8L Stats: Average rating by category and page length

[MillieDynamite]

I'll update it again in ten minutes, then.

 

[alohadave]

When did you do that test? I've tried that as a test, and it didn't change by refreshing my screen. I picked an old story, so it wasn't getting a lot of downloads, and I did it fie times, and he didn't change at all.

6 months ago, approximately.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, now we have more than my 30 reloads showing.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Okay, it's now over 23,400. Who's doing that?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Thank you for drawing that up, it validates my unmathmatical theory that a longer story will received a higher score because the reader has to truly hang on until the end. If you write a long bad story the readers will drop before they reach the vote.

However my unscientific brain would like to know how no stories can get an average score. In Group sex there were 0 stories of six and seven pages in length with fairly respectable scores. How do I submit nothing and get 4.90?

I'd guess that's something like a 0.4% which has been rounded to zero.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

When I did this back in 2018, I shared the numbers for all stories and then said that was junk. I then shared the numbers for only stand-alone stories. Over the years, I've come to disagree with that view. SF&F is ~80% chapter postings. N/N is something similar. Does looking at only stand-alone stories in those categories really tell you anything?

Ideally, I'd do this analysis for all stories, and then a similar analysis for only-stand alone stories, and then for only first-chapters in a series, and then for only non-first-chapters in a series. But you know, I only have so many hours in a day.

I don't believe there is anything "wrong" with your data. I was simply explaining that the inability to distinguish between chapters and complete stories makes a comparative analysis, especially with the scores for the different types is concerned, a challenge.

Isn't the standard objective for data such as this for it to be used as a analytical resource, typically for comparative purposes?

The fact that chapters and complete stories cannot be compared is not a knock on the data, just an observed limitation of the data as presented.

 

[8letters]

I'd guess that's something like a 0.4% which has been rounded to zero.

Correct.

 

[Gamblnluck]

The other problem is that averages don't reflect the impact of votes unless you know each vote and analyze that data to determine if the distribution is normal. There are a lot of ways to get to an average of 4.3 with 100 votes.

Yes and if you only have 100 votes you have few reads. Readership (not just a view where the story is opened to possibly examine tags, or skim the intro) is the key.
I see voting works sort of like coupons a store gives out. Ten thousand flyers are spread over town. Hopefully most are read before discarded. Maybe a thousand new customers go to the store to buy something but only 100 bother to bring and use the coupon. Was the advertisement successful enough to justify the expense and work?
I personally my view a story I like several times the first few days. I may skim parts it if it is very long to see if I want to read it then or come back to it later. I read it. I vote and sometimes comment. Then I come back to read other's comments. Sometimes that has me re-reading the story to catch things I might have missed or assumed when I first read it.

 

[Gamblnluck]

I think the LW stories are low because some readers go there just to vote low and comment on how the wife should have been drawn, quartered, and her head put on a pike in the town square.

I disagree. That has been hashed over many times in other threads. Reconciliation stories get very favorable reviews IF that reconciliation is warranted/justified.
The readers there tend to identify more with the characters, and it bothers them when the MC watches his wife disrespect him and he sits passively. Or he is surprised catching his wife in bed with her lover who orders him to come participate as a slave and accept his dominance. Those stories are generally the ones trounced.

 

[MillieDynamite]

By people who view them as true stories and not fiction. Whether they like it or not, they refuse to acknowledge anyone has a right to enjoy the stories. They seek them out to attack the story and, more often than not, the writer. It's deeply personal for them, and they have been known to follow the author into other categories with other kinks only to make comments on all of their stories and downvote them. They are vicious, hurtful, and more than a little disturbed. If it isn't your kink, don't read the story. But they do, with eagerness to get to the end and vent.

I disagree. That has been hashed over many times in other threads. Reconciliation stories get very favorable reviews IF that reconciliation is warranted/justified.
The readers there tend to identify more with the characters, and it bothers them when the MC watches his wife disrespect him and he sits passively. Or he is surprised catching his wife in bed with her lover who orders him to come participate as a slave and accept his dominance. Those stories are generally the ones trounced.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Okay, it's now over 23,400. Who's doing that?

