When do you know when to stop?

[designatedvictim]

I'm taking a brief break to do a bit of a story experiment (the details of which aren't germain to this post).

Last weekend a short story (at about 11.5K in with a 15K-ish target) popped into my head and needed out, so I started the new side-project.

Having said that, I quickly fell into my usual rinse/repeat cycle where I add material and save it to my Kindle to review and edit.

I re-read it end-to-end and as I do and get to thinking: "Gee, maybe I could say this here,", "This would be a better turn of phrase to use here,", "Maybe this ought to be moved down a paragraph or two,", "Maybe add a brief bit to lay the groundwork for, or foreshadow, something I already put in a later section."

In and of itself, that's my editing process, poor as it may be.

What frequently annoys me is that I find myself constantly editing and re-editing the same complete-ish sections when I need to be moving on to newer material.

The story gels, but doesn't set.

What I suppose I'm asking is "When do you stop?"

"When is it done?"

 

[alohadave]

When changes you make don't make it better, and are just changes, it's time to stop.

You may be a candidate for not editing at all until you finish each draft.

And it's never done. At some point you have to let it live in the world, perceived warts and all. You'll see things that no reader will ever notice or care about.

 

[StillStunned]

It stops when you're excited about publishing. Over-editing, to my mind, indicates that you're not ready yet, even if your story is.

The thing is, any story could always be improved, or changed, or expanded. Nothing is perfect, but then again, it never will be perfect, no matter how much you keep tweaking.

So publish it, and see what the response is. If you're lucky, you might get some feedback highlighting where you succeeded and where you failed. You can take that on board for next time. At the very least, if no-one criticises your writing, you know that you did well enough even without more edits.

 

[AchtungNight]

Read it over. Does it flow well? Any plot holes or other issues? Have you said everything you wanted to say? If so, time to publish. Nuff said.

 

[Lifestyle66]

I'm taking a brief break to do a bit of a story experiment (the details of which aren't germain to this post).

Last weekend a short story (at about 11.5K in with a 15K-ish target) popped into my head and needed out, so I started the new side-project.

Having said that, I quickly fell into my usual rinse/repeat cycle where I add material and save it to my Kindle to review and edit.

I re-read it end-to-end and as I do and get to thinking: "Gee, maybe I could say this here,", "This would be a better turn of phrase to use here,", "Maybe this ought to be moved down a paragraph or two,", "Maybe add a brief bit to lay the groundwork for, or foreshadow, something I already put in a later section."

In and of itself, that's my editing process, poor as it may be.

What frequently annoys me is that I find myself constantly editing and re-editing the same complete-ish sections when I need to be moving on to newer material.

The story gels, but doesn't set.

What I suppose I'm asking is "When do you stop?"

"When is it done?"

I have that same issue with repeatedly re-reading, editing, adding, etc.

I think I'm finally "done" when a new idea for another story grabs me, or I finally get tired of this one and just throw my hands up when I realize "What I'm doing might only squeeze out a 0.01 higher rating or 2 more views. They'll either hate it or love it as is!"

But that realization is something I must finally come to on my own.

It's like listening to a new song which becomes your favorite. You'll listen to it until you grow tired of it.

 

[Belegon]

when it escapes because you weren't looking or because you have a good beta reader or editor that can slap your hand with a ruler everytime it gets close to the keyboard... 2.5 bonus points on the royalty if she is dressed as a nun, 5 if she is actually ordained

 

[Voboy]

Mine are done when the story I want to tell is told.

It does sometimes happen that my stories simply won't gel. When that happens? That's a sign to me that the story doesn't want to get told. I happily abandon those and move on.

In most cases, I never ever revisit those stories.

I'm a believer that the best stories are the ones that flow well. If they flow from my keyboard, they'll flow for the reader. If they won't flow, they don't deserve to have a reader. Time to give the next story a chance. And there's always a "next story," sooner or later.

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

What frequently annoys me is that I find myself constantly editing and re-editing the same complete-ish sections when I need to be moving on to newer material.

I do the same! Funny how one day, I’ll feel like it sounds fine. But the next, I’ll feel compelled to rework it. I’ve learned to be cautious of late edits that’d make other longstanding text (that does feel complete) now incongruous. Demands a lot of full proofreads!

