Calling for a Change or maybe just being passive aggressive...

[blulilacgrl]

In the interests of not being passive aggressive. I have decided to post this on its own thread (this is also in an effort to stop derailing fgarvb1’s thread. sorry fgarvb1 ).

Yes, I apparently sit on my lone horse, in judgment. I am the only one that thinks a small subset of the posters in the How-To forum have become more belittling and ridiculing in their postings than helpful.

Meh… it could just be me, I suppose. I have been known to be wrong on occasion. But maybe it isn’t just me. Maybe I am not the only one who is tired of watching this small clique question the veracity of questions and posters, pile on in making fun of a poster, and making mean spirited comments of other posters not even on the current thread. Then again, maybe I am. I have been accused of having “fantastical standards” when it comes to such things. So why not open it up for discussion?

I have been tasked with calling for a change!

So here it is. If you feel that you have been mistreated on this forum. If you feel that your question was an honest and valid question, if you feel that you were unfairly ganged up on and want to air your grievances… well step forth and be heard. Apparently they are anxious to hear from you.

If you would like to see where this started you can go here.

I am curious as to whether I am alone in this or not.

 

[pplwatching]

.....

 

[pplwatching]

......

 

[LadyVer]

I comment occasionnally on the HT. It's only recently that I've noticed what appears to be gb behavior by JamesJohnson, and that was on the Oral thread. He seemed to be going out of his way to offend everyone, which is what the gb is known for and which all other forums don't usually put up with. It's also gb behavior, in my opinion, to bring someone's post from another thread to prove a point, when said post was written on a different type of thread and in a different context.

I'm not saying these things to start a war so I hope my comment is not taken as an attack but blunt, though well meaning, hints.

 

[bailadora]

So here it is. If you feel that you have been mistreated on this forum. If you feel that your question was an honest and valid question, if you feel that you were unfairly ganged up on and want to air your grievances… well step forth and be heard. Apparently they are anxious to hear from you.

IMHO, I think that's subjective. I think there are some people who may have felt they received unfair treatment on HT, but I also think that those same people might not have taken the time to consider the "culture" of the board on which they asked their question.

Some people assume that because Lit is a "porn" board, anything and everything goes. While the HT regulars are some of the most sexually open minded people I've "met", there are certain things/topics that don't fly on HT:

• incest
• cheating on or being unfaithful to one's partner (NOT the same thing as opening up a relationship)
• fishing for wank fodder in the guise of asking for "help"
• trying to make/convince/ change the mind of/ or otherwise coerce one's partner into doing something they don't want to do.
• engaging others in one's kink without their express consent, ie public exhibitionism

If someone comes here and expects to be validated on a topic that goes against the generally accepted moral code (if you will) of the board, they're going to get their arse handed to them. Granted, there are always going to be outliers who are egging on the OP to go for it, but for the most part, he or she is going to be ill received.

I've said this several times before when the topic of forum etiquette has arisen: before you (general you, not you in general, Blu) start posting on a new forum, it pays to do some lurking and get a feel for the dynamics of the board. It helps you get a better understanding of the dos and taboos of the group. Of course, people can choose not to do this, but then IMO, I don't think they have any right to get their feelings hurt if they put a foot wrong and then get called on it.

Established groups will always have their rules of engagement that anyone wishing to engage with that group are expected to follow. HT is not the only place this happens. Just let someone show up on the BDSM forum and try to use slash speak. *snorts with laughter*

Maybe it's just me. But if I'm wanting to interact with an established group, I expect to conform to their rules. I don't expect the group to conform to me. If I don't like what I see to begin with, I move on until I find somewhere I feel comfortable.

 

[blulilacgrl]

IMHO, I think that's subjective. I think there are some people who may have felt they received unfair treatment on HT, but I also think that those same people might not have taken the time to consider the "culture" of the board on which they asked their question.

Some people assume that because Lit is a "porn" board, anything and everything goes. While the HT regulars are some of the most sexually open minded people I've "met", there are certain things/topics that don't fly on HT:

• incest
• cheating on or being unfaithful to one's partner (NOT the same thing as opening up a relationship)
• fishing for wank fodder in the guise of asking for "help"
• trying to make/convince/ change the mind of/ or otherwise coerce one's partner into doing something they don't want to do.
• engaging others in one's kink without their express consent, ie public exhibitionism

If someone comes here and expects to be validated on a topic that goes against the generally accepted moral code (if you will) of the board, they're going to get their arse handed to them. Granted, there are always going to be outliers who are egging on the OP to go for it, but for the most part, he or she is going to be ill received.

