Afghanistan Going Forward

[JohnnySavage]

We shouldn't have our troops anywhere outside the US, unless they are there actively killing someone.

 

[SpeareChucker]

We shouldn't have our troops anywhere outside the US, unless they are there actively killing someone.

Amen.


Meals on wheels was an abject total failure...

 

[jaF0]

They don't need U.S. They resent U.S. for interfering in their affairs. They want U.S. out. If we leave, they won't come after U.S. They existed long before U.S. They don't want U.S. to help them. End of story.

 

[SpeareChucker]

I'm sure they prefer the Taliban to the US.



I'm glad you made that so clear to us.
I guess you just know Afghanistan way better than all of us
including the government experts who believe that most Afghans
really do not wish to travel back in time to the Dark Ages of Fundamentalism...

 

[jaF0]

Their's is not a problem for U.S. to deal with.

 

[ishtat]

Loyalties in Afghanistan are to family, village, tribe, and linguistic/ethnic groups before the slightest concern for nationality. Insofar as there has ever been any effective Afghan identity it has merely been a label for various Pashtun rulers which have bullied everyone else into submission.

On the face of it the Hazaras who speak Persian could join Iran, the Pashtuns similarly could link with Pakistan and the Uzbeks with Uzbekistan. But the Hazara unlike Iranians are of mongoloid race, the Pakistani's cannot control their own border provinces and Uzbek expansion would promote immediate conflict with the Tajiks. Then there are at least another dozen minorities willing to back whichever side gave them the best deal.

Best to leave well alone.

 

[bellisarius]

Loyalties in Afghanistan are to family, village, tribe, and linguistic/ethnic groups before the slightest concern for nationality. Insofar as there has ever been any effective Afghan identity it has merely been a label for various Pashtun rulers which have bullied everyone else into submission.

On the face of it the Hazaras who speak Persian could join Iran, the Pashtuns similarly could link with Pakistan and the Uzbeks with Uzbekistan. But the Hazara unlike Iranians are of mongoloid race, the Pakistani's cannot control their own border provinces and Uzbek expansion would promote immediate conflict with the Tajiks. Then there are at least another dozen minorities willing to back whichever side gave them the best deal.

Best to leave well alone.

Just keep them supplied with goats to play "soccer" with.

 

[jaF0]

Best to leave well alone.

My point. The 'west' has been trying to force western forms of government on tribal based areas that never had much government in their history. It ain't a'gonna work.

 

[FlowersForFun]

We shouldn't have our troops anywhere outside the US, unless they are there actively killing someone.

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup.

We'll give joint training a pass because training is good.

I'd even be willing to compromise on being invited guest given the right set of circumstances.

But the forever quasi occupations, winning hearts and minds buu shit? That shit has got to stop.

It will never be a “win”.

You can’t beat an insurgent, the hidden enemy within the population, unless you’re willing to go completely “scorched earth”.

We’re limited to either being bogged down forever, swift and blinding violence of an overwhelming nature, or walking away.

My point. The 'west' has been trying to force western forms of government on tribal based areas that never had much government in their history. It ain't a'gonna work.

^^ I agree with these two posts 100%.

If we're not ready to go own that mother fucker? And I mean OWN that fucker as in kill everyone and set up shop.

We just need to leave.

And that means that the US will ignore all the US and allied dead in Afghanistan just for an election?

You, and your allies, need better politicians than that.

Dude, the (D)'s are literally burning the house down just for an election. Rioting, arson, murder.

They don't give ANY fucks about the efforts in Afghanistan.

Shit just look at how they readily trash and talk shit about them as soon as one of them dare to not toe the "progressive" line.

Don't support communism? Well then you're just a hypocrite sucking off the government tit, living on the welfare state with all the free handouts for thee but none for anyone else!

The left fucking hates our military and it's personnel.

The 'progress' we've made is to further destabilize the region and foster increased hatred of the west. We need to get out and let them resolve their own issues. We don't poke them, they won't poke us. They did just fine for 10,000 years before U.S.

That's some willfully ignorant shit right there.

Greed for oil led us there to begin with. Greed alone is the cause.

Afghanistan isn't oil rich....quite the opposite, you must be thinking of Iraq. A totally different place, which is the lefty narrative, but doesn't make any sense either.

You clearly don't have any idea what the fuck you're talking about.

If the US was ready to go rock a 3rd world shit hole for it's oil Venezuela would have been a much easier, closer and richer target than Iraq.

Their's is not a problem for U.S. to deal with.

Maybe it's not....maybe it is....question is are we willing to do what is needed to resolve it??

If not then we should stay home.

