Arousal vs desire... vs love.

[jehoram]

But then yesterday I heard a sobering interview with someone (name escapes me) who had written a book about the impact of pornography on pre-adolescent and adolescent boys. (Maybe it was just part of a book). She said 14 year old boys have seen more pornography than soldiers during all of WWII. And the sobering part is that is diminishing their interest in (or ability to) realting to girls in real life.

Three things:

1. I was talking about this to a friend of mine who is a nudist, when I pointed out that I don't get as aroused by pictures of nude women the way I used to when I was younger. He said that it's common in nudism, that the more you see of naked women, the less aroused you are. That doesn't mean that they're all puritans, but that the social stimulus isn't constantly there. He pointed out that two hundred years ago, the sight of a woman's bare calf or shoulder would be enough to arouse a guy. Now we see it all the time, and while a guy can appreciate the sight of a shapely calf, it wouldn't be enough to give him a boner.

2. As for the boys' ability to relate to girls, it occurs to me that if they've seen a lot of porn, they realize that the actors don't look or behave like them. They're more muscular, their dicks are huge, and they have no trouble getting a girl to spread her legs. So the boys are given the impression that that's what a woman wants, and they're afraid that women standards to him, and that he will fail.

And women have the same problem in that they're always being compared to the ideals of feminine beauty that they see in movies or advertisements. They learn about how to use makeup and how to wear tight clothing and even how to throw up, in hopes of making themselves conform to those unreal standards of beauty. IMO, the best way to raise teenagers is to tell them that they're fine just the way they are.

3. And if the boys aren't as eager to relate to girls in a sexual way, is that really a Bad Thing? Maybe it can help them to see girls as human beings rather than as objects of lust, which is the thing that poisons a lot of relationships right off the bat. A kid whose only reaction to a girl's presence is to try to hit on her is not going to get her respect these days. But if she doesn't have to say "Hey, my eyes are up here" all the time, she might think better of the guy.

 

[Noor]

It depends upon the age of the man and his confidence in himself. Lack of confidence can certainly cause a man to fear rejection because of the comments by some women, especially on social media, about what they consider to be a man they'd consider going out with.

It also depends upon how men have been taught to view women.

I've always found it interesting that while the covers on almost all romance novels show a muscular, good looking guy with a woman in his arms. He's definitely in control of the situation and the woman appears to be loving it. The contrast is the thinking of some women over the past decade or so that men of this type exhibit "toxic masculinity" and should be criticized and shunned. This puts young guys in difficult position. Do they follow their instincts to talk to a woman in hopes of beginning a relationship, or do they keep quiet so they're not criticized.

A second problem, particularly with men in the workplace, is the constant training by employers that nearly anything a man says to a woman can offend her to the point of filing a complaint of sexual harassment. I worked with a man who commented to a woman at work that she looked like "the lady in red" from the movie. He was telling her he thought she was beautiful. She "heard" him telling her she looked like a whore. He ended up having to apologize to her in order to keep his job.

I'm not defending the need to tone down some hyper-masculine men or to say that a man should be able to say anything to a woman and she's supposed to grin and bear it, but these two things can generate a reluctance of men to talk to women.

I would add, that by touching him, you're telling him it's OK to talk to you.

It’s always best not to make personal remarks based on appearance.

 

[AG31]

I was talking about this to a friend of mine who is a nudist, when I pointed out that I don't get as aroused by pictures of nude women the way I used to when I was younger.

Are you just as aroused by other things/situations as you ever were? What are they? Do you happen to know what gets him aroused, once female nudity has lost it's impact?

 

[AG31]

For those of you who doubt that what the author describes is really happening, see this quote from a different thread.

And I realized that we have an entire generation of younger men that have absolutely no clue how to talk to a woman.

 

[TheRedChamber]

Purely hypothetically...

How sure are we that young women know how to talk to young men?

 

[AG31]

Purely hypothetically...

How sure are we that young women know how to talk to young men?

Have you ever heard anyone complain about it?

 

[Britva415]

Purely hypothetically...

