Can you tell the difference?

[Bobmi357]

WQ, I'll agree that a good healthy relationship will have both partners already aware of what problems might exist, but even the best of relationships goes through phases, good and bad.

Its important to remember that communication is the key to maintaining a good relationship. Communication, not screeching and hurling dangerous objects, not accusing and pouting.

The simple fact is Cealy has made an eloquent case that she feels something is now missing from her relationship which she'd like to recapture. She's posted her thoughts her and all I asked was why she was posting here instead of trying to talk to her husband.

Sure there comes a time when talk no longer works, when the relationship is on the rocks and heading for the briny deep. But suspect that a vast number of people that post their problems here, wouldn't need to, if they just tried really talking to their mate.

Its easy to post a message to this board, no one knows who I really am, I am an anonymous poster, my words mere pixels on your screen. I can post here, complain here, bitch here, flirt here, and no one who really knows me is any wiser. Its a lot harder to start a face to face conversation with someone you care about, especially when that conversation concerns something they did or said that bothers or hurt you.

My comments to Cealy do not reflect on your situation WarriorQueen. Nothing in her posts suggests she had problems similar to your own. Everyone is forced to address and modify the advice they recieve here based on their own situations. I, for one, know that trying to really talk to my ex-wife was a complete waste of time, but I tried anyway. Don't let one bad experience color your entire perception of the male half of the species WQ, if I had done that, I wouldn't have found my second wife. And lord knows I sure had good reason to mistrust females by that point in time.

 

[herecomestherain]

Now that I've had my morning coffee and can type...

Now this might come out in a post caffeine induced rush and I'm going to risk sounding a little new age, I feel that I'm amongst friends and you'll forgive me...some thoughts, of course based purely on my own experience and observation...

Waiting too long to rebuild - if your heart is open, it's not too late. I've been in a unreconcilable situation when I can honestly say I physically felt my heart was closed, impenetrable. It was way too late.

If you sense that something is not right in your relationship/life and do nothing, it's almost like an act of collusion. It's scary to get in and acknowledge your feelings be they feelings of discontent or whatever, but I think it is critical. The muckier they are the more you've got to acknowledge and roll around in them. Trust that you'll live through the analysis of your thoughts and feelings.
It's impossible to live authentically until you do or run the risk of living a life feeling "bent out of shape." The feelings/emotions/thoughts are signals, don't ignore them.

And as Ed De Bono is fond of saying ...you've got to get past analysis of the problem to the next phase, the bit where you get creative about what you are going to do about your situation. Analysis alone is not enough.

Things change, we change, what we are prepared to accept as our lot in life changes. I have to check in regularly to see how what I'm doing in my life is actually close to what I want to be doing. Don't know if any of that makes any sense?

 

[midwestyankee]

Re: Now that I've had my morning coffee and can type...

Now this might come out in a post caffeine induced rush and I'm going to risk sounding a little new age, I feel that I'm amongst friends and you'll forgive me...some thoughts, of course based purely on my own experience and observation...

Waiting too long to rebuild - if your heart is open, it's not too late. I've been in a unreconcilable situation when I can honestly say I physically felt my heart was closed, impenetrable. It was way too late.

If you sense that something is not right in your relationship/life and do nothing, it's almost like an act of collusion. It's scary to get in and acknowledge your feelings be they feelings of discontent or whatever, but I think it is critical. The muckier they are the more you've got to acknowledge and roll around in them. Trust that you'll live through the analysis of your thoughts and feelings.
It's impossible to live authentically until you do or run the risk of living a life feeling "bent out of shape." The feelings/emotions/thoughts are signals, don't ignore them.

And as Ed De Bono is fond of saying ...you've got to get past analysis of the problem to the next phase, the bit where you get creative about what you are going to do about your situation. Analysis alone is not enough.

Things change, we change, what we are prepared to accept as our lot in life changes. I have to check in regularly to see how what I'm doing in my life is actually close to what I want to be doing. Don't know if any of that makes any sense?

This makes a good deal of sense. And I do generally like what Ed De Bono has had to say about thinking and creativity. He also has plenty to say about problem solving.

One thing that stuck with me from De Bono was this: "Useful communication must always be in the language of the receiver." This is a challenging concept when we also try to express ourselves only in terms of our own perceptions so as to avoid the appearance of challenging or accusing our partner. But try we must.

 

[herecomestherain]

Assertiveness, empathy,change management and problem solving, all essential life skills among the many that we need to continually hone. The other point I guess I was making about problem solving in general, is the need to turn your attention from trying to understand the "why" of the problem to the "how" of the solution. This has to happen when you're good and ready,when you truly have a good grasp of the situation but it still has to happen, however difficult or ugly the solution maybe.

 

[midwestyankee]

Assertiveness, empathy,change management and problem solving, all essential life skills among the many that we need to continually hone. The other point I guess I was making about problem solving in general, is the need to turn your attention from trying to understand the "why" of the problem to the "how" of the solution. This has to happen when you're good and ready,when you truly have a good grasp of the situation but it still has to happen, however difficult or ugly the solution maybe.

