Am I Being Unfair

[bumpinthenight2022]

This being a literary and sex positive community, I hope my post is welcome. I'm going to try to "one-shot" this and put all relevant details in the original post.

I (38M) have been with my soon-to-be wife (37F) for about 10 years. Around year 5, for me, the NRE (new relationship energy) was wearing off. That's not a bad thing and perfectly natural, quite honestly, I'm surprised it lasted that long. We had grown very routine. It had to be one of three positions, it had to be in bed. I had to initiate. I try to introduce a little spontaneity, a little riskiness, a little kink. I'm trying to pull over and take her in places we used to do when we were new. I'm texting her freaky stuff. I'm trying to add dirty talking. All rejected. She would snap on me, offended that I'm not taking her home. Ignore my texts. Not really be responsive during dirty talk because "she doesn't know how." All the while claiming she's really enjoying sex with me. But I'm bored to tears.

Ever giving that college try, I think maybe it felt "sprung" on her and I needed to communicate to get us on the same page, so I do. I'm trying to explain what I'm doing, and why. Basically stuff like "Hey, I love you, I enjoy sex with you, I only want sex with you, but I don't exactly feel 'desire' from you and this is what we can do to start that. I've gone 5+ years without feeling 'desire' and I know you think you're giving me that by being sexually available, but being available and desiring me are two separate things, and surprise surprise, I'm not a walking erection, I'm a human being who needs to feel something, too."

My thing was not that I needed some radical, permanent change. Let's call these "pathways to intimacy." I just needed more than one pathway to intimacy. Yes, sometimes it's exactly what she wants. But also, sometimes it's exactly what I want. Sometimes it's a mixture of our desires. Etc. That keeps it from being routine, IMO.

I spent years of patience trying to communicate this to her and we finally had this kinda "blowout" where she says:
- What you want is weird
- My friend agrees so
- I've never had to put in this kind of effort

I don't think I have to go too deep on how problematic each of those are. It's not like I'm asking you to play with my butt, I just want you to text me sexy thoughts/let me know you desire me ... and that's weird? Ok. You're sharing my private intimate conversations with your friends and shaming me for it, who knows how far that's gone. And you're comparing me to exes. Perfect.

That was around Year 8.

Fast forward to Year 9 and some major shit hits the fan. Not gonna lie, I cheated. At this point in our relationship she was breaking up with me constantly over stupid shit. For example, I have a text thread between us where (1) I'm down with the cold, (2) it's below freezing outside, (3) she asks me to go out for smoothies, (4) I decline for reasons #1 and #2, so (5) she breaks up with me. We're in our 30s. I'm not dumb. I'm thinking she must have a guy on the side and she's taking testing those waters. So I'm like fuck it. First cute chick to say what's up is getting this dick dropped off in her. Toxic, I know. And wrong. I'm not blaming her, I own my actions.

She finds out, it's Armageddon, of course.

But then... Her own bullshit comes out.

In Year 1, she broke up with me, again one of those trivial things. I helped her buy a house and it turns out, she suddenly had this interest in personal fitness. She's 5'0, 110 lbs. And what do you know, a personal trainer lives across the street. I immediately tell her I'm not cool with this shit, find another trainer. Your trainer doesn't need to know where you live, the time you home, and definitely not doesn't need to know the time I'm home. She calls me insecure, continues to see him. He's an ex con, converted to Islam in the pen, and one day she comes home talking about she's considering converting to Islam--mind you,

 

[bumpinthenight2022]

she and I had altogether stopped talking faith because we follow two slightly different philosophies of Christianity. Today she'll lie about it and say that no, she was only expressing admiration for his knowledge of the faith (as if that's better). I'm like absolutely not, end this shit now. Shortly thereafter she breaks up WITH ME.

Anyway, I'm a dumbass. I'm pining after this woman because I think she's the love of my life.

I chase her for 7 weeks. We get back together, I haven't been with anyone, she swears she hasn't been with anyone.

So let's get back to her bullshit coming out.

She was fucking her trainer for those 7 weeks. Not only that, SHE'S BEEN "WORKING OUT" WITH THE SAME GUY ON AND OFF FOR THE PAST 7 YEARS.

How did this come out? She even started taking her daughter to him. He tried to fuck her daughter. She told me before she filed the police report because she knew their relationship would come out in the investigation. But she swears they haven't had sex in those 7 years. I believe this about as much as I believe pigs can fly.

But this comes out literally like, 3 or 4 months after my cheating comes out. I'm torn. She showed me grace, I think I owe her grace.

