A philosophical problem...

[Shaq]

The following statement is True.
The above statement is False.



Really makes you think about limitated nature of our concept of validity huh?


Zircon has that in his sig...

 

[Guest]

Chicken






























Egg

 

[callableborg]

alert

Terminology inconsistent.

Should be either:

The following statement is true.
The preceding statement is false.

Or:

The statement below is true.
The statement above is false.

Or was that part of the joke?

Just woke up, turned my head on.

 

[crysede]

The following statement is True.
The above statement is False.

Really makes you think about limitated nature of our concept of validity huh?

I agree, the fact that our Western concept of validity is limited to 'true' and 'false' is ridiculous! I think we should adopt the truth values used by the Jains of ancient India: they had a much more sophisticated attitude towards the truth status of statements, admitting seven different possible truth values:

1. maybe it is
2. maybe it is not
3. maybe it is, but it is not
4. maybe it is indeterminate
5. maybe it is, but is indeterminate
6. maybe it is not, but is indeterminate
7. maybe it is, and it is not, and is also indeterminate

Just think how much simpler our lives would be if we were using this more flexible system, problems like the one in your example would cease to plague us!

 

[tassie]

all cats have four legs.

my dog has four legs.

therefore, my dog, is a cat.

simple really

 

[DannyBoyUK]

1 All crows are black

2 Let's (in a moment) imagine we were to have to test that statement......

3 If it is true, it follows that all non-black things are something other than crows (obviously) - it is in essence saying exactly the same thing as "all crows are black"

4 Now - to test the statement we would have to go around finding crows - each one that was black would add more validity to the statement that "all crows are black"

5 But in light of my third paragraph - if I found a green blade of grass - would that not also add (at least a teeny weny bit of) extra validity to the assurance that all crows are black !!??

 

[cymbidia]

Chicken




Egg

If one subscribes to the classical Darwinian theory of evolution, one knows that the egg came first.

Reptiles evolved before Birds.
Amphibians evolved before Reptiles.
Fish evolved before Amphibians.

The egg as a means to insure the reproductive viability of any single individual's bit of the species genetic code evolved long before birds were around to make use of the method.

It's kinda like with cars. You didn't invent and build the first one you ever had. Someone else might even have paid for it and your insurance. You didn't decide you'd not take the car and, instead, build a better means of getting to high school with all your free time. You took the car. We all took the car! Maybe you're still driving it (lots of egg-laying species still exist). Maybe you've moved on to something better (mammals/live birth). But you didn't turn the car down just cuz you didn't invent the damn thing, right?

Fish, amphibians, reptiles, and birds all lay eggs as thier primary means of reproduction. Most mammals have moved on to an inherently different reproductive strategy that requires far different "parenting" than does egg-laying.

However, in the matter of chicken and the egg?
There's no doubt at all that it was, in fact, the egg that came first.

 

[Black_Bird]

Yes; all crows are black.

Right.

 

[Black_Bird]

There's no doubt at all that it was, in fact, the egg that came first.

The Egg is nothing but a very large single cell organism.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by B_B
The Egg is nothing but a very large single cell organism.

What did precede a very large single cell orgasm?
You are not you?

I'm guessing this thread is fucking up many peoples head.

 

[District Line]

The following statement is True.
The above statement is False.

It's called Russell's Paradox I think, named after the British philosopher/mathematician Bertrand Russell. He wrote a dirty fat treatise on how you solve it or how you can classify things so you don't get the problem in the first place.

It's sometimes put as one statement:

It is true that what is being stated in this proposition is false.

Another in a similar vein:

All truths are relative.

 

[Guest]

Unclej?

 

[cymbidia]

The Egg is nothing but a very large single cell organism.

Actually, an egg is not an organism at all, it's just a cell.
An organism is comprised of a bunch of cells.

An ostrich egg is the largest single cell in the world (that we know of at this time).

 

[District Line]

Actually, an egg is not an organism at all, it's just a cell.
An organism is comprised of a bunch of cells.

An ostrich egg is the largest single cell in the world (that we know of at this time).

I don't mean to split hairs but merely as a point of order, there are many types of uni-cellular organisms. Various types of bacteria and protozoa like amoeba etc.

 

[District Line]

<snip>

5 But in light of my third paragraph - if I found a green blade of grass - would that not also add (at least a teeny weny bit of) extra validity to the assurance that all crows are black !!??

No.

There is no addition of 'extra validity.' Validity, is not quantitative.

The existence of a green blade of grass certainly isn't inconsistent with (1), it doesn't go to refute (1). It might be argued that it gives it a weeny bit of inductive strength but it certainly doesn't make it more valid.

 

[Ishmael]

Re: Re: A philosophical problem...

It's called Russell's Paradox I think, named after the British philosopher/mathematician Bertrand Russell. He wrote a dirty fat treatise on how you solve it or how you can classify things so you don't get the problem in the first place.

It's sometimes put as one statement:

It is true that what is being stated in this proposition is false.

Another in a similar vein:

All truths are relative.

Also known as the "Liar's Paradox".

The single sentence version is;

"Everything I say is a lie."

Ishmael

 

[Black_Bird]

What did precede a very large single cell orgasm?

A guy named Bubba and the convenient absence of prison guards.

You are not you?

No. There is a collection of sensations and impressions which, for the sake of the preservation of genetic material, has been prewired to assume that the being subject to these sensations and impressions is the same being that was subject to the sensations and impressions the moment before this. This being is known commonly as "I". I am not I.

And you write too small...

I'm guessing this thread is fucking up many peoples head.

You think too much.

 

[Black_Bird]

Actually, an egg is not an organism at all, it's just a cell.
An organism is comprised of a bunch of cells.

No. An organism is a living thing. I would call an egg living... unless it's in the dairy case.

An orgasm, how ever, is proof that one is alive.

An ostrich egg is the largest single cell in the world (that we know of at this time).

Breakfast anyone?

 

[Ishmael]

No. An organism is a living thing. I would call an egg living... unless it's in the dairy case.

An orgasm, how ever, is proof that one is alive.

On the mark BB.

An egg is a living, breathing (respiring) organism. It's biological name is oocyte. "Cyte" being a combining form meaning cell.

Ishmael

 

[Shaq]

Breakfast anyone?

Waffles with Vermont, not New Hampshire, not Massachutes and not no damn New York City! But Vermont maple syrup with a side of grits with butter, a glass of orange juice and scrambled eggs.

 

[Black_Bird]

Which maple syrup? Generic?