An announcement about my future publishing on Literotica

[EmilyMiller]

To reiterate, I’m not quitting AH. So if one objective of bombing my stories into oblivion was to silence me, try harder!

I’ll reply to some of the responses later, when I have time. And I’ll use the opportunity to more clearly explain what is going on. I don’t see any downside to doing that now.

But for now, thank you for the kinds words from virtually everyone .

 

[StillStunned]

But for now, thank you for the kinds words from virtually everyone .

We're all virtual here!

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The site doesn't owe us a damn thing. None of us are important in the grand scheme of things. Guess what, none of those other sites care about you either.

I won't argue your basic premise, but I think the point is the lack of support some people feel from a site which (presumably) has the ability to deal with some longstanding issues.

If someone really believes that they would be winning all the contests if it wasn't for those dastardly one bombers, there is an incredibly simple solution. Create another account, don't say a word in the AH, and be like the thousands of authors who post on Lit without ever setting foot in the AH. No target on your back, and your brilliant stories will cruise to victory every time.

Again, you are quite correct, but that ignores the effort many authors have put in towards building, if you like, a brand. Yes, Stephen King could put out his next novel under a pen name, but that would deprive him of the attention of those readers wanting to read something by Stephen King. I personally don't think it right that authors should have to flourish only in anonymity.

Nor is it a question of sour grapes ("I only lost because of the one-bombs!"). I think it more proper to say that some feel that they are being deprived of the chance of balanced recognition.

Nor is it likely that all such attacks are always due to unscrupulous writers trying to promote their own works. It might, of course, and old-timers on Lit will remember this very thing happening on a large scale. It might be due to irritation with the opinions expressed in the forums. It might be due to someone being upset at something in a writer's works - how many times have we heard that a story in Loving Wives has brought a flury of bombs on other stories by the same writer? It might simply be due to misanthropy - a bombing of any story doing well. The point is that it doesn't matter. People here are complaining of the lack of a level playing field and the lack of feedback from the site.

 

[SimonDoom]

You have to do whatever works for you in terms of achieving satisfaction as an author. If what's going on at this place is spoiling the fun, you are entitled to take your stories elsewhere. But I'm sorry you are making that choice. Your readers will be worse off for it, and I think you will find it difficult to find another venue where so many people can read and appreciate your stories.

You indicated above that people are bombing your stories into oblivion. I don't know what's going on with your stories, as far as bombing is concerned, but I can guess, based on my own experience.

You check two key boxes for getting bullseyed with negative feedback:

1. You're very outspoken in this forum, increasing the chance that you've pissed somebody off, and
2. The range of kinks you explore in your stories is extremely wide, again increasing the chance that you're going to piss some people off. You have a number of series where from chapter to chapter you switch categories; this greatly increases the chances of pissing off readers because some readers don't like kink-switching.

But you know what? It's a good thing. You can be content that you are scratching your own artistic itch, damn other people's expectations, and the result is, whatever the score, you have far more admirers than detractors. You've gained a lot of followers in only a few years.

You may be experiencing "bombing"; I don't know. But you do not face oblivion. That's not going to happen, regardless of what the bombers do. I know from experience that scores do not impede one's ability to "succeed" here. My mean story score is only 4.52, which is lower than yours and lower, from what I can tell, than that of most of the authors who complain about bombing and having their scores lowered. It hasn't slowed me down or dampened my enjoyment of publishing here one bit.

Take a break if it's necessary. But think about it. You're free to change your mind any time and everybody will be glad and welcome you back if you do.

 

[Soixenta]

@EmilyMiller I am happy that you will stick around, hopefully to share your wisdom and insights with us less experienced writers. Your suggestion for my new story was the spark I needed to get out of the rut and move the story forward. Thank you!

 

[Kelliezgirl]

I won't argue your basic premise, but I think the point is the lack of support some people feel from a site which (presumably) has the ability to deal with some longstanding issues.



Again, you are quite correct, but that ignores the effort many authors have put in towards building, if you like, a brand. Yes, Stephen King could put out his next novel under a pen name, but that would deprive him of the attention of those readers wanting to read something by Stephen King. I personally don't think it right that authors should have to flourish only in anonymity.

Nor is it a question of sour grapes ("I only lost because of the one-bombs!"). I think it more proper to say that some feel that they are being deprived of the chance of balanced recognition.

Nor is it likely that all such attacks are always due to unscrupulous writers trying to promote their own works. It might, of course, and old-timers on Lit will remember this very thing happening on a large scale. It might be due to irritation with the opinions expressed in the forums. It might be due to someone being upset at something in a writer's works - how many times have we heard that a story in Loving Wives has brought a flury of bombs on other stories by the same writer? It might simply be due to misanthropy - a bombing of any story doing well. The point is that it doesn't matter. People here are complaining of the lack of a level playing field and the lack of feedback from the site.