You are simply getting new reads. I see a significant jump in readership of my old stories every time I post a new one. That lasts for a good week or better. The scores do not change much though because of the averaging.

 

[Gamblnluck]

It's deeply personal for them, and they have been known to follow the author into other categories with other kinks only to make comments on all of their stories and downvote them.

Yeah, you will always get some of those who want to downgrade stories in other genres. I generally do not notice that as being a major problem. I try to pick the genre best suited for the story.
I wrote one story 'Wedding Vows" that featured a couple newly married and loving each other. That was NOT enough to put it in LW. it was about a female lead relationship where the family actually had a family hierarchy of dominance as well. I still had comments of what a wimp the guy was to let his new step-daughter dominate and spank him. But the story went into fetish where it belonged.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, She's a Bully was published here on 1/11/23, so not a new story. It is my most favored story, most hearted . But it isn't at 4.45, and won't get to 4.5. It has 300 plus votes, which makes it just about set in stone at 4.43.

You are simply getting new reads. I see a significant jump in readership of my old stories every time I post a new one. That lasts for a good week or better. The scores do not change much though because of the averaging.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Category placement is not the theme of 8letters original premise here but scoring is dependent on that. I'll give you an example other than the one I gave above.
I've had this discussion before where a series of stories were published in fetish and bdsm that featured what the authors saw as femdom, hence his or her posting. However the story had completely racist overtones.
White males were all simpering, small-dicked wimp losers. Black males, on the other hand were dominate, 'manly' studs, powerful both sexually and in their businesses. The women fawned over the Black men and did their best to subjugate their 'worthless white boys'.
I know many will say the author has the wrote to what he/she wants and post wherever, but this type story is best put over in Interracial. I'm not sure what kind of readership IR gets. That might be the reason the author posted in fetish.

 

[Gamblnluck]

Well, She's a Bully was published here on 1/11/23, so not a new story. It is my most favored story, most hearted . But it isn't at 4.45, and won't get to 4.5. It has 300 plus votes, which makes it just about set in stone at 4.43.

I imagine when some look for older stories they look at 'favorite' numbers. But like I said, I get a jump in readership overall just from publishing a new story.
One thing I do is when I get a favorable comment and then see the same reader added me to his favorites, I go that page to see who else he likes and what stories if any he kept. Sometimes that is my source for stories to read rather than just tags when i go for older stories.
300 votes is low for a story 9 months old, but the solid 4.45 rating is solid so your readers obviously like it overall. I will go read it when I get time.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Interracial isn't the most read or voted-on stories category. I don't get a ton of votes on stories that people like, but if they hate, they vote often.

I imagine when some look for older stories they look at 'favorite' numbers. But like I said, I get a jump in readership overall just from publishing a new story.
One thing I do is when I get a favorable comment and then see the same reader added me to his favorites, I go that page to see who else he likes and what stories if any he kept. Sometimes that is my source for stories to read rather than just tags when i go for older stories.
300 votes is low for a story 9 months old, but the solid 4.45 rating is solid so your readers obviously like it overall. I will go read it when I get time.

 

[FifthEstate]

Views is simply page loads, it's an old web1.0 way of traffic counting. A more modern way would be to disregard repeated loads from the same ip address or using a timeout, or using a tracking cookie and/or login credentials to ignore repeated views.

Why would you want to do that? The very nature of this site for most readers is “self gratification”. As an author who writes something good enough that a reader wants to visit it multiple times for that or any other reason, why shouldn’t I be “rewarded” with a view for each of those visits?

I get comments from readers occasionally saying, “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read your XYZ story…”. Not only is that rewarding to hear, but I want those visits to be reflected in my view count. Wouldn’t we all? Otherwise, why even have the ability to have a story “favorited”?

 

[alohadave]

Why would you want to do that? The very nature of this site for most readers is to come here for “self gratification”. As an author who writes something good enough that a reader wants to visit it multiple times for that or any other reason, why shouldn’t I be “rewarded” with a view for each of those visits?