I've said this several times before when the topic of forum etiquette has arisen: before you (general you, not you in general, Blu) start posting on a new forum, it pays to do some lurking and get a feel for the dynamics of the board. It helps you get a better understanding of the dos and taboos of the group. Of course, people can choose not to do this, but then IMO, I don't think they have any right to get their feelings hurt if they put a foot wrong and then get called on it.

Established groups will always have their rules of engagement that anyone wishing to engage with that group are expected to follow. HT is not the only place this happens. Just let someone show up on the BDSM forum and try to use slash speak. *snorts with laughter*

Maybe it's just me. But if I'm wanting to interact with an established group, I expect to conform to their rules. I don't expect the group to conform to me. If I don't like what I see to begin with, I move on until I find somewhere I feel comfortable.

Why? Here's the thing I don't understand. I don't post on a question if I feel my advice won't be well received. So... if I feel the OP is looking for wank fodder~ I don't post. If I feel the OP is looking to be validated for cheating on his/her significant other~ I don't post. Why the need to engage on shit like that?

The BDSM is not billed as a How-To forum. It is a forum to discuss BDSM topics. Now people tend to ask questions but that is not necessarily the intended purpose.

A person should not have to look at the dynamics of a How-To forum to see if their question is one that is allowed to see if he or she can get help here. This is not the GB, the Fetish/Sexuality, or the BDSM forum. This is the How-To, the place where EVERYBODY is supposed to be able to post a question, ANY question and see if there is SOMEONE that can help them. If you can't help or don't agree with it, easy peasy~ don't. There is no quota, no rule that says you have to respond.

Also the assumption is that people are looking to engage with the little oligarchy on the How-To. They aren't. People who post here are looking for advice. For someone to answer the question. If I post a question here, I am not necessarily expecting one of the regulars to post on my thread, unless what they are posting is relevant and answers the question. If it doesn't then why are they posting? No one posts here to have Bailadora or Blulilacgrl answer his or her question. They are just looking for someone who can give relevant advice to do so.

Instead it seems like lately people get questioned on the veracity of their question and/or their gender, they get ridiculed and they get ganged up on. How is that even remotely what the How-To was supposed to be?

But apparently this is just my opinion.

 

[bailadora]

Why? Here's the thing I don't understand. I don't post on a question if I feel my advice won't be well received. So... if I feel the OP is looking for wank fodder~ I don't post. If I feel the OP is looking to be validated for cheating on his/her significant other~ I don't post. Why the need to engage on shit like that?

The BDSM is not billed as a How-To forum. It is a forum to discuss BDSM topics. Now people tend to ask questions but that is not necessarily the intended purpose.

A person should not have to look at the dynamics of a How-To forum to see if their question is one that is allowed to see if he or she can get help here. This is not the GB, the Fetish/Sexuality, or the BDSM forum. This is the How-To, the place where EVERYBODY is supposed to be able to post a question, ANY question and see if there is SOMEONE that can help them. If you can't help or don't agree with it, easy peasy~ don't. There is no quota, no rule that says you have to respond.

Also the assumption is that people are looking to engage with the little oligarchy on the How-To. They aren't. People who post here are looking for advice. For someone to answer the question. If I post a question here, I am not necessarily expecting one of the regulars to post on my thread, unless what they are posting is relevant and answers the question. If it doesn't then why are they posting? No one posts here to have Bailadora or Blulilacgrl answer his or her question. They are just looking for someone who can give relevant advice to do so.

Instead it seems like lately people get questioned on the veracity of their question and/or their gender, they get ridiculed and they get ganged up on. How is that even remotely what the How-To was supposed to be?

But apparently this is just my opinion.

There's nothing that says anyone *needs* to participate on any given question. But human nature being what is it, some people are going to put in their two cents ( or more) - whether or not it's what the OP wants to hear. That's the chance you take on a public discussion forum. This is just my opinion, but if you (again, general "you") aren't prepared to hear points of view contrary to your own (and have some of those points heatedly expressed), then you've got no business being on a public discussion forum. People are not required to stroke your ego, or validate your position or tell you only what you want to hear. When you put something out there for public discussion, you do so knowing that's the chance you take.

As for studying the dynamics of a board and who the regular participants are before engaging, think of it as recon (you are the former military kid, are you not?). Are you required to do this? No. But doing so gives you an idea of the people who are most likely to respond to your questions and what sort of attitudes/belief systems they are responding from. If you know your question/topic is going to be ill received to begin with, why ask it on that particular forum to begin with? Why not go to a forum where you'll receive a more welcoming reception?

Just because this is the How To forum, it doesn't mean people check their beliefs at the door. If they think something is wrong, or stupid, or whatever, they're going to tell you. That's just human nature. Perhaps some people think that's not how it "should" be, but that is indeed how it works around here.

