Bill Clinton, Barney Franks, Chris Dodd = Housing Collapse...

[eyer]

Every Democrat and Republican and politician and banker should do time...

 

[RobDownSouth]

That's true, and that's what led to a multiplier when the individual mortgages contained in the mortgage backed securities began to default. The people holding the "insurance" (the Credit Default Swaps) went to the "insurer" (Lehman Brothers) and asked to be paid. There was no money to pay the CDS because the CDS's were not regulated as an insurance product that would have been required to maintain reserves.

Those who issued the CDSs should be in jail.

Damn, in my wildest dreams I never thought I'd witness an intelligent discussion regarding the pros and cons of Credit Default Swaps on Literotica.

Most of the time it's 'but..but...Fannie and Freddie!" "but...but....the CRA in 1977!" and the usual Republican talking point.

And yes, Vettebigot and AJ, we know Barney Frank is gay....

 

[Wok]

Damn, in my wildest dreams I never thought I'd witness an intelligent discussion regarding the pros and cons of Credit Default Swaps on Literotica.

Most of the time it's 'but..but...Fannie and Freddie!" "but...but....the CRA in 1977!" and the usual Republican talking point.

And yes, Vettebigot and AJ, we know Barney Frank is gay....

Left handed and Jewish to boot. Man, the guy cannot catch a break.

 

[Ishmael]

Ding ding ding....We have a winner. Well, half a winner anyway. The CRA was part of the start. So I guess in a fashion you can blame it on Carter. But Regan/Clinton/ Bush(s) helped in there own fashion. Mostly by not doing anything about the CRA.

This in itself had no real teeth. But it did lead to Wall Street (specifically, Salomon Brothers), in to creating and getting rich on some of the most hideous (and brilliant), investment vehicles ever.

You can put any figure of merit on it you want. The causes are many and interlocking and all traceable back to specific governmental policies and legislation. The more they tinker, the worse it gets.

Ishmael

 

[Sean]

You can put any figure of merit on it you want. The causes are many and interlocking and all traceable back to specific governmental policies and legislation. The more they tinker, the worse it gets.

Ishmael

Yep, loads of governmental legislation led to the derivatives fuck up. Unless you mean the repeal of Glass-Steagall?

 

[Ishmael]

Every one has an opinion, just like belly-buttons.

"Joe Baloney died today after a long bout with colon cancer."

Oped #1. "He didn't eat enough fiber."

Oped #2. "He smoked too much."

Oped #3. "He drank too much."

Oped #4. "I told him to take more vitamin E."

and on, and on, and on.

Of course when Joe was healthy, seemingly, nobody said shit and anyone that did was branded as 'negative', you see, Joe was popular.

And so it goes with politics and the economy. When the good times roll ain't no one going to bad mouth the situation, and those that do are belittled. Of course once the shit hits the fan the naysayers are looked upon as prophets.

So, you can stick to your Glass-Steagle to the end of your days. I suppose that Vatican whatever is going to stick to the Soloman Bros. to the end of his as well. And you are both right in that both were enablers. Me? I'll stick with the CRA as the slow-burning fuse that initiated the entire meltdown. Everything that followed can be traced back to that initiator.

Ishmael

 

[amicus]

As indicated by the complexity in the Posts thus far, there are more factors involved, some no one wants to acknowledge.

Real Estate and Mortgage company investment firms used the relaxed mortgage/banking standards to invest in mulitple properties.

Residential and commercial real estate can be an excellent investment: I bought a three bedroom ranch on a quarter acre in the 70's, rented it out and sold it 18 months later for a 15k profit. I did essentially the same thing with two taverns, with even larger profit margins plus a percentage of income over time.

Those more knowledgeable than I can cite the local laws that mandated Union labor for construction of new buildings, but that effectively increased the basic cost of the building by thirty percent. There were also pressures on land prices and political coercion on expansion as the environmentalists litigated every new building site that had any environmental impact.

It wasn't the scarcity of housing that increased the prices every year, but the combination of many things including the above.

Owning a home should be within the reach of most people; the market will provide, but building codes, Unions, and the environmental drive to limit expansion has priced owning a home out of the reach of most.

I regret sounding so negative, but until government gets out of the housing business and allows the market to function, there will be no solution to the problem and only the upper middle class will be able to afford to own.

Amicus

 

[Sean]

Every one has an opinion, just like belly-buttons.

"Joe Baloney died today after a long bout with colon cancer."

Oped #1. "He didn't eat enough fiber."

Oped #2. "He smoked too much."

Oped #3. "He drank too much."

Oped #4. "I told him to take more vitamin E."

and on, and on, and on.

Of course when Joe was healthy, seemingly, nobody said shit and anyone that did was branded as 'negative', you see, Joe was popular.

And so it goes with politics and the economy. When the good times roll ain't no one going to bad mouth the situation, and those that do are belittled. Of course once the shit hits the fan the naysayers are looked upon as prophets.

So, you can stick to your Glass-Steagle to the end of your days. I suppose that Vatican whatever is going to stick to the Soloman Bros. to the end of his as well. And you are both right in that both were enablers. Me? I'll stick with the CRA as the slow-burning fuse that initiated the entire meltdown. Everything that followed can be traced back to that initiator.

Ishmael

Actually, everything that followed can be linked back to the fact that the stock market is a castle in the air. It's built on rumour and whispers. But if that ever becomes common knowledge, then your whole bullshit system comes crashing down.

 

[Sean]

As indicated by the complexity in the Posts thus far, there are more factors involved, some no one wants to acknowledge.

Real Estate and Mortgage company investment firms used the relaxed mortgage/banking standards to invest in mulitple properties.