Presumably is carrying quite a bit of weight in that argument. None of us know what the site's capabilities are, and any system designed to catch these alleged one bombers would involve trying to track and identify anonymous users. That brings up some HUGE privacy issues for rank and file users. So sure, compromise the privacy of the readers because a hand full of authors have their feels hurt over alleged voting patterns. Does anyone really think that plays to Lit's long term interests? How many readers does Lit lose if word gets out they are working hard to track users?


There have been countless discussions on this site with everyone agreeing that the scores don't mean anything, don't accurately reflect the quality of a story etc. So why should the site waste time and money trying to "fix" something that the AH contingent says doesn't matter anyway?

At the end of the day Lit is a business, and the question is what is best for their business model. As I said before, it's absurd to expect that in a site with literally thousands of authors, Laurel and Manu should be at anyone's beck and call. None of us are all that important to the site. I've gone on the record before saying the occasional post from Laurel or Manu with an update would be nice, but they don't owe us that.

 

[ChloeTzang]

I've gone on the record before saying the occasional post from Laurel or Manu with an update would be nice, but they don't owe us that.

There i'd disagree.

We supply the content for the site that draws eyes and clicks, and as far as I'm concerned. the quid pro quo is, apart from the eyes, give us a UI to use that works and if there are major glitches that impact us, let us know about them and about what's being done about them. It's not much effort to write a short post and it would actually save Laurel and Manu a huge amount of junk mail in their inboxes.

 

[AchtungNight]

It feels like at the Round Table, Lancelot seat is empty.

The original Round Table had a seat called the Siege Perilous that was reserved for the purest truest knight and usually remained empty. If a knight didn’t measure up to its standards, a magical compulsion made them get up if they sat in it. Only Galahad, who found the Grail, bastard son of Lancelot in some legends, could pass the test.

There’s probably a story in this, but I don’t think I want to write it.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Presumably is carrying quite a bit of weight in that argument. None of us know what the site's capabilities are, and any system designed to catch these alleged one bombers would involve trying to track and identify anonymous users. That brings up some HUGE privacy issues for rank and file users. So sure, compromise the privacy of the readers because a hand full of authors have their feels hurt over alleged voting patterns. Does anyone really think that plays to Lit's long term interests? How many readers does Lit lose if word gets out they are working hard to track users?

The problem with voting abuse is a recurring topic, and all has already been said about it. For some, it's an issue; for some, it's not. Laurel used to take some action to curb the impact of such voting, but with everything that's been going on lately, that's not the case anymore.

Most of all, it's proof that Lit's voting system was badly designed. It relied on administrator actions to offset misuse. The misuse has always been there; there were people who suffered from it for years. It's just that it's more obvious now.

Back when the website mostly functioned, I was booed down every time I brought up the problem and suggested solutions, as imperfect as they were. Honestly, I couldn't care less about it now when it started impacting contests or some specific people. These things aren't suddenly more important than they used to be. It's a case of a problem AH kept downplaying that came back to bite them in the ass. At least some of them.

There have been countless discussions on this site with everyone agreeing that the scores don't mean anything, don't accurately reflect the quality of a story etc. So why should the site waste time and money trying to "fix" something that the AH contingent says doesn't matter anyway?

Scores don't mean much as a measure of story quality, true. But they are important to attract readership and thus matter to us by necessity. But Laurel doesn't have a single reason to care about them. It's just us who care, and since this isn't a partnership or symbiosis, her lack of care about the misuse of the scoring system is understandable and expected.

At the end of the day Lit is a business, and the question is what is best for their business model. As I said before, it's absurd to expect that in a site with literally thousands of authors, Laurel and Manu should be at anyone's beck and call. None of us are all that important to the site. I've gone on the record before saying the occasional post from Laurel or Manu with an update would be nice, but they don't owe us that.

You're correct, once again. They don't owe us shit, for sure. They don't need to care about our needs and problems. The way they behave reflects such an attitude, and that's okay, as long as everyone understands that.

But what also MUST be said is that we don't owe them shit either. This isn't a partnership. We aren't friends or partners, or working towards the same goal. And regardless of some people's emotional approaches to Lit, we don't owe Lit any loyalty.
In some aspects, our interests even clash. So we should also be looking after our own interests only and do what we can to meet them. That includes NOT booing down fellow authors who complain when Literotica acts against their interests as authors, when it's coldly silent and doesn't care about their needs.

 

[StillStunned]

Only Galahad, who found the Grail, bastard son of Lancelot in some legends, could pass the test.

There’s probably a story in this, but I don’t think I want to write it.