But now, suddenly, there's this interest in all these sexual things I had been talking about. The timing isn't lost on me. Here's what I have learned in my nearly 40 years:

Woman can, and often do, fuck more than one guy at a time. But only one of those guys will be "him," ... the guy she really wants. She might not necessarily want a relationship from "him" for various reasons, but that's who activates get kinda primal nature. And that's reserved exclusively for him. The other guys trying to get that from her will only get rejection as a response.

So I'm looking at the timing of this sudden interest in my sexual needs and I'm like no... I don't want second-hand desire. Before, I just thought you were super-vanilla and lazy. Before, I thought you were just disgusted at the idea of having to show desire. Now I know you were disgusted at the thought of showing me desire.

We have maintenance sex a couple of times a month. That's it. That's all. I'm adjusted to it, and I'm turned off at her efforts of trying to do more. It's not a bad idea when I say it but a good idea when she says it. And certainly considering the timing, there's no way that I can feel it's anything other than second-hand desire. Now that "he" is out of the way, suddenly she has all this unspent energy and interest. And I'm, honestly, disgusted at the idea.

So why are we getting married. All those years ago when we got back together, we pretty much immediately conceived a child (yes I tested her after the news and she is mine). My daughter is the apple of my eye. And I honestly feel like it's less psychological and emotional strain to make it work for the next 10 years than to fight her in court, deal with flying my daughter back and forth, and the strain of not seeing her every day. We already more her mother can be too clueless to not notice her little boyfriend groping her older daughter, so no, I don't trust her choices in my absence.

So... What are your thoughts? Should I try to reset my thinking and be more sexually open with her? How do I overcome this block that I have of knowing that she really doesn't want to do it? (which zaps my ability to enjoy it, I need enthusiastic consent, if I sense anything less than that I'm not interested). Is my current position rational? Sound off!

 

[BrentJW]

Good god! Before you mention you have a daughter with her, I was going to say “ life is short, move on”. Now, all I can say is, find a REALLY good counselor. Do not marry.

 

[KatieDoes]

Do not get married. Your daughter deserves better than to grow up with this level of toxicity being normalized and modeled for her. You don’t even like each other.

 

[Noor]

You put this woman under a sexual pressure cooker for years, you had an affair and she obviously snapped.
If you keep pushing anyone to do something they are uncomfortable with, they will shut down on you.
You made your relationship all about sex. How go are you at the 3 positions she is comfortable with? In many ways you are lucky she still has sex with you at all. There are so many men on this board whose female partners stopped having sex with them long ago.
As a mom, she also has priorities beyond sex.
Sexual experimentation is more likely is the person is unpressured by sexual demands, has fun and great amazing sex with whatever sex they have and has time away from other pressures of life to explorer.
I think counseling is your only hope in hell.

 

[bumpinthenight2022]

You put this woman under a sexual pressure cooker for years, you had an affair and she obviously snapped.
If you keep pushing anyone to do something they are uncomfortable with, they will shut down on you.
You made your relationship all about sex. How go are you at the 3 positions she is comfortable with? In many ways you are lucky she still has sex with you at all. There are so many men on this board whose female partners stopped having sex with them long ago.
As a mom, she also has priorities beyond sex.
Sexual experimentation is more likely is the person is unpressured by sexual demands, has fun and great amazing sex with whatever sex they have and has time away from other pressures of life to explorer.
I think counseling is your only hope in hell.

Put her under sexual pressure?

What pressure do you think I put her under? Be specific. Because either I think you (A) did not comprehend my post, (B) are taking your personal issues and injecting them into my post or, (C) are taking observations from across this forum, and injecting them into my post.

All I wanted from her was to feel desire. To feel like after 5+ years, she hungered for me as much as I hungered for her. And while yes, the conversation extended for several years, what are you imagining, every day I'm assaulting her with demands for expressions of desire? Cause that ain't it.

Now, if your assertion is that it's normal and/or healthy for ANY partner, male or female to NOT make the other person feel desired/wanted, and it's in fact abnormal and "pressuring" to communicate for that to change, then you're the last person I want any advice from. Thanks.

 

[Escierto]

If you want to spend the next ten years of your life mucking around in a toxic pit making life miserable for three people, by all means continue your present course.

 

[Noor]

Put her under sexual pressure?

What pressure do you think I put her under? Be specific. Because either I think you (A) did not comprehend my post, (B) are taking your personal issues and injecting them into my post or, (C) are taking observations from across this forum, and injecting them into my post.

