Boehner violates the Logan Act

[Boxlicker101]

If there was a budget surplus, why didn't the debt go down

It sort of disappeared.

First, I could never figure out what was meant by a "surplus." As far as I was concerned, there is no such thing as a surplus of money. Second, the "surplus" was mostly a projected amount. You know how that goes: "If we keep collecting more taxes that we spend for the next X years....." Of course, the boom ended and things were back to normal. Third, there has probably never been a politician, lib. or con. who can't find a way to spend money, and they all did.

Some sensible people said things like: "If there is a surplus, why not use it to pay down the debt?" or "...reduce taxes?" However, pols are not usually all that sensible.

 

[JohnnySavage]

It sort of disappeared.

First, I could never figure out what was meant by a "surplus." As far as I was concerned, there is no such thing as a surplus of money. Second, the "surplus" was mostly a projected amount. You know how that goes: "If we keep collecting more taxes that we spend for the next X years....." Of course, the boom ended and things were back to normal. Third, there has probably never been a politician, lib. or con. who can't find a way to spend money, and they all did.

Some sensible people said things like: "If there is a surplus, why not use it to pay down the debt?" or "...reduce taxes?" However, pols are not usually all that sensible.

Bingo. The surplus was an accounting trick used in the budget predictions. Once the appropriation bills passed, it was more deficit spending.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It gets worse.

A group of 47 Republican senators has written an open letter to Iran's leaders warning them that any nuclear deal they sign with President Barack Obama's administration won’t last after Obama leaves office.

Organized by freshman Senator Tom Cotton and signed by the chamber's entire party leadership as well as potential 2016 presidential contenders Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz and Rand Paul, the letter is meant not just to discourage the Iranian regime from signing a deal but also to pressure the White House into giving Congress some authority over the process.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

how did you get to be so fucked up? was your mom a crack junkie? is SeanH your father?

It gets worse.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

It gets worse.

Now that would definitely qualify as a violation of the Logan Act. Definitely an intrusion by the Congress into treaty negotiations.

"The President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of our nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." - Justice Sutherland, majority opinion, United States vs. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp.

 

[CNYCarol]

Obummer violates the Constitution EVERYDAY.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Obummer . . .

Don't. It's lamer than lame.

 

[KingOrfeo]

It gets worse.

And Iran's Foreign Minister responds:

Asked about the open letter of 47 US Senators to Iranian leaders, the Iranian Foreign Minister, Dr. Javad Zarif, responded that “in our view, this letter has no legal value and is mostly a propaganda ploy. It is very interesting that while negotiations are still in progress and while no agreement has been reached, some political pressure groups are so afraid even of the prospect of an agreement that they resort to unconventional methods, unprecedented in diplomatic history. This indicates that like Netanyahu, who considers peace as an existential threat, some are opposed to any agreement, regardless of its content.”

<snip>

Foreign Minister Zarif added that “I should bring one important point to the attention of the authors and that is, the world is not the United States, and the conduct of inter-state relations is governed by international law, and not by US domestic law. The authors may not fully understand that in international law, governments represent the entirety of their respective states, are responsible for the conduct of foreign affairs, are required to fulfil the obligations they undertake with other states and may not invoke their internal law as justification for failure to perform their international obligations.”

The Iranian Foreign Minister added that “change of administration does not in any way relieve the next administration from international obligations undertaken by its predecessor in a possible agreement about Iran’s peaceful nuclear program.” He continued “I wish to enlighten the authors that if the next administration revokes any agreement with ‘the stroke of a pen,’ as they boast, it will have simply committed a blatant violation of international law.” He emphasized that if the current negotiation with P5+1 [Britain, China, France, Germany Russia and the United States] result in a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action, it will not be a bilateral agreement between Iran and the US, but rather one that will be concluded with the participation of five other countries, including all permanent members of the Security Council, and will also be endorsed by a Security Council resolution.

Zarif expressed the hope that his comments “may enrich the knowledge of the authors to recognize that according to international law, Congress may not ‘modify the terms of the agreement at any time’ as they claim, and if Congress adopts any measure to impede its implementation, it will have committed a material breach of US obligations.”

 

[phrodeau]

Those 47 Senators must not be the grown-up ones.

 

[Wrong Element]

It gets worse.

From "Party of Lincoln" to "Party of Treason" in 150 short years.

 

[AuroraLens]

I very much doubt Boehner or anybody else would ever be charged with violation of The Logan Act. Nobody ever has been convicted of it and it is so broadly written as to very likely be unconstitutional.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Logan+Act

Finding it unconstitutional would be tough since most republicans argue "founders intent". The actual law was signed by John Adams, an actual founder. The bigger problem is arguing that the Speaker of the House is a private citizen.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Obummer violates the Constitution EVERYDAY.

The grownups are talking.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

The fucking disloyal opposition at it again. This is too much. Is there a mechanism for censure?