If I remember my Mallory, Galahad was essentially "Lancelot 2.0". Remember that Lancelot was supposed to be his nickname ("small lance", hur-hur!), and his real name was Galahad. So his "son" was a rebooted version, minus the juicy courtly love affair and so qualifying to find the Grail.

And Galahad wasn't the only knight who found the Grail in Mallory: Bors and Percival were there with him. I believe Bors returned to King Arthur's court, Percival stayed with the Grail and Galahad ascended into heaven.

(But it's all a load of bollocks anyway, and the Grail was just a Christian corruption of the pre-Christian idea of the king's health being tied to the land's health. And don't get me started on all that nonsense about the "sang real" that became popular with "The Da Vinci Code".)

 

[ChloeTzang]

If I remember my Mallory, Galahad was essentially "Lancelot 2.0". Remember that Lancelot was supposed to be his nickname ("small lance", hur-hur!), and his real name was Galahad. So his "son" was a rebooted version, minus the juicy courtly love affair and so qualifying to find the Grail.

And Galahad wasn't the only knight who found the Grail in Mallory: Bors and Percival were there with him. I believe Bors returned to King Arthur's court, Percival stayed with the Grail and Galahad ascended into heaven.

(But it's all a load of bollocks anyway, and the Grail was just a Christian corruption of the pre-Christian idea of the king's health being tied to the land's health. And don't get me started on all that nonsense about the "sang real" that became popular with "The Da Vinci Code".)

Totally off the thread topic but my favorite novel on Arthur is Rosemary Sutcliffe's "Sword at Sunset"

 

[alohadave]

If I remember my Mallory, Galahad was essentially "Lancelot 2.0". Remember that Lancelot was supposed to be his nickname ("small lance", hur-hur!), and his real name was Galahad. So his "son" was a rebooted version, minus the juicy courtly love affair and so qualifying to find the Grail.

And Galahad wasn't the only knight who found the Grail in Mallory: Bors and Percival were there with him. I believe Bors returned to King Arthur's court, Percival stayed with the Grail and Galahad ascended into heaven.

(But it's all a load of bollocks anyway, and the Grail was just a Christian corruption of the pre-Christian idea of the king's health being tied to the land's health. And don't get me started on all that nonsense about the "sang real" that became popular with "The Da Vinci Code".)

So the knight that Indiana Jones met was Percival.

 

[StillStunned]

So the knight that Indiana Jones met was Percival.

That would make sense, seeing as Percival is essentially a god of death and rebirth.

Is three pages soon enough to derail a thread with strong personal feelings? I think perhaps we ought to move this somewhere else.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Some of these Lit problems are far from new. And Lush has also been having submission issues. This site is mainly surviving due to age, in my opinion. It's been around long enough to be the biggest—the Kleenex or Roller Blades of online erotica.

Me and others have said not to fully invest in Lit, that's why me and others are on other sites. Now it seems more precident than ever, because it's not iust Lit where readership, comments, votes are down. It's practically every site. I get more comments[and I barely get more than three on any story] here then anywhere, some sites, most of them I don't get any, not even the art bots for real. The two worst sites are Wattpad and AO3—both of which have their own additional caveats.

Some of this is why I don't write anything fairly long, it's a lot of work for very little return. According to those in r/AO3; too many readers have turned into consumers that just expect you to provide and ask for nothing, while they do nothing but ingest the work like they're owed and earned it. Kinda the way some of us feel about Laurel. I guess dine and dash is a good analogy. Why would I write the equivilant of a six course meal just to give it away? Of course I know I'm not a top writer either. I don't get talked about, or read.

 

[MrPixel]

There have been countless discussions on this site with everyone agreeing that the scores don't mean anything,

Sorry. I, for one, have never agreed with that. To wit:

But they are important to attract readership and thus matter to us by necessity.

Yes. High scores attract readers. Low scores leave the uninitiated (and the initiated, too) with the impression that a given story may not be worth the time.

@SimonDoom summarized Emily's dilemma well. She has been subjected to an onslaught of hate from site regulars, which I do suspect include a couple of "name" authors. She is outspoken, yes. She jumps from kink to kink, yes. But this is from a position of deep knowledge and positive on-topic experiences, and a talent for expressing that very well. Her willingness to share this both publicly and privately should be celebrated. Her detractors who incessantly vandalize her scores and therefore depress prospective readership should be shown the door or at least have their damage mitigated, but there appears to be no "official" motivation to do so, or, conversely, making policy changes to that affect likely has other costs. Only @Laurel and @Manu know the magic sauce there.

The outpouring of support and concern in this thread is heartening, and speaks well of the community. @EmilyMiller, you have many, many friends who think highly of you, your knowledge, your skills as an author, and a few of us have the honor of having a better idea of the big picture here. You do what you need to do for you, and we will always be here for you.

