Boring Ass Political Question

[MADDOG]

So would it be correct to say, that the presidential candidates decide who they'd like to be vice President, and a vote for that candidate equals a vote for the vice President that candidate has chosen?

In other words, Clinton wants Gore to be his vice President, so Gore becomes his right hand man because of that wish. And anyone who votes for Clinton is voting for Gore? Or must Gore be elected in his own right?

If so, does that then mean that an Independent Candidate could chose his best mate from school or something? (Provided he met the requirements).

 

[catlover]

Pres & VP

yes- they run together as a team - the VP is Not individually elected

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Weird Harold]

It should also be noted, that there is no legal requirement for the presidential candidate and VP candidate to be of the same party.

It is concievable that an independent candidate might choose a popular republican, democrat, or third party member as his running mate.

More likely would be two "third-parties" teaming up to form a coalition ticket with a presidential candidate from one party and a VP from the other.

When first started voting, I was registered in Oregon. At that time, the votes for president and VP were counted separately. I don't know if that's still the case there or not. My Nevada sample ballot for this year lists the Pres/VP candidates as one vote for the pair.

I'm not sure how the votes are counted in the electoral college now. At one point in the evolution of our electoral process, it was theoretically possible to elect the republican presidential candidate and the democratic VP candidate.

 

[MADDOG]

Thank you all so much. I think I am just one question away now from fucking off. Promise.

How long would a piece of legistlation be before Congress before being voted on in a non-crisis situation. Would it be voted on the same day? Or does it have to be there for a minumum amount of time?

MADDOG

 

[Weird Harold]

How long would a piece of legistlation be before Congress before being voted on in a non-crisis situation. Would it be voted on the same day? Or does it have to be there for a minumum amount of time?

In theory, a bill could be passed the day it was submitted.

In practice, we're talking about one of the largest committees in the world. Committee: An entity with six or more feet, and no brain.

The only legal time limit of any kind I know of, is that if a bill is not passed by the end of the session, then it must be resubmitted in the following session. i.e. a bill does not carry over from one legislative session to the next.

 

[MADDOG]

Thanks Harold. Let me just see if I have this straight though. Can a bill be introduced into congress as an idea, then be rallied for, then voted on at a later session?

Or does the campaiging for the bill take place before the bill is ever introduced? Followed by a vote hopefully the same day it is introduced? And if so, would a date be set for that bill to be introdced?

MADDOG

 

[Weird Harold]

Or does the campaiging for the bill take place before the bill is ever introduced? Followed by a vote hopefully the same day it is introduced? And if so, would a date be set for that bill to be introdced?

I'm not exactly sure of the procedures. If you have a copy of _Robert's Rules of Order_, that's very close to the procedures used in our congress. There are some differences from Robert's Rules, as well as differences between the House rules and the Senate Rules.

In general, whoever wants a law passed finds a "sponsor" to submit it as a bill. "Sponsor" being a member of congress who can be convinced that the proposed law is a good idea.

Once a sponsor is found, it is presented to to the House or Senate (sometimes both at once) and scheduled for debate. When it gets scheduled depends on how much support it has from the party "whips" and senior members. (seniority is a big deal in the internal workings of both the House and Senate. The "Whips" are the members designated by the party to marshall support or opposition.)

At the point it is assigned a number, it becomes a bill. Once a bill is on the agenda, it will most often be voted into a committee for evaluation as soon as it comes up for debate the first time.

The various committees specialize in appropriations, defense, Health/Education/Welfare, and dozens of other categories of legislation. Each committee considers each bill assigned to it in what ever order they decide is appropriate. Sometimes that means not at all, and the bill "dies in committee."

Eventually, the committe releases the bill back to congress as a whole to be rescheduled for debate with a recommendation for passage. (either House or Senate)

Once the bill has been debated and modified by amendments to the satisfaction of the members, it gets voted on and sent to the other house of congress where the process is repeated.

In theory, a bill could be put on the next day's agenda and passed the first time it comes up, be sent to the other house for the afternoon session, passed there, and be signed by the president before dinner.

I don't know of any case where that has ever happened, other than the Declaration of War in Dec 1941, and I'm not sure even about that. I know FDR's "Day of Infamy" speach was on the 8th of Dec, but I don't think war was actually declared (i.e. FDR signed it) until the 12th of Dec.

It's an incredably cumbersome system, but we get very few laws passed that are spur of the moment decision.

Do a search for "Schoolhouse Rock." There is a much more coherent explanation there on this subject set to music.

I think there is a FAQ page at Congress.gov as well.

If it's any consolation, I don't know any more about your government than you do ours.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Renee]

A bill that has been agreed to in identical form by both bodies becomes the law of the land only after --

Presidential approval; or if the President fails to return an objection to the House in which it originated within 10 days while Congress is in session; or by the overriding of a
presidential veto by a two-thirds vote in each House.

