the religion's teachings or a mean spirited and willful disregard of them, it is people who cause the problems.

In fact, I wonder what kind of society we would have today if it had been shaped void of the Jewish/Christian influence. It's hard to un-mix the clay and truly know the answer, but my personal belief is that mankind is better off for the teachings of religions. Even your own success with raising your children cannot really be separated from your own early religious training. I wonder how your children would have faired in a culture where the love of neighbor was replaced by a belief system that honored the killing of those not in your tribe?

I can envision a world much more harsh than the one we have been raised in here in America. And while there is no doubt that ignorant people have distorted religion throughout the ages - does that mean that religions get no credit for the many good things wrought by them? Was it not Christ who set the world upside down when he declared women to be equal to men! Where would our society be today without that teaching?

No, it's people who are to blame for our ills, not a religious belief. Yes, people twist religion - but so also do they twist virtually everything, whether it be patriotism, nationalism, political beliefs, etc. It is evil people who cause evil in the world. IMO, religions have always tried to somehow restrain mankind's madness. But the most important reason they came to be is to somehow explain the unexplainable spiritual knowing inside of us that there is a Creator.
 
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alaskabibear said:
But, as rbone04 said; there is one thing all religions have in common - to be a good person.

Thus, it's not the religions that cause all of the ills in the world - it is people. Not every person that confesses to adhere to a religious belief actually does so. Either through a lack of true understanding of the religion's teachings or a mean spirited and willful disregard of them, it is people who cause the problems.

In fact, I wonder what kind of society we would have today if it had been shaped void of the Jewish/Christian influence. It's hard to un-mix the clay and truly know the answer, but my personal belief is that mankind is better off for the teachings of religions. Even your own success with raising your children cannot really be separated from your own early religious training. I wonder how your children would have faired in a culture where the love of neighbor was replaced by a belief system that honored the killing of those not in your tribe?

I can envision a world much more harsh than the one we have been raised in here in America. And while there is no doubt that ignorant people have distorted religion throughout the ages - does that mean that religions get no credit for the many good things wrought by them? Was it not Christ who set the world upside down when he declared women to be equal to men! Where would our society be today without that teaching?

No, it's people who are to blame for our ills, not a religious belief. Yes, people twist religion - but so also do they twist virtually everything, whether it be patriotism, nationalism, political beliefs, etc. It is evil people who cause evil in the world. IMO, religions have always tried to somehow restrain mankind's madness. But the most important reason they came to be is to somehow explain the unexplainable spiritual knowing inside of us that there is a Creator.
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I kind of agree with most of what you are saying. I do think there are things within religions that in an of themselves seem unnatural -- namely those that have some kind of ideal that you must have living sacrifices in order to make things right. Perhaps that is just me. Yes life/death seems to be a cycle, but I would think any deity would not need something live to be prematurely killed for his/her pleasure.

Excluding such weird concepts that pop up on religions, I do agree that usually the religion's tenants are noble but that some of the practitioners are the ones that distort it into something that is oppressive or destructive to others of that religion and/or people who do not follow that religion.

I do think that for most human beings there is something within us that compels us to seek answers to the fundamental mysteries of life.

How did we get here?
What is our purpose?
What happens after we die?

There is a belief that faith in something beyond our senses that we can prove is contradictory to scientific discovery. I don't believe that. Religions do fail when they are not open to what scientific evidence has unveiled -- especially when it contradicts some of the belief systems. However, not everybody within a religious belief system takes everything their religion states as statement of fact. Of course I'm most familiar with those issues that have come up with Christianity over the centuries:

1) Whether the earth is round or flat.
2) Whether the earth is the "center" of the universe.
3) Whether the earth was created in 7 24 hour days or not.
3) Whether humans evolved from other animals or were created.

My on feelings is that yes there is a creator and he gave us brains to uncover whatever we can. I don't feel like I have to be an atheist to discover things that may go against organized teachings. If, for instance, my faith is so shaky that if science proves that the world was created over millions of years instead of 7 24 hour days, then I didn't have much of a faith in the first place.

I was raised primarily by my grandma. She died 3 months short of 100 in Nov of 2003. When she died, I went through a real crisis of faith. Somehow I thought there would be some inner peace that she had some other existence somewhere beyond my understanding where someday I may see her again. I didn't feel that. I felt absolutely nothing. If at any time I could have said I'm an atheist, it was then. However, I then realized I was being a bit arrogant. Who was I, that I was so important that whatever exists out there would make sure that I knew for sure that there was an afterlife and that my grandma was there now. I'm like everybody else, I won't know about an afterlife until it is my turn to die -- just like it has been since the beginning of life as we know it. It also seemed such a waste to me to think that our thoughts just fade away into nothingness after life ends.