ETA: to your point that no one posts topics and/or questions hoping for answers from certain other participants: um, no. Although she's been MIA for quite some time, Sweet Erika is one of HT's most knowledgeable and patient denizens there are. I've seen several newb's expressly thank her for chiming in on their particular topic or query, and explicitly state that they were hoping she would pipe up.

 

[NightL]

A big "Like" to bailadora's posts

and every word I wrote here
http://forum.literotica.com/showpost.php?p=43553148&postcount=37

 

[NightL]

If I feel the OP is looking to be validated for cheating on his/her significant other~ I don't post. Why the need to engage on shit like that?

that is your approach, others choose to respond differently. Are they allowed to? Can people have different view points? Can we discuss in a discussion forum?

If someone intentionally farts near me - I may well express my disdain - and maybe loudly.

Your argument falls short if we place it into society outside of Literotica. Do we ignore anyone who does harm to others purely because we may not be directly involved? Do we ignore those who express a desire to do harm to others? No doubt there are many who visit Literotica who are highly impressionable, should discussion be allowed to develop that would encourage someone to act in a manner that may be harmful to others or indeed themselves because they saw validity in a discussion that no one was allowed to disagree with?

Sometime people just want to lighten the load a little and have a laugh at ridiculous and incredulous statements. That may not be your approach blulilacgrl, but it helps many of us get through the day. I will also defend the right of anyone to question what they believe is fundamentally wrong. Sometimes people do it with humour.

 

[blulilacgrl]

There's nothing that says anyone *needs* to participate on any given question. But human nature being what is it, some people are going to put in their two cents ( or more) - whether or not it's what the OP wants to hear. That's the chance you take on a public discussion forum. This is just my opinion, but if you (again, general "you") aren't prepared to hear points of view contrary to your own (and have some of those points heatedly expressed), then you've got no business being on a public discussion forum. People are not required to stroke your ego, or validate your position or tell you only what you want to hear. When you put something out there for public discussion, you do so knowing that's the chance you take.

As for studying the dynamics of a board and who the regular participants are before engaging, think of it as recon (you are the former military kid, are you not?). Are you required to do this? No. But doing so gives you an idea of the people who are most likely to respond to your questions and what sort of attitudes/belief systems they are responding from. If you know your question/topic is going to be ill received to begin with, why ask it on that particular forum to begin with? Why not go to a forum where you'll receive a more welcoming reception?

Just because this is the How To forum, it doesn't mean people check their beliefs at the door. If they think something is wrong, or stupid, or whatever, they're going to tell you. That's just human nature. Perhaps some people think that's not how it "should" be, but that is indeed how it works around here.

ETA: to your point that no one posts topics and/or questions hoping for answers from certain other participants: um, no. Although she's been MIA for quite some time, Sweet Erika is one of HT's most knowledgeable and patient denizens there are. I've seen several newb's expressly thank her for chiming in on their particular topic or query, and explicitly state that they were hoping she would pipe up.

Hoping yes, but I don't think anyone posts with the specified intention of a specific poster responding and no one should have to stop and go "Oh I better not post this question because Bailadora or Bluliacgrl doesn't like this topic".

It is not about whether I like the topic or not. It's not about whether or not you like the topic. It is about whether the poster can get the help he or she needs. And truthfully the only thing that I can see being a problem is if it is illegal. Other than that, why should anyone have to curb their question to meet your (general you) morality? Does this mean people who have a question about watersports shouldn't post here because you or I don't like it? Because we might poke fun at them? I thought that is what made us different and in some ways better than the "outside world". That a person could feel comfortable posting such a thing without fear of ridicule or derision. Can you honestly say that is possible in this forum?

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

IMHO, I think that's subjective. I think there are some people who may have felt they received unfair treatment on HT, but I also think that those same people might not have taken the time to consider the "culture" of the board on which they asked their question.

Some people assume that because Lit is a "porn" board, anything and everything goes. While the HT regulars are some of the most sexually open minded people I've "met", there are certain things/topics that don't fly on HT:

• incest
• cheating on or being unfaithful to one's partner (NOT the same thing as opening up a relationship)
• fishing for wank fodder in the guise of asking for "help"
• trying to make/convince/ change the mind of/ or otherwise coerce one's partner into doing something they don't want to do.
• engaging others in one's kink without their express consent, ie public exhibitionism

If someone comes here and expects to be validated on a topic that goes against the generally accepted moral code (if you will) of the board, they're going to get their arse handed to them. Granted, there are always going to be outliers who are egging on the OP to go for it, but for the most part, he or she is going to be ill received.