It does not become law without the President's signature if Congress by their final adjournment prevent its return with objections. This is known as a "pocket veto".

After a measure passes in the House, it goes to the Senate for consideration. A bill must pass both bodies in the same form before it can be presented to the President for signature into law.

If the Senate changes the language of the measure, it must return to the House for concurrence or additional changes. This back-and-forth negotiation may occur on the House floor, with the House accepting or rejecting Senate amendments or complete Senate text. Often a conference committee will be appointed with both House and Senate members. This group will resolve the differences in committee and report the identical measure back to both bodies for a vote..

Your answer was in my original post hon.

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[Weird Harold]

[BYour answer was in my original post hon. [/B]

Shhhhhh! Where do you think I learned all that stuff? You think I actually watch Schoolhouse Rock?

 

[Renee]

Lol WH.... you mean you don't watch it? I love that stuff. Conjunction junction what's your function??? I'm just a bill sitting on Capitol Hill...

I am filled with info from those little shows I know all of the words of each persons part to all of those songs... lol. Sad isn't it? I'll even sing it for you if you want me to.

 

[Lasher]

I guess I'm getting to this thread kinda late, but what the hell...

I'm almost certain that a Pres has chosen a VP from an opposing party, I know John Adams and Thomas Jefferson didn't exactly see eye to eye, but they did work together, extensively. That was before the current political system was established. I believe it was the election of 1824 that provoked a change in the way the VP is selected, prior to that, it was the runner up for the Pres who got the job, not a pre-selected candidate.

You had the right administration, but the wrong year, Celestial Body.

The elections of 1788 and 1792 went off pretty much without a hitch because Washington stayed more or less above party politics. John Adams came in second in both elections and served as Washington's VP thru both terms. However, the election of 1796 was very much a partisan affair, and the Adams/Jefferson administration pointed out the folly of that particular section of the Constitution.

The 12th Amendment was ratified in 1804 and is still the basis of how we elect the President and Vice President. It looks something like this...

The Electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President, and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate; -- the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted; -- The person having the greatest number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice... The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

It is possible that a President and Vice-President could be from different parties, although to say it is highly unlikely is just a little bit of an understatement - at least in today's political climate. Something of more interest, I think, is that 5 Presidents have actually served the majority of their terms without a Vice-President.

Just how slow can government move? On September 25, 1789 the following Amendment to the US Constitution was proposed...

No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of representatives shall have intervened.

...And was ratified as the 27th Amendment to the US Constitution on May 7, 1992 - just slightly under 203 years. Obviously the Amendment process is distinct from the legislative process WH described above - a bill does die at the end of the legislative succession - but that's one hell of a bit of trivia, huh?

 

[MADDOG]

Could I trouble the great minds of lit one more time? Then I'm like 99% sure I'll be able to let this thread die.

1 So, a bill is before Congress. By what method is it voted on? Silent ballot? Or by a show of hands or some other method? And do they say anything as they vote - Like "Aye", or "Nai"?

2. Is that vote counted immediately, and then handed up to the speaker or someone else?

3. Does the speaker or anyone else read out the number of votes? Or does he state the winner? Or none of the above? If none, what happens?

4. Does the bill have to be passed in both houses? If so, is voting conducted in the same mannor in both houses? How many votes are there in each house? And what size majority is required? 2/3?

5. Does the passed bill end up on the Presidents desk to be signed?

6. If a President lied about himself to become President in a way that made him ineligable for President to begin with (For example, claiming to be American Born when he was in fact Canadian), what charge or charges would he most likely be brought up on?

I know some of these questions have been answered, but I just need to make sure I'm clear on this. I'm really sorry for this, and I do appreciate all the help you guys have given me. It's been invaluable.

MADDOG

 

[MADDOG]

Could I trouble the great minds of lit one more time? Then I'm like 99% sure I'll be able to let this thread die.

1 So, a bill is before Congress. By what method is it voted on? Silent ballot? Or by a show of hands or some other method? And do they say anything as they vote - Like "Aye", or "Nai"?

2. Is that vote counted immediately, and then handed up to the speaker or someone else?

3. Does the speaker or anyone else read out the number of votes? Or does he state the winner? Or none of the above? If none, what happens?

4. Does the bill have to be passed in both houses? If so, is voting conducted in the same mannor in both houses? How many votes are there in each house? And what size majority is required? 2/3?

5. Does the passed bill end up on the Presidents desk to be signed?

6. If a President lied about himself to become President in a way that made him ineligable for President to begin with (For example, claiming to be American Born when he was in fact Canadian), what charge or charges would he most likely be brought up on?

I know some of these questions have been answered, but I just need to make sure I'm clear on this. I'm really sorry for this, and I do appreciate all the help you guys have given me. It's been invaluable.

MADDOG

Actually, you know what? I no longer need an answer to number 5. But I have something else to ask...