How sure are we that young women know how to talk to young men?

This could be a whole thread of its own.

Have you ever heard anyone complain about it?

God, of course.

Maybe not so much about "knowing how," in terms of like what to say or how to say it, but, there are absolutely complaints that young women simply won't talk to young men, expect men to make all the effort in conversation, expect men to make all of the approaches instead of daring to approach, themselves, that young women instead will play games and give shit-tests once approached, they will unfairly and dishonestly expose other people on social media—

There's so much more. I mean, I'd categorize all of this as not knowing how to talk to people. As in, they don't know why these things are problematic. And then they'll complain that they aren't getting approached or finding good guys.

 

[hazzel9]

The question of how to distinguish arousal and desire came to me a few days ago. One of those trivial analyses pretty much guaranteed to get some sort of response from the great conversationalists in AH.

But then yesterday I heard a sobering interview with someone (name escapes me) who had written a book about the impact of pornography on pre-adolescent and adolescent boys. (Maybe it was just part of a book). She said 14 year old boys have seen more pornography than soldiers during all of WWII. And the sobering part is that is diminishing their interest in (or ability to) realting to girls in real life.

And then there's love.

My own erotica thing (as contrasted with my real life erotic thing) is pretty devoid of relationships, or even desire. It consists of men getting physically aroused by strangers. So I understand arousal without desire. But is it common? Is it invading real life with enough force to change the way society is structured? Are we heading to a world where men masturbate to pornography and women are paid to get pregnant?

I keep thinking that society will cycle around and people will start yearning for and re-discovering face to face, flesh to flesh relationships.

Here is a link to a movie about this issue. If you resonate with it, pass it on to your friends.

Interesting takes! Unrestricted access to pornography is a massive issue for young boys, not only for their personal lives but also for their mental health. The excessive erotic stimulation from watching porn not only desensitizes them to the intimacy of the world but also distorts the way they perceive relationships, leading more men to prefer solitude to seeking or pursuing healthy relationships.
While desire, love, and arousal are discrete, they are inherently interdependent. But with constant access to artificial stimulation, the balance among them becomes disturbed. Desire becomes reduced to consumption, love becomes overshadowed by immediate gratification, and arousal becomes disconnected from emotional intimacy. This, in the process, may be contributing to a bigger social phenomenon where relationships are not needed or are cumbersome, with digital escapism substituting for true intimacy. Will the exploration of real-world intimacy and love revive? I believe it's very possible.

 

[Noor]

This could be a whole thread of its own.


God, of course.

Maybe not so much about "knowing how," in terms of like what to say or how to say it, but, there are absolutely complaints that young women simply won't talk to young men, expect men to make all the effort in conversation, expect men to make all of the approaches instead of daring to approach, themselves, that young women instead will play games and give shit-tests once approached, they will unfairly and dishonestly expose other people on social media—

There's so much more. I mean, I'd categorize all of this as not knowing how to talk to people. As in, they don't know why these things are problematic. And then they'll complain that they aren't getting approached or finding good guys.

Why would a younger woman do that?
I think younger women have better options as time goes on and men aren’t all that when they could be having fun, getting educated and chatting with people who can talk with them. Also sex toys can be more reliable.
I haven’t heard any young woman complaining about not getting approached, only compliant I hear is about incel men and they wish they would stop bothering them.

 

[Forrest69]

Are men fearful of talking to a woman today for fear of rejection? Face to face must begin somewhere. Do they fear my angry kitten snarl? I can’t get them to loosen up unless I begin the conversation and touch them on the arm or offer a one-armed hug.

Please approach me anytime, anywhere! I guarantee I’ll make the first move - to infinity and beyond!

 

[Forrest69]

The question of how to distinguish arousal and desire came to me a few days ago. One of those trivial analyses pretty much guaranteed to get some sort of response from the great conversationalists in AH.

But then yesterday I heard a sobering interview with someone (name escapes me) who had written a book about the impact of pornography on pre-adolescent and adolescent boys. (Maybe it was just part of a book). She said 14 year old boys have seen more pornography than soldiers during all of WWII. And the sobering part is that is diminishing their interest in (or ability to) realting to girls in real life.