I've said this several times before when the topic of forum etiquette has arisen: before you (general you, not you in general, Blu) start posting on a new forum, it pays to do some lurking and get a feel for the dynamics of the board. It helps you get a better understanding of the dos and taboos of the group. Of course, people can choose not to do this, but then IMO, I don't think they have any right to get their feelings hurt if they put a foot wrong and then get called on it.

Established groups will always have their rules of engagement that anyone wishing to engage with that group are expected to follow. HT is not the only place this happens. Just let someone show up on the BDSM forum and try to use slash speak. *snorts with laughter*

Maybe it's just me. But if I'm wanting to interact with an established group, I expect to conform to their rules. I don't expect the group to conform to me. If I don't like what I see to begin with, I move on until I find somewhere I feel comfortable.

You just confirmed two of the points I've been pounding, 1 is the sense of ownership the regulars feel, and 2 is the hostility to unorthodox views.

Amazing arrogance

 

[fgarvb1]

I find once in a while that I need to reread this.


**************************************************************
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=13202285#post13202285

Just a reminder

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In light of some recent "activity," I thought it prudent to C&P the Forum Guidelines here.

Forum Guidelines

1. You must be 18 years or older to read or participate at Literotica.

2. You may not post sexually explicit pictures or stories featuring anyone under 18 years old. Literotica does not allow the posting of underage or animal sex pictures - or links to such - on the forum. Please Click Here for our full photo posting guidelines.

3. Do not post /hotlink copyrighted images or articles in their entirety. Fair use laws allow some posting of copyrighted material, such as excerpts from articles and screen captures from movies, under certain circumstances. Please do a Google search under "Fair Use" if you want to understand this issue better.

4. You may not post personal information of other members or, for that matter, anyone else. We do not allow phone numbers, email addresses, private messages or quotes from private emails to be posted on the forum. This rule also covers real names, employment info, and any other personal information that we deem inappropriate.

5. Do not threaten other users.

6. Any posts made with the intent of promoting another site or a product will be removed. You may not send unsolicited PM's or emails to other users trying to promote other websites or products. Literotica is not a place to promote other websites, and we are very strict on this issue. If you abuse this policy, you will be banned.

7. Please do not blatantly "advertise" for other websites in your signature. We allow non-commercial links to other people's personal websites in sigs, but please do not beg people to click on your link, make it huge and/or flashing, or otherwise be obnoxious.

We do not allow links to any adult pay sites. We also reserve the right to remove signatures which link to sites with numerous annoying pop-ups, viruses, or anything else potentially harmful to people's computers. If you turn your signature into an advertisement, we will ask you to change it. Do not start threads with the URL in the header.

8. You cannot use a URL/site address as your membername. If you do so, we will ask you to change your name.

9. Flooding the forum with posts, screen-breaking text, or images - or bumping old threads - and/or any non-substantive activity with the intent of disrupting the forum is prohibited.

10. Please do not post audio that automatically plays itself on the forum. There are people who access Lit from various locations, and in some locations they prefer to be discreet. We reserve the right to edit or remove any post or signature which automatically plays audio.

11. Please post content in the appropriate forum. We do not believe in censorship, but your posts will be moved or removed if you do not read the forum title before hitting "SUBMIT". Personal ads should be posted in the "Personals" forum, story ideas in the "Story Ideas" forum, BDSM issues in the BDSM forum, random nonsense on the General Board, and so on.

12. We will not remove your posts. You have the ability to edit out any text and remove any attachments on your own. The administrators will not delete your posts just because you changed your mind about what you said. You can edit your own posts as you see fit. Please do not contact us about removing your posts.

* * *

If you believe that someone is violating these rules in a specific post, please click on the "REPORT THIS POST" link in that post and submit a report to the Moderators.

Anything else goes. You may post whatever you like. Consequently, so can everyone else. The administrators here don't believe they are anyone's parents nor are they anyone's Jiminy Cricket. It's not their responsibility to make sure that everyone on the site uses free speech responsibly. It's up to individual users to be responsible for themselves. For those who are not, the programmers at Jelsoft have added an ignore function for your convenience. Just go here and add the user you don't want to deal with anymore.

In short, we believe in the First Amendment, and offensive content will not be removed unless it breaks one of the rules.

 

[NightL]

I am confused now? Are you still advocating the right of people to discuss incest, rape and implied paedophilia to go unchallenged? In our discussion that is what certainly what you appeared to be indicating. You even provided names of people you felt had been treated unfairly.

I will make it very clear, I do not believe for an instant that you are promoting or indeed wishing to support those who wish to discuss what is deemed illegal, but you don't have the right to deny others from criticising.