 

[Paendragon]

It gets worse.

Now that would definitely qualify as a violation of the Logan Act. Definitely an intrusion by the Congress into treaty negotiations.

"The President alone has the power to speak or listen as a representative of our nation. He makes treaties with the advice and consent of the Senate; but he alone negotiates. Into the field of negotiation the Senate cannot intrude, and Congress itself is powerless to invade it." - Justice Sutherland, majority opinion, United States vs. Curtiss-Wright Export Corp.

Okay . . . I said on page one that the Logan Act thing with Netanyahu was flimsy . . . but I agree that congress has no business contacting a foreign government to set policy.

 

[phrodeau]

Okay . . . I said on page one that the Logan Act thing with Netanyahu was flimsy . . . but I agree that congress has no business contacting a foreign government to set policy.

To be fair, it was an open letter, and not a specific contact.

Still, it's only to be expected from Senator Cotton. Keep your eyes out for more from him.

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/12/sar...why_new_senator_tom_cotton_is_so_frightening/

And with the GOP on a national security tear these days, he’s sure to be a big hit with the base. There’s nothing they love more than a politician spouting cretinous foreign policy nonsense and ignoring all evidence that challenges their worldview.

Heather Digby Parton
2-12-15

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

To be fair, it was an open letter, and not a specific contact.

Still, it's only to be expected from Senator Cotton. Keep your eyes out for more from him.

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/12/sar...why_new_senator_tom_cotton_is_so_frightening/

Just "light treason".

 

[AllyRose]

They only committed "light treason" because they're patriots!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Well, "lite treason," really.

 

[Ulaven_Demorte]

They only committed "light treason" because they're patriots!

Deliberately trying to sabotage a nuclear treaty with Iran isn't treason really, since we aren't actually at war with Iran...

It's just semi-treason. Quasi-treason. The margarine of treason. The diet coke of treason. Just one calorie, not treasonous enough.

If a group of Democratic congress persons got together and did this to a republican president what would the GOP call it? Treason.

It is however a definite violation of the Logan Act.

 

[AllyRose]

Publicans love their diet coke.

 

[sr71plt]

Deliberately trying to sabotage a nuclear treaty with Iran isn't treason really, since we aren't actually at war with Iran...

It's just semi-treason. Quasi-treason. The margarine of treason. The diet coke of treason. Just one calorie, not treasonous enough.

If a group of Democratic congress persons got together and did this to a republican president what would the GOP call it? Treason.

It is however a definite violation of the Logan Act.

Whatever it is, it tears at the fabric of the checks and balances system that has kept the United States cooking along for an unprecedented period and should be nipped in the bud--very publicly. It's really shocking how much the extremists on the right have been willing to destroy of the delicate balance of the American system to feed their short-term petty hatreds.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Whatever it is, it tears at the fabric of the checks and balances system that has kept the United States cooking along for an unprecedented period and should be nipped in the bud--very publicly. It's really shocking how much the extremists on the right have been willing to destroy of the delicate balance of the American system to feed their short-term petty hatreds.

An unprecedented period? There have been plenty of countries that lasted as long or longer than the US and the most mature thing here is to simply ignore it. This really is one of those laws that's still on the books because nobody ever bothers to take anything off the books. We just stop enforcing laws.

 

[Wrong Element]

Just "light treason".

Well, by historic Arkansas standards, it is.

 

[sr71plt]

An unprecedented period? There have been plenty of countries that lasted as long or longer than the US and the most mature thing here is to simply ignore it. This really is one of those laws that's still on the books because nobody ever bothers to take anything off the books. We just stop enforcing laws.

I was talking government systems, not countries. So, name some countries that have operated under the same governmental system for as long as the United States has operated under the Articles of Confederation.

You ignore something like this it will become precedent of what's OK to do--for factions of the legislative branch to run their own foreign policy relations with foreign governments. The Iranians, at least, recognized how dangerous this would be in their response to this instance of it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I was talking government systems, not countries. So, name some countries that have operated under the same governmental system for as long as the United States has operated under the Articles of Confederation.

You ignore something like this it will become precedent of what's OK to do--for factions of the legislative branch to run their own foreign policy relations with foreign governments. The Iranians, at least, recognized how dangerous this would be in their response to this instance of it.

Even so Rome lasted pretty much untouched for how many centuries? China, the Ottomans, Egypt. Canada is right up there with us. I think you mean that it has to nit picky unless you're are really that up in arms about the Constitution.

For the last six years at least, debatably the the last fifteen the country has been torn apart by people acting like children. You give this thing attention and it becomes a rallying point, you ignore it and it simply goes away. No fuss, no muss. Besides it seems to be somewhat questionable if he even did break a law instead of protocol and has as been mentioned before in this thread nobody has ever actually been convicted of this it may be Unconstitutional and it's really just a rolled up newspaper to thwack people who annoy you.