All I wanted from her was to feel desire. To feel like after 5+ years, she hungered for me as much as I hungered for her. And while yes, the conversation extended for several years, what are you imagining, every day I'm assaulting her with demands for expressions of desire? Cause that ain't it.

Now, if your assertion is that it's normal and/or healthy for ANY partner, male or female to NOT make the other person feel desired/wanted, and it's in fact abnormal and "pressuring" to communicate for that to change, then you're the last person I want any advice from. Thanks.

“I try to introduce a little spontaneity, a little riskiness, a little kink. I'm trying to pull over and take her in places we used to do when we were new. I'm texting her freaky stuff. I'm trying to add dirty talking. All rejected.”

You don’t have to be pushing all the time, you just have to not hear no. So each time you try, it adds to the pile.
She is saying something that you aren’t hearing. You’re not hearing. Maybe she was giving all she could at the time.
You’re obviously are not seeing what you’ve been doing in the same light as your partners does. I tried to image why someone react as she did, and that is what I came up with.
I’m not saying this is good, but based on this board it seems quiet common for marriages to become less sexual and even sexless after a time or to ebb and flow.
I am an initiator, and I am usually more open than my partners, but I know being exhausted, hormonal issues and depression will shut down sex in many I know, mainly males, but I assume females too.
In my experience, if there are not physical or hormonal problems, sex usually stops when there are other problems in the relationship. Have you asked her why?
It sounds like you are not helping her feel desire for you so much that she choose a pretty bad person instead, if she did in fact have sex with the guy who could have been using her to get at your daughter.
If you didn’t need advice from outside your own thoughts, you wouldn’t be asking here.
I am trying to help.

 

[bumpinthenight2022]

Correction on your timeline... We were still hot and heavy when she broke up with me too fuck her trainer on a "clear conscious." This was in Year 1.

It was in Y5 that I was trying to ignite a spark.

Make her feel desire for me?

I'm 6'4", slim/fit, conventionally attractive (that's the physical), hung
I've always made more than her, but we're both high income. Even at that point, I out earned her by 50%, and she outearns most men. I pretty much never let her touch her wallet.
She'll tell you herself I'm a great, active dad. Worst case scenario, we pretty evenly split responsibility. Reality, that rn for example, she travels for work and I'm more or less our child's sole caregiver.
Socially, I'm pretty normal, I guess. Diverse interests ranging from my motorcycle club, to my pilots club (learning to fly recreationally), a good set of friends I've collected along my journey and I make friends wherever I go. I'm not awkward or necessarily "reserved." But I am chill and try to not be annoying, either, as one of those guys that's just too cocksure.

We have dated, traveled, etc.

In terms of why she fucked her trainer ... I have a hard time thinking it's anything I wasn't giving her at that time. She had my whole heart. So much so that when we got back together after those 7 weeks and she said she wanted a baby, I said ok.

I think it's more she was just crushing on this ex con who gave her a different thrill than I did.

 

[barefootgirl69]

At this point, it doesn't matter who was zooming who and when and where and why. None of this goes away just because you add wedding vows to the mix.

It's obvious neither of you are ready to be married to each other. Staying together for your child's sake isn't always a good thing. She's watching and can feel the undercurrent in your relationship with her mom.

She's learning "what relationships are like" from both of you, what she should expect from a man, how she should react by the way her mom acts.

 

[Otis_Ravelli]

Make her feel desire for me?

I'm 6'4", slim/fit, conventionally attractive (that's the physical), hung
I've always made more than her, but we're both high income. Even at that point, I out earned her by 50%, and she outearns most men. I pretty much never let her touch her wallet.

So you felt you were making her feel desire for you by... existing and paying for stuff?

If you think being attractive and earning good money is all you need to do to fulfil all her emotional needs I'm not surprised she sought something more. A relationship takes work on both sides and yet this seems to suggest that she should feel desire for you because of your looks and salary which are two things that would be facts about you anyway regardless of if you together or not. That you think that's enough to arouse constant desire in someone suggests that you don't really get her are all and certainly shouldn't be marrying her.

 

[bumpinthenight2022]

So you felt you were making her feel desire for you by... existing and paying for stuff?

If you think being attractive and earning good money is all you need to do to fulfil all her emotional needs I'm not surprised she sought something more. A relationship takes work on both sides and yet this seems to suggest that she should feel desire for you because of your looks and salary which are two things that would be facts about you anyway regardless of if you together or not. That you think that's enough to arouse constant desire in someone suggests that you don't really get her are all and certainly shouldn't be marrying her.