You are now appearing to evade and offer a softer stance. Are we allowed to criticise or offer opinion, being that this is a discussion board, of people who outwardly state they don't give a rat's-arse toward their partner's emotional and sometimes physical well-being while seeking their self gratification? Some-times a troll is just a troll and a little bit of humour in response will have absolutely no impact on them, but may well make many others feel a hell of a lot better.

"I'm into water sports - I love peeing on my feet - how do I make that more enjoyable" is a very different question than "I'm into water sports, my wife finds it disgusting. How do I make her enjoy it". The humour usually starts when the OP becomes belligerent that the expressed opinions or even very sound advise about respecting their wife's choices don't match their desire to get tug-pulling PMs.

The How To... is a discussion forum.

 

[NightL]

You just confirmed two of the points I've been pounding, 1 is the sense of ownership the regulars feel, and 2 is the hostility to unorthodox views.

Amazing arrogance

What!!!??? You stepped in a month or so ago, having been basically long absent from the How To... and you have done nothing but stamp your dog-shit boots all over the How To... ever since.

Sorry, you are not unorthodox and certainly not appearing to be either witty or clever, you just come across as an arrogant grumpy old man with absolutely nothing positive to contribute. Your desire to get a reaction and response is absolutely no different than any other chat-fishing, tug-pulling troll.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I am confused now? Are you still advocating the right of people to discuss incest, rape and implied pedophilia to go unchallenged? In our discussion that is what certainly what you appeared to be indicating. You even provided names of people you felt had been treated unfairly.

I will make it very clear, I do not believe for an instant that you are promoting or indeed wishing to support those who wish to discuss what is deemed illegal, but you don't have the right to deny others from criticising.

You are now appearing to evade and offer a softer stance. Are we allowed to criticise or offer opinion, being that this is a discussion board, of people who outwardly state they don't give a rat's-arse toward their partner's emotional and sometimes physical well-being while seeking their self gratification? Some-times a troll is just a troll and a little bit of humour in response will have absolutely no impact on them, but may well make many others feel a hell of a lot better.

"I'm into water sports - I love peeing on my feet - how do I make that more enjoyable" is a very different question than "I'm into water sports, my wife finds it disgusting. How do I make her enjoy it". The humour usually starts when the OP becomes belligerent that the expressed opinions or even very sound advise about respecting their wife's choices don't match their desire to get tug-pulling PMs.

The How To... is a discussion forum.

Ummm... rape and pedophilia~ both illegal.

And apparently your version of good natured humor and mine differ. I find the version that is used on this forum to be snarky and mean spirited lately.

What I do find funny is that you want to discuss one aspect of what I have brought up while ignoring everything else.

Should I take from your evasion that you support the piling on of posters and the putting down of posters not here to defend themselves? And in keeping with your theme, where did Beck31 advocate rape or pedophilia?

 

[fire_breeze]

I very much tried not to post in this thread, but I do believe I can help and clarify a few issues. As most of you know, I intensely dislike confrontation and arguments and will avoid them. However, I feel like I have to chime in (and this is not directed at anybody!)

There has been threads about, ah, controversial subjects such watersports and non-consent play which were started in an intelligent manner. No one, I believe, had an issue with them. These were genuine questions, and most of the response were, for the most part, insightful and respectful. In most cases, these OPs were directed to a more suitable forum of the site not because the How-Toers did not want to deal with them but because they knew that other regulars on those forums were better to equipped to help and they may not check out in this small corner of Lit. I myself has suggested people to ask their questions in the F&SC or the BDSM forums because I knew that we cannot give them anything substantial.

What gets problematic is when threads are obviously started with the sole purpose of either being wank fodder, or confrontational with the goal of inciting tension. This is what Baila was referring to (although if I am wrong, she will most certainly correct me). Incest, for example, is not completely illegal, but most How-Toers will say it goes against the culture of this particular group. Coercion (aka "how-do-I-make-my-partner-to-lick-liver-paté-off-of-my-unwashed-feet-even-though-they-said-no-I-know-they'll-like-it-if-they-tried") is also out. Any forms of dishonesty is out. While individual regulars may not necessarily agree with certain 'codes' (and I personally know of some respected semi-regular How-Tos that will have no problems with some forms of cheating, for example) they will NOT post in those threads in compliance to the culture of the forum.

There is nothing wrong with intense debate and discussion. It's a way we learn. Hell, if you read the old-school GB (pre 2005), they were mostly intelligent discussions. I do, however, dislike flame wars and disrespect. While I personally avoid threads that are of that nature, many How-Toers will call those OPs out.