And then there's love.

My own erotica thing (as contrasted with my real life erotic thing) is pretty devoid of relationships, or even desire. It consists of men getting physically aroused by strangers. So I understand arousal without desire. But is it common? Is it invading real life with enough force to change the way society is structured? Are we heading to a world where men masturbate to pornography and women are paid to get pregnant?

I keep thinking that society will cycle around and people will start yearning for and re-discovering face to face, flesh to flesh relationships.

Here is a link to a movie about this issue. If you resonate with it, pass it on to your friends.

I dare say that an accurate, all inclusive, mutually agreed upon definition of love will never exist.
The ancient Greeks identified three types of love. That’s about as close as I would agree with.

I think we live a lifetime trying to answer and find satisfaction in answering ’What is love?’ BRAVO to everyone who feels satisfied with gaining happiness in their finding
“ true love that lasts a lifetime with one chosen partner “!

 

[Forrest69]

Three things:

1. I was talking about this to a friend of mine who is a nudist, when I pointed out that I don't get as aroused by pictures of nude women the way I used to when I was younger. He said that it's common in nudism, that the more you see of naked women, the less aroused you are. That doesn't mean that they're all puritans, but that the social stimulus isn't constantly there. He pointed out that two hundred years ago, the sight of a woman's bare calf or shoulder would be enough to arouse a guy. Now we see it all the time, and while a guy can appreciate the sight of a shapely calf, it wouldn't be enough to give him a boner.

2. As for the boys' ability to relate to girls, it occurs to me that if they've seen a lot of porn, they realize that the actors don't look or behave like them. They're more muscular, their dicks are huge, and they have no trouble getting a girl to spread her legs. So the boys are given the impression that that's what a woman wants, and they're afraid that women standards to him, and that he will fail.

And women have the same problem in that they're always being compared to the ideals of feminine beauty that they see in movies or advertisements. They learn about how to use makeup and how to wear tight clothing and even how to throw up, in hopes of making themselves conform to those unreal standards of beauty. IMO, the best way to raise teenagers is to tell them that they're fine just the way they are.

3. And if the boys aren't as eager to relate to girls in a sexual way, is that really a Bad Thing? Maybe it can help them to see girls as human beings rather than as objects of lust, which is the thing that poisons a lot of relationships right off the bat. A kid whose only reaction to a girl's presence is to try to hit on her is not going to get her respect these days. But if she doesn't have to say "Hey, my eyes are up here" all the time, she might think better of the guy.

Great analysis and comments!

 

[TheRedChamber]

Have you ever heard anyone complain about it?

The issue is that there are a lot of articles and forum discussions that go something like this...

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Venus is a lovely place, with balmy 450 degree temperatures and days which last 2800 hours - plenty of time for both a lie in and to get a full days work in. Mars on the other hand is a freezing -40 degrees, frequent dust storms and two unsightly moons cluttering up the sky. It's not just unpleasant, it's toxic! Clearly Venus is an ideal place to live and Martian men should learn adapt to the correct way of life. It's 2025 after all!

A classic example of this is this article about why men suck at texting. I could go on at length about the logical fallacies in it, but the basic response to it, as a man, is "we don't text because texting is a crap and non-fun way of communicating with anyone for any message more complicated than 'Fancy a pint?'"

I'm no longer a young person and haven't got enough contact in my life with young people of dating age to have any opinion, even an anecdotal one, but I am skeptical of 'Men and women have shared problem. Men need to change' headlines in principle.

Why would a younger woman do that?
I think younger women have better options as time goes on and men aren’t all that when they could be having fun, getting educated and chatting with people who can talk with them. Also sex toys can be more reliable.

We've come full circle. The difference is that 'men spending time playing video games and watching porn instead of going out dating' is toxic whereas 'women spending time on inane gossip and playing with their vibrators instead of going out dating' is empowering (lets assume both are getting an education for the sake of argument).