I never said that. But most general conversation on this kind of thing is centered on these issues, which in my relationship, are not issues.

Would you prefer a full inventory of my personality?

You should understand as well as anyone that any conversation such as this one attempts to balance brevity with detail.

 

[Mike130]

It’s a tough situation. Obviously you love her and your daughter. She may not feel the same way towards you, and her sex drive may seem diminished. That could be for a number of reasons. Medical, stress, job. Many of us have faced that situation. I don’t envy women, and looking back from the perspective of age, wow! My wife had to prepare lunches, worry about school, her job, the kid’s health, no time to herself, sex was probably the last thing on her mind.

We had a similar situation partway through our marriage. Mostly job stress and probably a sense of boredom with each other. Went to a counselor. She was dismissive of it. Somehow we prevailed. Married almost 40 years now. Set a decent example for the kids. Never fought in front of them. I never raised my voice. Randomly would kiss my wife on the head for no reason. Showed love. Forgot and forgave past transgressions. Keep separate bank accounts, no need to fight over money. Different hobbies. Some similar interests. Yes, we still have sex. Not as frequently, but still as passionately. And love has grown.

I guess what I’m saying is that time gives us a clearer picture of what a relationship should be. A relationship by definition is passion, it’s not logical. It’s not perfect and sex over time may take a backseat in the relationship if there are other things that keep you together.

I think Barefoot Girl had the best advice. You’re probably not ready for marriage, and the inevitable fights that you’ll have will not serve as a good example to your daughter. Everyone knows that half of marriages end in divorce.

No one here has the same insight to your relationship as you have. You’re an intelligent, articulate person. Think of it from your side. From her side. From your daughter’s side. You obviously have feelings for this woman. I’m not sure they’re reciprocal. You have to be objective, although love seldom is.

 

[Noor]

Correction on your timeline... We were still hot and heavy when she broke up with me too fuck her trainer on a "clear conscious." This was in Year 1.

It was in Y5 that I was trying to ignite a spark.

Make her feel desire for me?

I'm 6'4", slim/fit, conventionally attractive (that's the physical), hung
I've always made more than her, but we're both high income. Even at that point, I out earned her by 50%, and she outearns most men. I pretty much never let her touch her wallet.
She'll tell you herself I'm a great, active dad. Worst case scenario, we pretty evenly split responsibility. Reality, that rn for example, she travels for work and I'm more or less our child's sole caregiver.
Socially, I'm pretty normal, I guess. Diverse interests ranging from my motorcycle club, to my pilots club (learning to fly recreationally), a good set of friends I've collected along my journey and I make friends wherever I go. I'm not awkward or necessarily "reserved." But I am chill and try to not be annoying, either, as one of those guys that's just too cocksure.

We have dated, traveled, etc.

In terms of why she fucked her trainer ... I have a hard time thinking it's anything I wasn't giving her at that time. She had my whole heart. So much so that when we got back together after those 7 weeks and she said she wanted a baby, I said ok.

I think it's more she was just crushing on this ex con who gave her a different thrill than I did.

Unfortunately, not hot and heavy enough for her to not want the trainer.
She obviously desired him enough to risk your relationship
You are providing her with what you feel she should want and need, but by her actions it is not what she feels she needs.

Anyway, you guys have a lot of issues and I think it would be unwise to get married without coming to sone resolution about them, if you can talk about them alone with each other, perhaps counseling?

 

[rainbowbite]

I don't think you are going to be able to navigate out of this toxic cesspool without both of you going to therapy alone, as well as a couple. Your daughter deserves to not grow up thinking that this is how normal relationships work. Sticking it out for ten years may sound good to you in theory but living them is another. Mental health support is a good thing for everyone.

 

[Oshkosh60]

Move on..... stay in contact with your child.....get a lawyer or an arbitrator to set up visitation and all the legal stuff.

Then.... you need some therapy and you should go solo until you get your emotional state straightened out.

Don't make it a pissing match. Be tolerant to any bull shit. Do not respond to any verbal abuse and especially any texts, never communicate by text, Just say it's time for both of you to find partners that are better suited to you both.

Your daughter deserves better from both of you.

 

[Typo Fu Master]

You were getting regular sex and it wasn't enough for you because you two apparently have different kinks. Then you both cheated, and had a kid together. It's a tough spot to be in and personal feelings aside, marrying for the sake of the kid is not going to end well.

 

[Britva415]

All I wanted from her was to feel desire

You don’t see how that’s pressure? You basically told her that what she’s doing sexually with you isn’t good enough, she’s not desiring you right.