Every group has culture and every group has rules, explicit or otherwise. If anyone disagrees with that statement, that's entirely your right, but facts are facts and this is one of the few universal, undisputed, human-scientific facts. The How-To has organically constructed a culture that will not tolerate certain behaviour, and flaming. Most How-Toers have little patience for wank fodder - if someone wants invest in his (and it's almost always a he, although in fairness to equality, it can be a she) or her spank-bank, there are other forums that will better service his/her needs. These are not genuine questions. Like it or not, this is the very nature of a culture, and this is the very nature of the How-To culture.

I'd like to think I'm part of the How-To culture, and from my experience in posting and interacting with the regulars is if the question/comment/point of discussion is respectful in tone, then virtually anything goes. If it's not, we will first ask for clarification and then go from there - on the one hand, the OP may clarify and reword his/her post and then the thread will be discussed in a genuinely respectful manner. If, on the other hand, the OP continues in what the culture has deemed to be an 'inappropriate' way, then the OP will be ridiculed and ostracised. However, I must stress that in all my years on this board, I have never seen this happen without the OP given the chance to explain him/herself.

A person has to genuinely want an answer - and be prepared to hear all types of answers, even the ones that s/he doesn't want to hear. If an OP cannot handle that, then s/he may wish to think twice before posting. It's not about fear but rather the reason why s/he is asking the question and level of sincerity.

I hope I've explained a few points that I, as an outsider to this debate but as a somewhat of an insider of the culture, saw as potentially being unclear and could cause some severe disputes. I don't think I did. I tried.

Ah well.

 

[NippleMuncher]

On occasion, I have snarked at the crap spewn forth at times in the HT. I hold steadfast to the belief that most reasonable folks can tell the difference between a "valid" question, and the ramblings of the general troll who is only looking for sympathy, wank fodder, or to try to incite an uprising amongst the populace. Valid questions, even when against the views of the masses will receive respectful responses, the general troll will have their ass handed to them in no uncertain terms.

You just confirmed two of the points I've been pounding, 1 is the sense of ownership the regulars feel, and 2 is the hostility to unorthodox views.

Amazing arrogance

Anyone who frequents any site, is going to have a sense of ownership, that is what builds the community, and IMHO, these groups have every right to rail against those who intentionally try to upset that balance. You wouldn't allow someone to come into your home and crap in your living room, would you, of course not! The regular members of any community feel just as strongly about trolls entering their online "living space" and crapping. We tend to get a little vocal about that sort of thing.

The general hostility that is being discussed here has nothing to do with "unorthodox views", it has to do with trolls having their asses handed to them. Does this put forward the best side of the members doing so, probably not, that doesn't mean it's any less justified. I have seen many MANY times on this very forum, the question of incest, among other things, come up, as I first stated, it is usually plainly obvious whether it's an honest question or a troll, when the membership feels the question is valid, it gets courteous answers, trolls do not.

 

[blulilacgrl]

I very much tried not to post in this thread, but I do believe I can help and clarify a few issues. As most of you know, I intensely dislike confrontation and arguments and will avoid them. However, I feel like I have to chime in (and this is not directed at anybody!)

There has been threads about, ah, controversial subjects such watersports and non-consent play which were started in an intelligent manner. No one, I believe, had an issue with them. These were genuine questions, and most of the response were, for the most part, insightful and respectful. In most cases, these OPs were directed to a more suitable forum of the site not because the How-Toers did not want to deal with them but because they knew that other regulars on those forums were better to equipped to help and they may not check out in this small corner of Lit. I myself has suggested people to ask their questions in the F&SC or the BDSM forums because I knew that we cannot give them anything substantial.

What gets problematic is when threads are obviously started with the sole purpose of either being wank fodder, or confrontational with the goal of inciting tension. This is what Baila was referring to (although if I am wrong, she will most certainly correct me). Incest, for example, is not completely illegal, but most How-Toers will say it goes against the culture of this particular group. Coercion (aka "how-do-I-make-my-partner-to-lick-liver-paté-off-of-my-unwashed-feet-even-though-they-said-no-I-know-they'll-like-it-if-they-tried") is also out. Any forms of dishonesty is out. While individual regulars may not necessarily agree with certain 'codes' (and I personally know of some respected semi-regular How-Tos that will have no problems with some forms of cheating, for example) they will NOT post in those threads in compliance to the culture of the forum.

There is nothing wrong with intense debate and discussion. It's a way we learn. Hell, if you read the old-school GB (pre 2005), they were mostly intelligent discussions. I do, however, dislike flame wars and disrespect. While I personally avoid threads that are of that nature, many How-Toers will call those OPs out.