 

[Noor]

The issue is that there are a lot of articles and forum discussions that go something like this...

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus. Venus is a lovely place, with balmy 450 degree temperatures and days which last 2800 hours - plenty of time for both a lie in and to get a full days work in. Mars on the other hand is a freezing -40 degrees, frequent dust storms and two unsightly moons cluttering up the sky. It's not just unpleasant, it's toxic! Clearly Venus is an ideal place to live and Martian men should learn adapt to the correct way of life. It's 2025 after all!

A classic example of this is this article about why men suck at texting. I could go on at length about the logical fallacies in it, but the basic response to it, as a man, is "we don't text because texting is a crap and non-fun way of communicating with anyone for any message more complicated than 'Fancy a pint?'"

I'm no longer a young person and haven't got enough contact in my life with young people of dating age to have any opinion, even an anecdotal one, but I am skeptical of 'Men and women have shared problem. Men need to change' headlines in principle.


We've come full circle. The difference is that 'men spending time playing video games and watching porn instead of going out dating' is toxic whereas 'women spending time on inane gossip and playing with their vibrators' is empowering (lets assume both are getting an education for the sake of argument).

Who gossips? We are starting companies and non profits!

 

[Noor]

I’m a first move girl anyway and always have been. Why wait for someone interesting to stumble over?
Go for the interesting ones!

 

[Noor]

I’m a first move girl anyway and always have been. Why wait for someone interesting to stumble over?
Go for the interesting ones!

So are most of my female friends of all ages. Life is too short!

 

[TheRedChamber]

Who gossips? We are starting companies and non profits!

Sorry, obviously every single woman in the world is a sparkling conversationalist whose topics flit between 19th century romantic poetry, the works of Derrida and Foucault and the political situation in sub-Saharan Africa and who are currently setting up an innovative environmentally friendly, carbon neutral non-profit organization.

Whereas all men are fused bodily into their gaming chair.

 

[Noor]

Sorry, obviously every single woman in the world is a sparkling conversationalist whose topics flit between 19th century romantic poetry, the works of Derrida and Foucault and the political situation in sub-Saharan Africa and who are currently setting up an innovative environmentally friendly, carbon neutral non-profit organization.

Whereas all men are fused bodily into their gaming chair.

You have some strange ideas of what interests women. I don’t know anyone who does the above although some of us are aware of the political situation in Ethiopia and Sudan is something sone of us are aware and have been for decades.
Seriously, women are living their lives having fun and being productive.

 

[TheRedChamber]

You have some strange ideas of what interests women. I don’t know anyone who does the above although some of us are aware of the political situation in Ethiopia and Sudan is something sone of us are aware and have been for decades.

I was, as I think you know, gently mocking the idea that female conversation was always profound and never inane.

Seriously, women are living their lives having fun and being productive.

Might not a couple (just a couple) be a tad miserable on a cold and rainy Thursday and having an off-day where not a lot gets done?

 

[AG31]

Interesting takes! Unrestricted access to pornography is a massive issue for young boys, not only for their personal lives but also for their mental health. The excessive erotic stimulation from watching porn not only desensitizes them to the intimacy of the world but also distorts the way they perceive relationships, leading more men to prefer solitude to seeking or pursuing healthy relationships.
While desire, love, and arousal are discrete, they are inherently interdependent. But with constant access to artificial stimulation, the balance among them becomes disturbed. Desire becomes reduced to consumption, love becomes overshadowed by immediate gratification, and arousal becomes disconnected from emotional intimacy. This, in the process, may be contributing to a bigger social phenomenon where relationships are not needed or are cumbersome, with digital escapism substituting for true intimacy. Will the exploration of real-world intimacy and love revive? I believe it's very possible.

Was your response AI generated?

 

[jehoram]

Are you just as aroused by other things/situations as you ever were? What are they? Do you happen to know what gets him aroused, once female nudity has lost it's impact?

Let me ask him and get back to you on that. As for me, I'm still aroused if a woman comes on to me (which doesn't happen very often these days). A smile, a touch, a suggestion that we take it a little farther... those all work for me.