 

[RobDownSouth]

BoBo the Warfighter hates the Geneva Accords.
*nods*

 

[Rightguide]

Fuck'em. Let them kill each other and if they fuck with us again isolate them economically, flatten their infrastruture, and put them back in the stone age.

 

[hogjack]

Opium accounts for one-third of the Afghan economy.

Afghan citizens know what they are doing and can increase their harvests once external military forces depart.

Get out and leave them alone.

 

[FlowersForFun]

BoBo the Warfighter hates the Geneva Accords.
*nods*

Rob....making shit up again, it's just what he does. *nods*

 

[oggbashan]

Opium accounts for one-third of the Afghan economy.

Afghan citizens know what they are doing and can increase their harvests once external military forces depart.

Get out and leave them alone.

IF the US and its allies had accepted opium production for medical purposes the Taleban would have lost income and power. But opposing the major cash crop was counter-productive.

 

[RobDownSouth]

If we're not ready to go own that mother fucker? And I mean OWN that fucker as in kill everyone and set up shop.

BoBo the Warfighter hates the Geneva Accords.
*nods*

Rob....making shit up again, it's just what he does. *nods*

You advocate killing "everyone", a direct violation of the Geneva Accords, and when I point out that indiscriminate killing is a direct violation of the Geneva Accords, rather than stepping up and owning your own words, you accuse me of lying.

That's textbook gaslighting. "I never said what you just quoted me as saying! That is a lie!"

 

[FlowersForFun]

You advocate killing "everyone",

And there is the lie.

I don't advocate it, I listed it as the only way to "win" the place.

I actually advocated leaving there some 13 years ago and have ever since.

But hey!! Don't let that stop you from being dishonest.

and when I point out that indiscriminate killing is a direct violation of the Geneva Accords

You mean accuse me of hating the Geneva Accords? Not the same thing...you can't even be honest about what YOU said, as if we can't look a couple post back and see what a fucking liar you are.

You have to lie about absolutely EVERYTHING, including what YOU say.

rather than stepping up and owning your own words, you accuse me of lying.

Why should I own the bullshit you make up and ascribe to me Rob?

That's textbook gaslighting. "I never said what you just quoted me as saying! That is a lie!"

That's a fact, not gaslighting.

Gaslighting is what you just attempted and failed miserably at with all the lies and ascription you're cranking out in this thread.

 

[RobDownSouth]

"Just because I said I believed it doesn't mean I actually believed what I said!"

Mighty fine rationalizations being slung around here today by BoBo.

 

[FlowersForFun]

"Just because I said I believed it doesn't mean I actually believed what I said!"

Except I never said I did.

You continue to lie...compulsively, you can't help it at this point can you??

Mighty fine rationalizations being slung around here today by BoBo.

Your lies are still not my "rationalizations" Rob.

And they never will be.

You tried bullshitting and got torn apart for it, thanks for playing Junior....better luck next time

 

[hogjack]

IF the US and its allies had accepted opium production for medical purposes the Taleban would have lost income and power. But opposing the major cash crop was counter-productive.

Correct. It's time to let Afghanistan be Afghanistan until something arises from there that needs put down again.

Besides, everyone knows intelligence agencies generate off-the-books operational funds from opium production. Intelligence agencies have a right to earn their illicit cash!

 

[WillJ8787]

This isn't a question of 20-20 hindsight...

Nope, 20/20 foresight.

Afghanistan is a political football for both parties. If an opportunity presents itself for either to use it, they will...

...Regardless the cost in us military service person lives. At the moment it's just a can on the side of the road, their all waiting for the moment to kick...it hasn't arrived yet.

 

[oggbashan]

Nope, 20/20 foresight.

Afghanistan is a political football for both parties. If an opportunity presents itself for either to use it, they will...

...Regardless the cost in us military service person lives. At the moment it's just a can on the side of the road, their all waiting for the moment to kick...it hasn't arrived yet.

And if they leave their allies in the shit? So what, they don't vote.

 

[RobDownSouth]

BoBo is selling the "perpetual victim card" quite hard today.

Woe is me, woe is me,
Poor, poor, pitiful Lee.

 

[FlowersForFun]

BoBo is selling the "perpetual victim card" quite hard today.

Woe is me, woe is me,
Poor, poor, pitiful Lee.

Rob, continues to make shit up, because that's all he's got.

Pointing out what a dishonest, racist and spiteful sack of shit you are isn't playing any victim card.

Have a GREAT day Rob

 

[Ziggins]

Sunk cost fallacy. 18 years, many lives, trillions of dollars, we can't just walk away from that, until there's nothing else left to do. The USA is running out of money and soldiers willing to kill and die there.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Teh Internetz embiggens BoBo to "talk tuff".
*nods*