In the US, there is a big debate over "intelligent design" and how it should be taught in schools. It basically is about stating that the universe is too complicated to understand and that thus there must be some "intelligent design" (code word for God) that is responsible for creation. I don't agree with that idea and I see it more as a political move. To me "ID" comes across as people wanting to push their religion under a guise of being "science". Science should always strive to uncover factual evidence -- not what we "wish" to be true. Just because something seems complex doesn't mean that 10 years down the line scientific progress will have a way of solving another riddle...

That being said, I guess except for the politics of "ID" that i oppose, I'm probably somewhat of that mindset. There is so much beauty in the universe for me to think that it is all just randomness of events.

I don't think I'm alone. I think most spend their lives wondering about the mysteries of life. Whether we just sit back and accept verbatim what the church of our upbringing told us, or we use science to try to figure some of it out. The fact that we have this desire makes me think that something out there created us and wants us to seek him/her/it out and that our religions or scientifc enquiry are a means to that end.
 
none2_none2 said:
I kind of agree with most of what you are saying. I do think there are things within religions that in an of themselves seem unnatural -- namely those that have some kind of ideal that you must have living sacrifices in order to make things right. Perhaps that is just me. Yes life/death seems to be a cycle, but I would think any deity would not need something live to be prematurely killed for his/her pleasure.

Excluding such weird concepts that pop up on religions, I do agree that usually the religion's tenants are noble but that some of the practitioners are the ones that distort it into something that is oppressive or destructive to others of that religion and/or people who do not follow that religion.

I do think that for most human beings there is something within us that compels us to seek answers to the fundamental mysteries of life.

How did we get here?
What is our purpose?
What happens after we die?

There is a belief that faith in something beyond our senses that we can prove is contradictory to scientific discovery. I don't believe that. Religions do fail when they are not open to what scientific evidence has unveiled -- especially when it contradicts some of the belief systems. However, not everybody within a religious belief system takes everything their religion states as statement of fact. Of course I'm most familiar with those issues that have come up with Christianity over the centuries:

1) Whether the earth is round or flat.
2) Whether the earth is the "center" of the universe.
3) Whether the earth was created in 7 24 hour days or not.
3) Whether humans evolved from other animals or were created.

My on feelings is that yes there is a creator and he gave us brains to uncover whatever we can. I don't feel like I have to be an atheist to discover things that may go against organized teachings. If, for instance, my faith is so shaky that if science proves that the world was created over millions of years instead of 7 24 hour days, then I didn't have much of a faith in the first place.

I was raised primarily by my grandma. She died 3 months short of 100 in Nov of 2003. When she died, I went through a real crisis of faith. Somehow I thought there would be some inner peace that she had some other existence somewhere beyond my understanding where someday I may see her again. I didn't feel that. I felt absolutely nothing. If at any time I could have said I'm an atheist, it was then. However, I then realized I was being a bit arrogant. Who was I, that I was so important that whatever exists out there would make sure that I knew for sure that there was an afterlife and that my grandma was there now. I'm like everybody else, I won't know about an afterlife until it is my turn to die -- just like it has been since the beginning of life as we know it. It also seemed such a waste to me to think that our thoughts just fade away into nothingness after life ends.

In the US, there is a big debate over "intelligent design" and how it should be taught in schools. It basically is about stating that the universe is too complicated to understand and that thus there must be some "intelligent design" (code word for God) that is responsible for creation. I don't agree with that idea and I see it more as a political move. To me "ID" comes across as people wanting to push their religion under a guise of being "science". Science should always strive to uncover factual evidence -- not what we "wish" to be true. Just because something seems complex doesn't mean that 10 years down the line scientific progress will have a way of solving another riddle...

That being said, I guess except for the politics of "ID" that i oppose, I'm probably somewhat of that mindset. There is so much beauty in the universe for me to think that it is all just randomness of events.

I don't think I'm alone. I think most spend their lives wondering about the mysteries of life. Whether we just sit back and accept verbatim what the church of our upbringing told us, or we use science to try to figure some of it out. The fact that we have this desire makes me think that something out there created us and wants us to seek him/her/it out and that our religions or scientifc enquiry are a means to that end.
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I really like what you have said here. Just touching a bit on your summary thought;

I also think the very fact that we are able to even conceive of an eternity, a spirit and a Creator is in fact somewhat of an evidence that "something out there created us and wants us to seek him/her/it...". The problem seems to arise on two fronts when it comes to that search. On the one hand are the "religious" people who have been taught that their "scripture/belief/etc." is the absolute infallible word of the Creator - this leads one down the path of denial of scientific facts (not to mention other ills). However, an equal but opposite extreme attitude exists among those who believe that "science" is able to discover all things - this leads down the path of being able to accept nothing unless some scientific instrument can record it.

As with most things, the truth is rarely revealed by fanaticism. It seems fairly obvious to most that the belief that ancient documents that have been copied and translated into multiple languages probably can't stand up to the claims of infallibility - so I will leave that.