Every group has culture and every group has rules, explicit or otherwise. If anyone disagrees with that statement, that's entirely your right, but facts are facts and this is one of the few universal, undisputed, human-scientific facts. The How-To has organically constructed a culture that will not tolerate certain behaviour, and flaming. Most How-Toers have little patience for wank fodder - if someone wants invest in his (and it's almost always a he, although in fairness to equality, it can be a she) or her spank-bank, there are other forums that will better service his/her needs. These are not genuine questions. Like it or not, this is the very nature of a culture, and this is the very nature of the How-To culture.

I'd like to think I'm part of the How-To culture, and from my experience in posting and interacting with the regulars is if the question/comment/point of discussion is respectful in tone, then virtually anything goes. If it's not, we will first ask for clarification and then go from there - on the one hand, the OP may clarify and reword his/her post and then the thread will be discussed in a genuinely respectful manner. If, on the other hand, the OP continues in what the culture has deemed to be an 'inappropriate' way, then the OP will be ridiculed and ostracised. However, I must stress that in all my years on this board, I have never seen this happen without the OP given the chance to explain him/herself.

A person has to genuinely want an answer - and be prepared to hear all types of answers, even the ones that s/he doesn't want to hear. If an OP cannot handle that, then s/he may wish to think twice before posting. It's not about fear but rather the reason why s/he is asking the question and level of sincerity.

I hope I've explained a few points that I, as an outsider to this debate but as a somewhat of an insider of the culture, saw as potentially being unclear and could cause some severe disputes. I don't think I did. I tried.

Ah well.

Damn it, Breeze! No fair coming in and being all lady like and what not! [laughs]


Although, and this is the one issue I have with your post (the rest I will. as I do with others, choose to agree to disagree)


If, on the other hand, the OP continues in what the culture has deemed to be an 'inappropriate' way, then the OP will be ridiculed and ostracised.

First~ I don't see the point in and frankly it bothers me to see a bunch of "adults" gleefully piling on to poke fun at and ridicule another poster because he/she said something they don't like. It is silly and childish and I always question the need for the ridicule when simple silence would have sufficed. I will even go so far as to say that I have engaged in knock down, drag outs and looking back I am ashamed and mortified by my behavior. I would also point out, Breeze, (and trust me, I point this out with respect) I have never seen you stoop to this behavior, in fact I always feel quite low when I am around you.

Second~ I have seen a poster or two that has been ridiculed for relatively innocuous statements.

 

[fire_breeze]

Damn it, Breeze! No fair coming in and being all lady like and what not! [laughs]


Although, and this is the one issue I have with your post (the rest I will. as I do with others, choose to agree to disagree)


If, on the other hand, the OP continues in what the culture has deemed to be an 'inappropriate' way, then the OP will be ridiculed and ostracised.

First~ I don't see the point in and frankly it bothers me to see a bunch of "adults" gleefully piling on to poke fun at and ridicule another poster because he/she said something they don't like. It is silly and childish and I always question the need for the ridicule when simple silence would have sufficed. I will even go so far as to say that I have engaged in knock down, drag outs and looking back I am ashamed and mortified by my behavior. I would also point out, Breeze, (and trust me, I point this out with respect) I have never seen you stoop to this behavior, in fact I always feel quite low when I am around you.

Second~ I have seen a poster or two that has been ridiculed for relatively innocuous statements.

Oops. I didn't know I wasn't supposed to be ladylike . I left my hands-on-your-balls-squeezing-them-tight bitchiness at work.

I don't think I was clear with the bolded part. I did not mean to 'gleefully make fun of' of a genuine question. Most, if not all, regular How-Toers, will NOT make fun of genuine questions. They will make it abundantly clear to non-genuine askers that this type of behaviour will be not be tolerated.

The part that you were referred to needs bit more contexualisation than what I have given. If, after given a chance to clarify, the OP insists on behaving in an inappropriate manner (okay, let's call a spade for a spade: the OP is trolling for attention), then all bets are off.

I was commenting on the general culture. Again, not one person completely embodies a culture - you will find deviances every which way. But cultural phenomena is such that most regular participants of said group will display certain commonalities. In the case of the How-To, there is an intolerance to bullshit - PARTICULARLY after the OP was given the chance to explain.

Let me give you a for example that happened recently: an OP wanted to know about non-consent play - his post indicated that he thinks that this is something his lady wife would enjoy. He was given a chance to explain that no, she a) mentioned that it was HER fantasy and not his and b) that he will obviously discuss it with her, that he, in fact, found the idea slightly disturbing. After that ask for clarification, How-To regulars gave him their advice and in fact directed him to the BDSM library.