 

[TiberiusPrime]

I'm in the middle of a story that was really flowing well, but then I got lost in the minutiae. I was getting too focused on trivial details. I deleted about 200 words so I could get back on track. I really don't think the readers would care about what burger the main character is ordering when it's supposed to a love story!

 

[TheWritingGroup]

A couple of my stories, I wrote two chapters initially that I later just cut out. In both cases, it helped--I learned who the characters were and got a better idea of what the story should be.

-Annie

 

[MillieDynamite]

Henry James published four different versions of Turn of the Screw. For some folks, some stories are just never finished. Don't be one of those writers. Don't overwork it to death. I've done that, but it didn't improve it, and in the end, I just never published those I'm never happy with.

 

[designatedvictim]

Every writer has their own... call them issues with how they write.

One writer I know (one of those guys who'd been published by a real publishing house, in paper, in hardback, even), who told me that once he puts it on the page, it's done (save for copy-editing).

I wanted to hate him when he said that. I was so jealous.

 

[designatedvictim]

If you're lucky, you might get some feedback highlighting where you succeeded and where you failed.

Oh, please! Don't get me started on feedback!

I've only had one piece of decent feedback in my first WiP, It was valid, but the only writing comment I managed to get.

Thanks.

 

[designatedvictim]

I do the same! Funny how one day, I’ll feel like it sounds fine. But the next, I’ll feel compelled to rework it. I’ve learned to be cautious of late edits that’d make other longstanding text (that does feel complete) now incongruous. Demands a lot of full proofreads!

I my case, it's almost never major text or structural changes, just an endless stream of filing off the rough edges by changing a word, phrase, or sentence.

 

[designatedvictim]

I'm in the middle of a story that was really flowing well, but then I got lost in the minutiae. I was getting too focused on trivial details. I deleted about 200 words so I could get back on track. I really don't think the readers would care about what burger the main character is ordering when it's supposed to a love story!

Some people really do like to tell more about the meat they eat.

(Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

 

[Plathfan]

Mine are done when the story I want to tell is told.

It does sometimes happen that my stories simply won't gel. When that happens? That's a sign to me that the story doesn't want to get told. I happily abandon those and move on.

In most cases, I never ever revisit those stories.

I'm a believer that the best stories are the ones that flow well. If they flow from my keyboard, they'll flow for the reader. If they won't flow, they don't deserve to have a reader. Time to give the next story a chance. And there's always a "next story," sooner or later.

I find it deeply disturbing that I agree with every word. Time to change my diet.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

For better, or worse, I do very little editing, and I don't really rewrite things. My aim is to be done, not linger and fuck around. Is the punctuation and tense right, does it make sense?

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Done > Perfect. If you're constantly tweaking things, you may not be aiming for a finished work, you might be aiming for perfection instead. The law of diminishing returns applies to editing as well. I can tell that by experience: the more time I spend writing or editing something, the quality starts to drop.

 

[Cagivagurl]

I'm taking a brief break to do a bit of a story experiment (the details of which aren't germain to this post).

Last weekend a short story (at about 11.5K in with a 15K-ish target) popped into my head and needed out, so I started the new side-project.

Having said that, I quickly fell into my usual rinse/repeat cycle where I add material and save it to my Kindle to review and edit.

I re-read it end-to-end and as I do and get to thinking: "Gee, maybe I could say this here,", "This would be a better turn of phrase to use here,", "Maybe this ought to be moved down a paragraph or two,", "Maybe add a brief bit to lay the groundwork for, or foreshadow, something I already put in a later section."

In and of itself, that's my editing process, poor as it may be.

What frequently annoys me is that I find myself constantly editing and re-editing the same complete-ish sections when I need to be moving on to newer material.

The story gels, but doesn't set.

What I suppose I'm asking is "When do you stop?"

"When is it done?"

It's done... When you feel it's done.

If you don't feel that it's finished. Put it aside and go back to it later. Give it a chance to breathe. Move onto other projects. If parts of the story keep working back into your subconscious. Then it's not done...

I was given some wonderful advice by my friend and editor. She said.

"You reach a point of diminishing returns, where the changes are so small, they make little to no difference."

I believe that to be true. The search for perfection can make you fret and worry about infinitesimal things that in reality. Say very little.

