As a Parent, Will You Uphold the Double Standard?

[Whispersecret]

We all know there's a double standard regarding males and females regarding sex. It may not be fair, but it exists, and quite possibly may always exist.

I have two sons. I expect that around fourteen or so, they'll become obsessed with sex, and I understand that. I'm going to do my best to make sure that they grow up to be respectful to girls/women and responsible in their sexual undertakings.

I probably won't give them the speech about "your first time should be with someone special," because I'm not sure it matters that much to guys. As far as I can tell (and I may be totally over-generalizing), a guy's first time is special just by virtue of the fact that they're finally getting it.

As far as at what age said first time should occur, I'm not sure. Frankly, I haven't gotten that far in my thinking yet. (They're both under the age of eight right now.)

I don't have any daughters, but if I did, I can't help but think that I'd treat them differently. I would still teach them responsibility, but I would focus more on teaching them to respect themselves--enough to not tie up their self-worth in their willingness and/or ability to please a guy in the sack. I would definitely give them the "first time=special person" speech, because I myself regret not having had that.

So, I suppose I support a double-standard as a parent, even if, intellectually, I know it isn't fair. What are your thoughts?

 

[CreamyLady]

I only have one daughter, and I gave her the "special person" pep talk. I, too, regret not having waited, but the final choice is hers. So far, she regards men as a mild distraction. She is smarter than her mother.

However, I think I'd probably say the same thing to a son. I don't like to think that I'd let a son think that it was okay to regard a woman as a vessel and nothing more. I would emphasize the respect due to a partner. How many of us have felt empty after giving ourselves to a guy who is thinking only of himself? Would it have changed things if his parents told him that there were two people involved, and that it is a good thing to not share your body with just anyone, but make sex a true act of love and respect?

 

[DarlingBri]

Totally...

I totally see that double standard: "Go get it, boy!" versus "Not my daughter!"

I lost my virginity at 15, with the right person, someone I was passionately in love with. I don't regret it and I don't wish I had waited.

I do regret many of the sexual choices I made after that person when I got to college, so I think regret is tied to the event, not the age.

 

[Blackbich]

Luckily, I don't have children and don't have to worry about this but I was raised with the double standard. To this day it still pisses me off that my father was that chauvinistic. His reasoning - A boy can't bring a baby home. Yes he can get a girl pregnant but the girl's parents are the ones that have to deal with the aftermath. I hope that if I am ever blessed with children that I will treat them both the same where this is concerned and give them both the 'someone special' and 'not until you feel you're truly ready' speeches.

 

[Cheri]

WS, do you really think it's a double standard? I guess I consider it realizing that children are different and have different needs. I know I'll treat two boys differently when they start dating. My eldest has been a player since he was 18 months old. Any waitress, check-out girl or any other young cute female we encountered was privy to his charm. Even now that he's developed a bit of tact and knows what embarrassment is, he's still the charmer he always was.
My youngest is a different story. He is, and I suppose always will be, the kind of guy to wear his heart on his sleeve. He's the one crushed by a harsh glance from me. He's also the one who will have his heart broken by girls. Because of this, I know I'm going to treat him differently than his brother. I will be worried about his vulnerability, his sweetness and his gentleness to be taken away by the thoughtless actions of a girl.

Isn't that how you'll be with your children, mindful of their individuality and needs?

 

[teresafannin]

I gave my son the same talk I gave his friends, both male & female. It still amazes me how many of them came to me, rather than their parents. I was raised with that double standard & vowed I would not do that to my children. My son was a charmer, too. He had girls calling by the 2nd grade. He never seriously dated, but went to all the dances & parties. His DJ business & school were his priorities & he wanted his first time to be special,corny but true. He was the one to tell his friends that they were crazy to start having sex so young,but if they were having sex to use birth control. I think because of the struggles I had as a single parent, he wanted to make sure that he could provide for a family when the time was right. He also knew that he would be held accountable should the hormones run amok & a baby was the result. I have never held the belief that a girl should bear the responsibity for a baby, it took 2 to make it & they both should be held accountable.

 

[Whispersecret]

"I don't like to think that I'd let a son think that it was okay to regard a woman as a vessel and nothing more."

Oh, that's not what I was implying at all, and I'm completely horrified that you'd think I was advocating that.

Wait a moment. Okay, I get it. It took me a little bit of walking around the idea thinking like a guy in order to understand.

If the guy doesn't approach it with the someone special attitude, but the girl DOES, then she ends up feeling empty. DUH. Gosh, how deep does that double standard RUN inside my head??? What a revelation.

Okay. The speech is hereby officially scheduled for the little WS boys. Still, in this day and age, casual sex without emotional attachments is almost a given. I suppose they'll figure that out for themselves?

 

[Nicole]

I have no clue what I'm going to do yet, but as the mother of a five year old that informed me just yesterday that he got married at Kindy to a gorgeous lil girl, then I think I'll be getting to this "Talk" sooner than I had hoped.

I agree though that Having a son, you tend to not go with the "your first time should be with someone special," talk, as like you said yourself WS, it isn't that they are having sex "with that someone special" but that "Hey mate, I'm gettin me some over here".