Another example: an OP came on and said that she wanted to seduce her brother. They were both drunk. She was warned, multiple times, that this was akin to rape (which she disagreed to because in her words, men cannot be raped), and besides it was her brother. She was, again, asked to clarify. She chose not to and continued in what the How-To deemed to be inappropriate behaviour on multiple levels. She was pretty much flamed and told off.

Or when an OP asks how to get his girlfriend to give him a blowjob, all written in text speak that no one can understand, he was asked to translate that to understandable English. He refused and insisted on bumping and calling one How-To, who patiently deciphered his unintelligent garble and offered him decent advice, a whore because she refused to agree with him. This, as you can imagine, was not exactly tolerated.

These for instances, among many others, is what I - and I would assume many others - meant by 'inappropriate' behaviour. Yes, your modus operandi is to use silence. It's also the way of many other regular How-Toers. But sometimes, when you were pushed over the edge, you just don't want to back down. You also want to maintain your position when challenged. We're all human, after all. However, I will maintained that genuine call for help are answered genuinely, whereas trolls will have their glutei maximi presented on a tarnished platter as NM said above.

It's not that the OP said something that regulars did not like. There has been many instances where an OP has started an intelligent thread on a sore and socially controversial subject matter and no one piled on the OP. Rather, it's when OPs come in and decide to fling fecal matter for the sake of defecating the walls. Actually, NM said it better than I when distinguishing why some OPs get beaten whereas others do not.

If I have to boil it down to one single factor it's respect. Did the OP come in with respect, started a thread with respect and treated the posters with respect. If so, respect will be given in return. This is the culture of the How-To, one that has been in place since its very inception. Culture cannot be created, it has to manifest and evolve - and the culture of the How-To has always been on openness and respect given then returned.

We could be potentially talking about two things. I don't know. But I do hope that I have clarified a few points that seemed to have confused you.

Quite low? Now I am confused!

(and I am not including those threads that deal with 'how-do-I-get-an-AV or 'I'm-loney-wanna-chat or Lit-Chat threads. Those are in every single FAQ that are predominantly posted everywhere)

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

On occasion, I have snarked at the crap spewn forth at times in the HT. I hold steadfast to the belief that most reasonable folks can tell the difference between a "valid" question, and the ramblings of the general troll who is only looking for sympathy, wank fodder, or to try to incite an uprising amongst the populace. Valid questions, even when against the views of the masses will receive respectful responses, the general troll will have their ass handed to them in no uncertain terms.




Anyone who frequents any site, is going to have a sense of ownership, that is what builds the community, and IMHO, these groups have every right to rail against those who intentionally try to upset that balance. You wouldn't allow someone to come into your home and crap in your living room, would you, of course not! The regular members of any community feel just as strongly about trolls entering their online "living space" and crapping. We tend to get a little vocal about that sort of thing.

The general hostility that is being discussed here has nothing to do with "unorthodox views", it has to do with trolls having their asses handed to them. Does this put forward the best side of the members doing so, probably not, that doesn't mean it's any less justified. I have seen many MANY times on this very forum, the question of incest, among other things, come up, as I first stated, it is usually plainly obvious whether it's an honest question or a troll, when the membership feels the question is valid, it gets courteous answers, trolls do not.

If the regulars have the right to be hostile and express their opinions so do others. CHECK MATE.

 

[NightL]

special for jim-bob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAgHr3BbNFE

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I read the rules and failed to put my finger on any article that awards control of the board to the regulars. So tough titty to you.

 

[Bramblethorn]

If I have to boil it down to one single factor it's respect. Did the OP come in with respect, started a thread with respect and treated the posters with respect. If so, respect will be given in return.

Footnote: it's not just about respect for other posters. If somebody comes on wanting validation for being a jerk to their partner, then they're likely to get smacked down. Being polite to jerks (or saying nothing) is not always the best course.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

I'm reminded of the time I operated therapy groups, any time a new member joined the group the regulars became overtly hostile and made life miserable for the new guy. The same group dynamics exist in every social group I know of. Dogs, church, middle school, bulletin boards, work, sports, the army, etc. In Vietnam we had a name for the newbies: FNG, fucking new guy. Its impossible to placate and appease the old hands, what works is to make it plain that they can go fuck themselves if they dont like you.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Footnote: it's not just about respect for other posters. If somebody comes on wanting validation for being a jerk to their partner, then they're likely to get smacked down. Being polite to jerks (or saying nothing) is not always the best course.

Let me challenge your premise that regulars shit marble by virtue of time served, they dont. Nothing in the rules adds stripes to their sleeves.