However, what is not quite so obvious is the questionable claim that "science" can in fact discover all truth. As we all recall from our schooling; the scientific method is first and foremost that inquiry which can be both observable and repeatable. Without these, what one has is a "theory" that one hopes to somehow "prove". Also, the scientific method is great for one thing and one thing only, to study something that is already in physical existence (even if it is on a sub-atomic level, it is the study of matter - it is the remains of the "Creator's efforts we can study, but never the "Creator"). Thus, when it comes to the question of science somehow proving/disproving "God's" existence - well, it simply is incapable of doing that. When one tries to use "science" to stake a claim of absolute knowledge about the great truths of God, that begins to become as delusional as the opposite belief that somehow our written religious words can tell us everything about the Creator of all things!

Thus, the "search for God" is a search in the spiritual realm. In that realm our science and our words are of little use. Throughout history mankind has been conducting this "search". However, we will never know all of the "cold hard facts" about God, and to live a life trying to do so will be either a life lived in delusion, or a life lived in frustration. (or so it seems to me)
 
alaskabibear said:
...
Thus, the "search for God" is a search in the spiritual realm. In that realm our science and our words are of little use. Throughout history mankind has been conducting this "search". However, we will never know all of the "cold hard facts" about God, and to live a life trying to do so will be either a life lived in delusion, or a life lived in frustration. (or so it seems to me)
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Thanks for the complement. I would just say that I don't see science as a "religion", but I do think many underestimate what can be figured out with time and investigation. No I don't expect something like a "Geiger counter" to be invented that can search for the existence of God. However, I think way too many religious fanatics put science down if there is even the smallest thing that they don't agree with. For instance this whole rage against evolution. To me it doesn't challenge the existence of God. Whether we were created special from mud before the 7th day or if we evolved from other primates over hundreds of thousands of years does not negate that a superior being could have set things in motion. Either way we get the same end result. What it does do is question the superiority of human kind. I think that fact is what bothers them. To me it seems rather arrogant to assume that a God would tell us exactly how things came into being and that we are the only creation that this God cares about.

I really love science fiction for many reasons. For one thing it is very entertaining. Another thing is that it lets us make political comments about things. Since it isn't directly about OUR world, people are more up to listening to the message. I remember one in particular. (Although I don't remember which family of Star Trek shows it came from.) Nevertheless the premise was that a religious fanatic wanted to steal the Enterprise so he could come back to his world and kill the infidels. Near the end, the ship is taken back from him. However, they decide to take him back to his home world and turn him over to the authorities. They show them landing on the planet and everything was destroyed. The whole debate between sides was whether their world view had the universe created in 5 days versus 6... It sounds pretty petty, but just how many of our differences are petty if you look at the over all picture...
 
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I'm Pastafarian and the Great Noodly One's Good Book doesn't really say anything one way or the other about homosexuality, so I'm guessing it's neither praised nor frowned upon.
 
Stuponfucious said:
I'm Pastafarian and the Great Noodly One's Good Book doesn't really say anything one way or the other about homosexuality, so I'm guessing it's neither praised nor frowned upon.
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Actually, Noodly is always portrayed as having soft noodles. So it is more about being anti-stiff noodly than for/against any particular sexual orientation. A stiff noodle is simply a sign of a bad cook who forgot to add salt, oil, and stir.
 
none2_none2 said:
Actually, Noodly is always portrayed as having soft noodles. So it is more about being anti-stiff noodly than for/against any particular sexual orientation. A stiff noodle is simply a sign of a bad cook who forgot to add salt, oil, and stir.
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...are we still talking about pasta?
 
I believe in a god. So much beauty in this world (as well as this site ;)).

as far as religion I'll quote from the movie Kingdom of Heaven:

""I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. " I agree and think it's the true state of your heart and mind that really matters.
 
none2_none2 said:
Every religion has its down side. For the Pastafarian religion stiffness in all aspects of life is just a no-no.
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But isn't cooking one of the great arts of life we should all practice? And without the existence of hard noodles, what would we practice our arts on? ;)
 
I am an Anglican. Sometimes I attend church three times a week. I love Christianity in all of its diversity. I also study and respect each of the world's great religions.
 
No offense intended, but I find it incomprehensible how anyone of any semblance of intellect can accept the fantasy of a supreme being, much less the inane rituals and fables of any organized religion.
 
I'm Jewish, and bad at it. Oh well. I eat bacon and pussy and neither keeps me up at night.

I also give money to causes even though I haven't got much of it, and I get really pissed off at inequality. So, I think I'm ok with Hashem.
 
Netzach said:
I'm Jewish, and bad at it. Oh well. I eat bacon and pussy and neither keeps me up at night.

I also give money to causes even though I haven't got much of it, and I get really pissed off at inequality. So, I think I'm ok with Hashem.
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Bacon will clog your arteries, pussy on the other hand is a low calorie snack with a wonderful flavor
 
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