I get comments from readers occasionally saying, “I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read your XYZ story…”. Not only is that rewarding to hear, but I want every one of those visits to be reflected in my view count. Wouldn’t we all? Otherwise, why even have the ability to “favorite” a story?

The short answer is that a page load does not equal a read.

If I have a story open in a tab, and I reload my browser, the page loads again. That's another view to the system. I didn't read it again.

If you wanted to, you could set a timeout for repeated views to 'reward' you for your fans rereading your stories.

 

[Duleigh]

The short answer is that a page load does not equal a read.

If I have a story open in a tab, and I reload my browser, the page loads again. That's another view to the system. I didn't read it again.

If you wanted to, you could set a timeout for repeated views to 'reward' you for your fans rereading your stories.

Page views count for nothing, so what is the big deal? It's not hurting anything so let it be. It's not meant to be a definitive measure for any purpose other than letting the writer know his story is getting attention of some sort. "Fixing" things can lead to other things breaking.

 

[alohadave]

Page views count for nothing, so what is the big deal? It's not hurting anything so let it be. It's not meant to be a definitive measure for any purpose other than letting the writer know his story is getting attention of some sort. "Fixing" things can lead to other things breaking.

I'm not advocating for anything. I just stated how the system works.

Edit: and views do matter to people, whether they matter to you or not.

 

[FifthEstate]

Edit: and views do matter to people, whether they matter to you or not.

Yes, I do agree with you…

 

[8letters]

I'm not advocating for anything. I just stated how the system works.

Edit: and views do matter to people, whether they matter to you or not.

I don't think it matters how views are determined. What matters is consistency. If the site changed how they measured views one day, then it'd be impossible to compare view stats after that day with view stats before that day.

 

[RejectReality]

The views have always been filtered for known bots and spiders. In recent years, that list appears to have expanded dramatically. Views that survive the filter are about 60% of what they were a decade ago. They're probably using a curated list, which are readily available compared to a decade ago.

"Human" reloads are more likely than not to count. If you want to get flagged and your views filtered, experimenting too much with it is probably a good way to do that. LOL I tried one of mine from '09 a few minutes ago and ended up with one more view than my load + 4 reloads. The fifteen minute refresh window ( the shortest ) on your private author page makes it virtually impossible to say anything definitively. Experiments when it was real time ( or a reasonable facsimile thereof ) indicated reloads counted as views. Page changes didn't.

The number of people who are manipulating views ( which only applies to one list that can increase visibility ) is probably miniscule. There's not much incentive. A few people who are egomaniacs. A few rabid fans trying to move their favorite up that one list. All fairly obvious if you watch for a while.

 

[SimonDoom]

I don't think it matters how views are determined. What matters is consistency. If the site changed how they measured views one day, then it'd be impossible to compare view stats after that day with view stats before that day.

I agree with this, and it's an important point.

No matter what system you choose, it will have holes and imperfections. We have no idea what a "view" means in terms of real reads, except that we know that "reads" are some unknown fraction of "views." What we DO know is that there's a correlation, and if the view system is consistent then we at least have a basis for comparing one number with another. If I know that 100,000 people have viewed my story, I don't know how many have read it. But I know to a certainty that more people have read it than a story that has 10,000 views. That's all we need to know. The numbers are always going to be noisy and fuzzy. Relative value is the only value that counts, and that weighs in favor of consistency.

 

[FifthEstate]

I agree with this, and it's an important point.

No matter what system you choose, it will have holes and imperfections. We have no idea what a "view" means in terms of real reads, except that we know that "reads" are some unknown fraction of "views." What we DO know is that there's a correlation, and if the view system is consistent then we at least have a basis for comparing one number with another. If I know that 100,000 people have viewed my story, I don't know how many have read it. But I know to a certainty that more people have read it than a story that has 10,000 views. That's all we need to know. The numbers are always going to be noisy and fuzzy. Relative value is the only value that counts, and that weighs in favor of consistency.