Where would the charges against a former President be heard? In which court? (Say in the lying about the birth county scenario?)

MADDOG

 

[catlover]

Congress - voting

I didnt print nor write the questions but will do my best:

#1 votes man\y be taken by voice or by having members stand and be coubted, but usually, and ALWAYS on an important matter, they arte coubted by electronic device, where each member has a coded card he inserts into a recorder and his vote is permanently recorded and they are automatically and instantly counted. The result uis announced by the Speaker or Speaker protem of the House, or by the presiding member of the Senate.

#2,3,4 5& 6 i cant remember the questions - but on some (very few) items 2/3 is required- particularly for a veto override. Most items are simple majority.

On the ineligibility of a Pres - these days it would be very unlikely- believe me this would be fully researched by the opposition prior ro an election- but if discovered later would probably cause an impeachment. You mention Canadian citizen- Our constitution requires a president to be US born- a naturalized citizen is not eligible

On hearing charges - impeachment is brought by the house and heard by the Senate. Any other charges against a sitting president are subject to discussion - that is the case now - there are pending criminal charges against Clinton now, but they cannot be heard until he leaves office and will be heard in the court with appropriate jurisdiction (specifically in this case - a perjury charge, to which he has admitted guilt- to be heard by the Federal Court in Arkansas

[Edited by catlover on 11-01-2000 at 07:13 AM]

 

[Renee]

Okay WH ... he's forcing me to sing Schoolhouse Rock...


I'm Just A Bill


Boy: Woof! You sure gotta climb a lot of steps to get to this Capitol Building here in Washington. But I wonder who that sad little scrap of paper is?

I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city.
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law someday
At least I hope and pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.

Boy: Gee, Bill, you certainly have a lot of patience and courage.

Bill: Well I got this far. When I started, I wasn't even a bill, I was just an idea. Some folks back home decided they wanted a law passed, so they called their local Congressman and he said, "You're right, there oughta be a law." Then he sat down and wrote me out and introduced me to Congress. And I became a bill, and I'll remain a bill until they decide to make me a law.

I'm just a bill
Yes I'm only a bill,
And I got as far as Capitol Hill.
Well, now I'm stuck in committee
And I'll sit here and wait
While a few key Congressmen discuss and debate
Whether they should let me be a law.
How I hope and pray that they will,
But today I am still just a bill.

Boy: Listen to those congressmen arguing! Is all that discussion and debate about you?

Bill: Yeah, I'm one of the lucky ones. Most bills never even get this far. I hope they decide to report on me favourably, otherwise I may die.

Boy: Die?

Bill: Yeah, die in committee. Oooh, but it looks like I'm gonna live! Now I go to the House of Representatives, and they vote on me.

Boy: If they vote yes, what happens?

Bill: Then I go to the Senate and the whole thing starts all over again.

Boy: Oh no!

Bill: Oh yes!

I'm just a bill
Yes, I'm only a bill
And if they vote for me on Capitol Hill
Well, then I'm off to the White House
Where I'll wait in a line
With a lot of other bills
For the president to sign
And if he signs me, then I'll be a law.
How I hope and pray that he will,
But today I am still just a bill.

Boy: You mean even if the whole Congress says you should be a law, the president can still say no?

Bill: Yes, that's called a veto. If the President vetoes me, I have to go back to Congress and they vote on me again, and by that time you're so old...

Boy: By that time it's very unlikely that you'll become a law. It's not easy to become a law, is it?

Bill: No!

But how I hope and I pray that I will,
But today I am still just a bill.

Congressman: He signed you, Bill! Now you're a law!

Bill: Oh yes!!!

 

[CelestialBody]

 

[catlover]

CB - I dont remember - you have that nice MSU libe to research it in - if I were there id like to check it out with you - you're much too nice to be wasting your time in a boring old political thread like this, when there's good stuff on SRP

 

[MADDOG]

Thanks again for all your help. I have just one more question and I can state with absoulute certainty that this is the last time I'll ever need to ask a political question again.

This is just in relation to the timing of an election. Is there any reason it couldn't be held earlier? Like say around July or August? I mean under normal circumstances. Or are all Elections around November?

MADDOG

 

[forgetunome]

Elections are in November and always on a Tuesday.

 

[Renee]

Except when they are in June... lol.

In June we had the Primary Election. In this election, we elected who the following:

Presidential Canidates;
Delegates to National Convention;
Members of the United States Senate;
Members of the House Representatives;
Freeloaders.. I mean Freeholders; and
Members of the County Committee for this one you have to vote one male and one female.

 

[MADDOG]

OK, that complicates matters. By when does a candidate have to declare their desoire to run for President? Could a candidate decide in say July or August after the Primaries that they wanted to run? I'm thinking of independent candidates in particular.

MADDOG

 

[CelestialBody]