Residential and commercial real estate can be an excellent investment: I bought a three bedroom ranch on a quarter acre in the 70's, rented it out and sold it 18 months later for a 15k profit. I did essentially the same thing with two taverns, with even larger profit margins plus a percentage of income over time.

Those more knowledgeable than I can cite the local laws that mandated Union labor for construction of new buildings, but that effectively increased the basic cost of the building by thirty percent. There were also pressures on land prices and political coercion on expansion as the environmentalists litigated every new building site that had any environmental impact.

It wasn't the scarcity of housing that increased the prices every year, but the combination of many things including the above.

Owning a home should be within the reach of most people; the market will provide, but building codes, Unions, and the environmental drive to limit expansion has priced owning a home out of the reach of most.

I regret sounding so negative, but until government gets out of the housing business and allows the market to function, there will be no solution to the problem and only the upper middle class will be able to afford to own.

Amicus

Do go away, you obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about.

 

[Ishmael]

Actually, everything that followed can be linked back to the fact that the stock market is a castle in the air. It's built on rumour and whispers. But if that ever becomes common knowledge, then your whole bullshit system comes crashing down.

No, most of the market is based on real value, always was. But there's more than enough bullshit and hype as well. No one wants to put their worst foot forward.

Caveat Emptor.

If you don't know the game, don't fucking play it.

"You can't cheat an honest man." - George C. Scott - The Flim-Flam Man.

Ishmael

 

[Sean]

No, most of the market is based on real value, always was. But there's more than enough bullshit and hype as well. No one wants to put their worst foot forward.

Caveat Emptor.

If you don't know the game, don't fucking play it.

"You can't cheat an honest man." - George C. Scott - The Flim-Flam Man.

Ishmael

No, it isn't. Hasn't been for years. Once upon a time it was a way of raising capital for investment. Now, it's an end in itself. See the guy from UBS that was in court today? Have a look at what he was trading in.

 

[RobDownSouth]

Do go away, you obviously haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Union carpenters and bricklayers caused the housing bubble. That's rather novel. Amicus may be a spineless coward, but he's got a very vivid imagination.

 

[Ishmael]

No, it isn't. Hasn't been for years. Once upon a time it was a way of raising capital for investment. Now, it's an end in itself. See the guy from UBS that was in court today? Have a look at what he was trading in.

I'm not worried in the least, neither are any of those that I associate with. More than a few are actually prospering.

I do agree that the major houses are sitting around sucking each others dicks. And there's going to be a price to pay for that, at least for those that left their futures and fortunes to be managed by others.

Ishmael

 

[RobDownSouth]

I do agree that the major houses are sitting around sucking each others dicks. And there's going to be a price to pay for that, at least for those that left their futures and fortunes to be managed by others.

Ishmael

Why is it that on the rare occasions when you do make some sort of sense, you feel compelled to pepper your argument with homosexual imagery?

Freud would have had a field day with you....

 

[amicus]

Union carpenters and bricklayers caused the housing bubble. That's rather novel. Amicus may be a spineless coward, but he's got a very vivid imagination.

~~~

Having been a consultant to a construction company, it is not just union carpenters and bricklayers, but also electricians, framers, dry-wall installers and the unending parade of government inspectors that have increased the cost of construction of all bulldings, not just residential.

You really haven't a clue about the real world, do you? Janitor in a community college maybe? Your occupation, I mean.



amicus

 

[Loring2]

I'll believe it when you post a credible link.

Until then, it's the usual assumption that the Amicus Fact Fabrication Corporation has the night shift achieving record production levels.

Amicus has it right on the money Rubdown... The Hedge Fund industry is one result.

Banks that held bad mortgages had to sell them or die so they sold them to Lehman Brothers and others who put bundles of good mortgages with bundles of bad mortgages and sold the results to investors as Hedge Funds

Nasty business, It's more complex than I've explained but that is essentially it.

The Banking business almost went down completely as a result,

 

[stickwork]

Actually, everything that followed can be linked back to the fact that the stock market is a castle in the air. It's built on rumour and whispers. But if that ever becomes common knowledge, then your whole bullshit system comes crashing down.

That IS common knowledge, always has been.

Never stopped anybody from speculating.

Bullshit, maybe. But people like to gamble. House odds, etc never stopped a gambler, successful gambler or not.

Crash-ing down is another story, but little related to comprehension of risk as a fact.

 

[cebalrai]

Union carpenters and bricklayers caused the housing bubble. That's rather novel. Amicus may be a spineless coward, but he's got a very vivid imagination.

Damn carpenters and bricklayers fucked the whole economy by building too many houses!

 

[NeverEndingMe]

Damn carpenters and bricklayers fucked the whole economy by building too many houses!

glad to see you learning. unions are evil

 

[RobDownSouth]

Having been a consultant to a construction company...

'Consultant to a construction company', eh?

Tell me, blind one, exactly what services did you provide as a 'consultant to a construction company'? And how does a failed career in journamalism qualify you as such a 'consultant'?

I'm genuinely curious.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

'Consultant to a construction company', eh?

Tell me, blind one, exactly what services did you provide as a 'consultant to a construction company'? And how does a failed career in journamalism qualify you as such a 'consultant'?

I'm genuinely curious.

we agree right, that owning a home as a right, well is a fantasy!

 

[JohnnySavage]

Amicus has it right on the money Rubdown... The Hedge Fund industry is one result.

Banks that held bad mortgages had to sell them or die so they sold them to Lehman Brothers and others who put bundles of good mortgages with bundles of bad mortgages and sold the results to investors as Hedge Funds

Nasty business, It's more complex than I've explained but that is essentially it.

The Banking business almost went down completely as a result,

This is called a "Gross Conceptual Error."

 

[RobDownSouth]

we agree right, that owning a home as a right, well is a fantasy!

you had that sentence in the blender way too long.