Let it sit... Then go back to it. If nothing major pops out at you. It's done.

In my opinion anyway...

Cagivagurl

 

[designatedvictim]

Done > Perfect. If you're constantly tweaking things, you may not be aiming for a finished work, you might be aiming for perfection instead. The law of diminishing returns applies to editing as well. I can tell that by experience: the more time I spend writing or editing something, the quality starts to drop.

You're right.

But part of my problem is that the story isn't complete enough yet to publish.

I've added another 2500, or so words to it since I posted this question this morning. Just tipped over 14K, although some pieces may be trimmed out later. Gonna run long on me, like my other WiP. That's an awful lot for me in that timeframe.

It's daily vignettes with a sunrise motif from a 10-day stayover with maybe three days left to flesh out.

I was originally hoping to publish it by tomorrow, but that isn't gonna happen. That goal was too ambitious. Maybe now shooting for mid-week, if the snow falling outside my window gets heavy and deep enough.

 

[Cagivagurl]

You're right.

But part of my problem is that the story isn't complete enough yet to publish.

I've added another 2500, or so words to it since I posted this question this morning. Just tipped over 14K, although some pieces may be trimmed out later. Gonna run long on me, like my other WiP. That's an awful lot for me in that timeframe.

It's daily vignettes with a sunrise motif from a 10-day stayover with maybe three days left to flesh out.

I was originally hoping to publish it by tomorrow, but that isn't gonna happen. That goal was too ambitious. Maybe now shooting for mid-week, if the snow falling outside my window gets heavy and deep enough.

Forget the noise....
The desire to post. If you are still adding to it, then it most definitely isn't finished...
I am no writer, however, I have started stories I thought would be no longer than perhaps 20,000 words at best, but ended up over 60,000 words...
A story is never finished until you are comfortable with it.
Ignore deadlines, or story length. It will grow to be what it was always supposed to be...
Deadlines, even if self imposed, just create tension that gets in the way of the story...
If you rush and hurry, it will never be what it could have been.

My thoughts only.

Cagivagurl

 

[designatedvictim]

I am no writer, however, I have started stories I thought would be no longer than perhaps 20,000 words at best, but ended up over 60,000 words...

Oh, I wish I could be that concise.

With my first WiP, I had no clue how long it would run. It currently weighs in at about 125K words.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Oh, I wish I could be that concise.

With my first WiP, I had no clue how long it would run. It currently weighs in at about 125K words.

Awesome...
I love long stories.
I have always found that stories get a life of their own and either I get to a stage where I like it, or I'm sick of it... Either way it is the end.

Cagivagurl

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I am no writer, however, I have started stories I thought would be no longer than perhaps 20,000 words at best, but ended up over 60,000 words...

You are a writer.

That's what a writer is: someone who writes.

-Annie

 

[KittyOfSteele]

You're right.

But part of my problem is that the story isn't complete enough yet to publish.

I've added another 2500, or so words to it since I posted this question this morning. Just tipped over 14K, although some pieces may be trimmed out later. Gonna run long on me, like my other WiP. That's an awful lot for me in that timeframe.

It's daily vignettes with a sunrise motif from a 10-day stayover with maybe three days left to flesh out.

I was originally hoping to publish it by tomorrow, but that isn't gonna happen. That goal was too ambitious. Maybe now shooting for mid-week, if the snow falling outside my window gets heavy and deep enough.

Here's a lesson that I learned the hard way last year at NaNoWriMo: don't restrain your story. I was actually writing something that was supposed to be a bottle episode, but due to the structure that I used it ended up becoming huge: it turned into epic fantasy. Opposite of you, I didn't want to add anything to it, but the story asked for it, and to this day, is still asking for so many things that I ended up merging two ideas into one, mostly because both are very similar ideas, and both fit better with the same protagonist rather than splitting them into two different stories.

If you're still adding to it, maybe it means that whatever you had in your mind grew out of proportions, and is asking more room to breathe. If you really feel the pressure to publish, I'd suggest that you do what the Renaissance artists did when they were comissioned huge works: wait for the paint to dry, and while you're waiting, do sketches and small things that you can show off. In the case of writing, put this manuscript in the oven, and let it sit there while you cook other stories that you can publish.