Sorry but it seems that way to us women anyway.

I just hope my son doesn't come home next week and tell me that his "wife" is pregnant LOL.

 

[Whispersecret]

WS, do you really think it's a double standard? I guess I consider it realizing that children are different and have different needs. Isn't that how you'll be with your children, mindful of their individuality and needs?

Well, to be honest, I was thinking more along gender lines with this question. But in answer to YOUR question, I certainly hope so. My sons are both very different. As far as how they are with the ladies, that has yet to be seen. They're complete opposites in so many ways, I'm sure they'll turn out to be different in that area as well. I only pray that I'm wise and capable enough to guide them well in the sexual arena. (Not personally, of course. Ahem.)

 

[DarlingBri]

Awww....

I got married in kindy! And I still have my Superman ring, too.

When I taught preschool, lots of little kids got married to each other. I think they're just figuring out male/female relations, after figuring out who is a boy and who is a girl.

It's so interesting to watch them, isn't it?

 

[Whispersecret]

I have never held the belief that a girl should bear the responsibity for a baby, it took 2 to make it & they both should be held accountable.

Amen, TF. Anyone who says otherwise is an idiot. In the days before the Pill, it was ultimately the male's fault. He was the one who had to wear the condom. Now, the street runs both ways. While I love the fact that the pill liberated women in many ways, it also freed men of a lot of their theretofore responsibility. After the advent of oral contraceptives, they could blame it on the woman.

But that's a whole other can of worms.

Nikki, don't worry about it. My kids both have "girlfriends." It's completely normal. I love to watch kids play house. You learn tons about them that way, eh, Bri?

 

[DarlingBri]

WS...

Yes, you do

Unfortunately, I discovered that I wasn't a good teacher at all. I didn't have patience and I wasn't that interested in setting out snacks. I'm terrified of being a mother because I can't imagine anything worse than being bored at this really important job

I did discover that I was very interested in "children and gender", so I went back to theory and research. More my cup of tea. And I didn't have to pour apple juice or live on graham crackers.

 

[Nicole]

Nikki, don't worry about it. My kids both have "girlfriends." It's completely normal. I love to watch kids play house. You learn tons about them that way, eh, Bri?

Oh I'm sure you do, and I adore my "Daughter in law" she is so precious, and really well mannered.

I love that he felt that he could tell me too, even down to the little kiss they had, I thought it was so damn adorable. God I love being a Mum, there is no job in the world like it.

But I will tell you WS, that I do worry about so many "Talks" that I know one day will happen, and I just hope that my son trust's me enough to come to me and not feel the need to go to someone else.

This has been a Fantastic insight to me how we all "Mother", thanks for starting this thread WS, I love being able to get different perspective's on how we raise our children.

 

[Whispersecret]

Off topic, preschool requires a whole different set of skills than teaching kids of other ages. I've taught K-5, and I know for a fact I couldn't handle preschool. Then again, I don't think I'd do well with adolescents either.

Oh, well, nevermind. We were talking about double standards! Stop making me wax nostalgic about teaching! Heh heh.

 

[Laurel]

The world treats men and women differently, so I'd guess if I decided to pop out puppies of my own, I'd probably handle sex differently with a boy than I would a girl. Not as differently as my parents did, but definitely differently. I would try to explain to my boy that women are not holes, but live beings with feelings. I would try to have a close relationship with him, because it's been my experience that men who are good friends with their female relatives tend to view women as people & friends, not just as potential lays or wives. Many men who haven't enjoyed a closeness with a female relative (in my experience, mind you) don't tend to have women as true friends - there's the women they're screwing, the women they're trying to screw, and the women they don't wish to screw. All of their 'buddies' are guys.

With my girl, I would explain to her that sex is for HER to enjoy. I would explain that she will be put under tremendous pressure to have sex, and that she should never succumb to the pressure if it doesn't 'feel right'.

One thing I wouldn't do is teach her that sex is a commodity to be 'withheld' and 'given'. I would explain to her that as a woman, she has a right to enjoy the sex act as much - if not more - than a man. No one ever explained that to me when I was young, so I spent a lot of time trying to please men instead of trying to please myself. I would encourage her to be assertive in sex - to show HIM how to please HER. I would try to teach her that sex does not equal love.

So I guess I would treat boys & girls differently. I would prepare my girl to withstand the pressure, and I'd try to teach my boy to not unfairly pressure girls. Is that sexist, or is that realistic? I have no idea.

 

[Weevil]

Maybe it's for the best

I think you have to approach the subject differently with your sons than with your daughters, though. Maybe not in the traditional paradigm of how men and women should view sex but the simple fact is that if you tell a boy he should save it he'll probably think you're nuts and the trouble with telling a girl to be as promiscuous as we tell our boys to be is that often a girl who is even perceived as being easy is tagged with the cruelest of terms, "Slut". If you want to help your children through a very confusing time in their lives it is best that you come up with an attitude specifically suited to what you think your childs thoughts and outlooks should be. Not a blanket approach for everyone, nor one for boys and one for girls.