 

[DEFCOM5]

To reiterate, I’m not quitting AH. So if one objective of bombing my stories into oblivion was to silence me, try harder!

@EmilyMiller,
Music to my ears.
Losing you completely would have meant that the trolls have won.
Losing your stories is already a price that is too high to pay!

But for now, thank you for the kinds words from virtually everyone .

I hope that you will recognize that more people love you on this site than detest you.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Sorry. I, for one, have never agreed with that. To wit:



Yes. High scores attract readers. Low scores leave the uninitiated (and the initiated, too) with the impression that a given story may not be worth the time.

@SimonDoom summarized Emily's dilemma well. She has been subjected to an onslaught of hate from site regulars, which I do suspect include a couple of "name" authors. She is outspoken, yes. She jumps from kink to kink, yes. But this is from a position of deep knowledge and positive on-topic experiences, and a talent for expressing that very well. Her willingness to share this both publicly and privately should be celebrated. Her detractors who incessantly vandalize her scores and therefore depress prospective readership should be shown the door or at least have their damage mitigated, but there appears to be no "official" motivation to do so, or, conversely, making policy changes to that affect likely has other costs. Only @Laurel and @Manu know the magic sauce there.

The outpouring of support and concern in this thread is heartening, and speaks well of the community. @EmilyMiller, you have many, many friends who think highly of you, your knowledge, your skills as an author, and a few of us have the honor of having a better idea of the big picture here. You do what you need to do for you, and we will always be here for you.

We've gotten into it once, due to a missunderstanding, but I don't hate her, and I wasn't one of the few that ran her off those few times. I wasn't even present to whatever led to it. I don't see her as problematic as others either. If folks can put up with the you-know-who's, then they can deal with her.

 

[StillStunned]

If folks can put up with the you-know-who's, then they can deal with her.

I don't know who. This is the kind of statement that has me looking over my shoulder.

 

[Djmac1031]

which I do suspect include a couple of "name" authors

I dont suspect. I know. I won't name names but they know who they are.

 

[FreyaGersemi]

The culmination of this literary journey is my first novel, The Story of Nix.

Congratulations!! It is an amazing milestone for sure!!

The trolls have totally free rein.

Yes. About a year ago, I did some research, undercover interviewing, and quasi-scientific testing and learned a LOT about how I think this site works and who the trolls are. At any rate, you need to do what you think is best for you!

I’m not going to stop writing

And neither have I. Readers can navigate an Internet search engine to find my work. Some of it is for sale, much of it is still free, all of it is still fun!!!

Thank you to those who have enjoyed my work and said so.

Good luck with whatever future you create for yourself!!!

 

[M_K_Babalon]

I don't know who. This is the kind of statement that has me looking over my shoulder.

Like PSG, FIH, Lovecraft, the ones people go at it with for strong opinions.

 

[StillStunned]

Like PSG, FIH, Lovecraft, the ones people go at it with for strong opinions.

I'm glad that all my opinions are as negotiable as my affections!

 

[onehitwanda]

So the knight that Indiana Jones met was Percival.

Percival wasn't a Templar, though.

 

[YmaOHyd]

There have been countless discussions on this site with everyone agreeing that the scores don't mean anything, don't accurately reflect the quality of a story etc. So why should the site waste time and money trying to "fix" something that the AH contingent says doesn't matter anyway?

Other people have hit it, but I'm going to add my redundant two cents here.

Scores aren't an objective measure of quality, and they're not the only measure of quality. For an author trying to evaluate their work, they're not perfect. But they do matter, once you dig down a little. Some categories have obvious score effects (LW is the most obvious), so you can't necessarily compare apples to other types of apples. But generally speaking, I'd say an average 2.1 story is worse than an average 4.3. So the rating system works, basically, at scale, but breaks down at the level of an in individual story, and there are lots of reasons for that.

Where ratings matter a lot is readers. Readers generally accept that ratings equal quality. In many categories, you're not getting readers without the 4.5 H Of Quality. And if the things that validate you as an author are comments and readers, you don't get either without the ratings. It's easy to say that external validation doesn't matter, if you want those things you're in the wrong field, but I think that's wrong; everyone likes being appreciated and hearing that their work matters to someone. I can put up with a lot of low readership and a rating that isn't exactly where I want it to be for a comment from a guy in his 80s saying my story reminds him of his wife. The way to get feedback on your work is to get comments, the way to get comments is by having readers, and unless you have an existing followership to click on your work the way to get readers is by getting strong ratings while your story is in New.

 

[Voyeurkenneth]

Emily, shame to see you go from the story-side (for now, at least!). Your post got me to start thinking about contingency plans, in case things do go south. And I don't mean only considering other sites, but also saving comments received, stats, kind PMs, and maybe even stories from favorite authors.