 

[DarlingBri]

Off topic, preschool requires a whole different set of skills than teaching kids of other ages. I've taught K-5, and I know for a fact I couldn't handle preschool. Then again, I don't think I'd do well with adolescents either.

Oh, well, nevermind. We were talking about double standards! Stop making me wax nostalgic about teaching! Heh heh.

It's not that off topic I worked with some "more experienced" (read older) teachers as part of a study and I had to actually give them gender awareness training. They were dividing four year olds up by gender and addressing them by gender as well:

"We're going to split into two groups now; boys on one side, girls on the other."

"Good boy, Alex! Good girl, Celia!"

The concepts of, for example, a Blue Group and a Red Group; the phrase "Well done!" or "Good job!" and the idea of a co-ed bathroom for small children were totally new to them.

Having moved to London and living across the street from an infant's school, the idea of sending boys to school in short pants and girls in dresses drives me absolutely WILD with frustration.

The standards we set and our children's concept of gender and thus of sexuality begin in the cradle.

 

[DarlingBri]

OK, sorry....

That was really off topic <g>

I can't help it... it's one of the issues I feel most passionately about.

Sorry... skip over my post, carry on...!

 

[KillerMuffin]

Part of the reason for the double standard is that boys are different from girls. Boys can diddle anything and everything and all they have to do is say, "prove it's mine." Girls, quite obviously, get stuck with the "fruit" of the "labor." They can't deny paternity. They have to be more careful because they have to suffer the consequences and, unless the girl and her parents will go after him, the boy does not. So yes, had I a girl I would be far more interested in keeping her from having sex. Because the consequences of it will surely ruin her life.

Of course, in the Muffin household, the consequences can't be gotten away from. If the little Stud gets his happy drawers down and the girl gets pregnant, his life is going down the tubes right along with hers. I firmly believe that the woman doesn't get pregnant, the couple does. I am going to teach him that sex can be cheap or it can be something excitingly worthwhile. You can have the cheap walmart popsicles all the time, or save up your money and get the good ice cream, it's sweeter, tastier, and more satisfying. Of course, one of the things we are doing now for prevention is to teach him that instant gratification screws you over. He does not have the "I gotta have it nows!!!!" I hope it helps.

 

[cymbidia]

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[Edited by cymbidia on 03-31-2001 at 01:10 AM]

 

[teresafannin]

I think you will all do just fine when the time comes to have the difficult talks with your kids. Just the fact that you are concerned now & already thinking about it shows that you are good parents. For me, it wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be. Justin & I were always very close & when we hit the difficult teen years, that closeness helped us through some difficult times. He had his rebellious times, but we always worked it out. I salute all of you, being a parent is the toughest job out there, but the rewards are so worth it.

I taught preschool & then volunteered all through Justin's school years. I don't have the patience to work with a whole class, but loved being a tutor & mentoring small groups of kids. Working with other people's kids is way different than your own kids, so don't sell yourself short in that department. I think most of the parents here will agree that there are very few dull moments in the life of a toddler & one of my favorite things to tease Justin about is that teenagers aren't real different from toddlers, they are just taller & eat more.

 

[coralrose]

A friend's kindergartner came home from school the other day and asked what a blowjob was. Oh God, I'm not ready for this!

I have two boys, 5 and 2, and have always been extremely thankful that I didn't have any girls since I am hardly a good role model for women. After 28 years, I'm finally parenting myself in that regard. I'd hate to be responsible for messing up another female.

So, based on my experience, I really emphasize the importance of empathy with my sons. They're young yet, so don't get it half the time, but I'm hoping some of this sinks in before their hormones start raging.

BTW, I read in Time magazine a few years back about the emotional puberty of children. The researchers said that girls have their major outburst at 11-16 (as we all remember), but they've recently discovered that boys actually have theirs from ages 4/5-8/9. Any parents notice that among their boys?

 

[Earthmuffin]

No double standard just up-front honesty....

I have a kid sister who is nearly a decade younger than me, a couple of cousins who couldn't talk to their folks and way more information crammed in my head than I deserve.

I've already given the talk. I would say the same thing to a male as I have the females. You only do something for the first time ONCE. You're not an elephant but bad memories last the longest.

When the munchykins start down the rocky path of sexuality and relationships I will have hopefully already given them the tools they need emotionally to know their own self-worth. I believe that to truly benefit our children we need to rear them to have respect for themselves so they can respect others. I try to eradicate the old double standard as I go.

 

[Countess DeWinter]

Just to add my $.02...I've got two of each and the issues and problems we have to address are different not times two but times four. As as been said above, all kids are different. But there are some gender differences that I'd be an irresponsible parent if I didn't address. I want my kids to experience the beauty of sex that I didn't until I met my current husband.
I'm of the opinion that just because I did something does NOT mean that I can't expect any different behavior from my kids. Sure, I lost my virginity when I was 16. It was a terrible experience. I hope that my kids can have the benefit of my life and experience so as not to make the same mistakes I did.

 

[dave-73]

I have two daughters and man I dont know how I will cope

I have this view that is not far wrong about teenage boys..
but life is life and who the fuck am I to mess with it