This is a good point. And as someone with overly developed analytical skills, I sometimes need a reminder to dive in and start the problem solving. I'll have to take another look at De Bono to see if I can borrow any of his tools for this.

 

[herecomestherain]

MWY I owe you , I'll have a dig around and see if I can post some problems solving tools tomorrow, I used to be in training and have the library to prove it. Chronic hoarder!

 

[midwestyankee]

MWY I owe you , I'll have a dig around and see if I can post some problems solving tools tomorrow, I used to be in training and have the library to prove it. Chronic hoarder!

I have thought of the PMI, which I often recommend to my clients but would need to teach it to the wife. But that's true of any of the tools I suppose. But I'd be glad to hear any thoughts you might have on appropriate tools.

 

[Phoenix Stone]

Bumping.

This is sorta what I was trying to get at with my lust back into love thread. And even seems to tie in with Sheath's restlessness thread. I've been using my analytical mind to pin down exactly what things I got from some sort of outside contact, or from memory, that weren't happening in the long-term marriage with a wonderful man whom I love so much. I'd put the feelings off a irrelevant, even immature or stupid but that doesn't make them go away. They may go underground and then surprise you later. The body needs what it needs. I don't think we have a craving for a reason, even if the way it Says it wants to be fed is unhealthy. For instance, my theory about most drug use is that it is an attempt to solve or cure something else that is missing for that person. Happy, soul-satisfied people don't become addicts. That doesn't mean the drug is the way to handle the craving, it just makes you aware that there is an unfulfilled need somewhere. My guess is that most often there is a need for more excitement in life (exchange drug addiction for bungee-jumping addiction?), or an untreated depression.
Anyway, it sounds like, like me, this woman would like to be getting her sexual excitement, her edge-play, her darker needs, met with her husband. And talking/communication isn't the full fix. You have to figure out what you can do about it. And try things. Don't know if it will turn out we are incompatible in that way after all these years or not. We're certainly trying things.
He is a very private person and doesn't like my talking about it here. But it's cheaper than a therapist. (And I've been, have training, and know what they'd say.) And it helps me to think it out, outloud. To people who occasionally respond, with advice or sympathy.
Anyway, thank you and this board for being here. Will be back, working on it.

 

[SensualCealy]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.
Last night may prove to him that he doesnt need to wander to get the excitement he craves.
We went to a hockey game and while sitting watching the game he slipped his hand onto my thigh and realized I was wearing stockings under my jeans!
The look I got seemed as though he was undressing me right there.
We went straight to bed after the kids, and played around a bit. Then I told him what I wanted, not giving him a chance to say yes or no or that he was too tired- frankly I didnt care if he was or not! I knew what I needed and I was going to get it- with or without him!!!
I think that surprized him the most, he did as I told him ( he likes the domme role play) and we both were satisfied, and damn tired! lol
Hopefully this is the path to a new beginning.
Thanks again,
Cealy

 

[midwestyankee]

Thanks for all the advice everyone.
Last night may prove to him that he doesnt need to wander to get the excitement he craves.
We went to a hockey game and while sitting watching the game he slipped his hand onto my thigh and realized I was wearing stockings under my jeans!
The look I got seemed as though he was undressing me right there.
We went straight to bed after the kids, and played around a bit. Then I told him what I wanted, not giving him a chance to say yes or no or that he was too tired- frankly I didnt care if he was or not! I knew what I needed and I was going to get it- with or without him!!!
I think that surprized him the most, he did as I told him ( he likes the domme role play) and we both were satisfied, and damn tired! lol
Hopefully this is the path to a new beginning.
Thanks again,
Cealy

Good for you.

 

[sxylegs]

I like that idea too, about loving someone being an action. You explained yourself quite clearly, MY.

Why the interest? Do you feel you are in-love with someone?

A lot of guys that I know don't believe there is any different between the way they feel about their parents and their girlfriend except for the romantic or sexual part........maybe they have a point.....that way they dont put someone one the pedistal so they can fall off......

 

[Phoenix Stone]

...And I'm talking 20 years of sliding here, so the work we have to do now is enormous.

Much of what you are writing sounds so familiar. But, while maybe this is incredibly naive, I don't think it necessarily requires enormous work to fix. You (and I) have 20+ years of otherwise good marriage and communication to work from. Don't discount all that's there. Many important things have been worked out together before now. Isn't this just more of the same (however unexpected at this late date)?

... then just imploded from the accumulated unhappiness without really knowing why or being aware of what hit them. Maybe that's what's behind all those mid-life crises we read about and that make up the core of so many bad movies.

That's certainly what it felt like to me. Imploding and not knowing what hit me, though, in my case, it was a seemingly external event that started things off.

Wishing us both luck (and skill.)

 

[midwestyankee]

Why the interest? Do you feel you are in-love with someone?

A lot of guys that I know don't believe there is any different between the way they feel about their parents and their girlfriend except for the romantic or sexual part........maybe they have a point.....that way they dont put someone one the pedistal so they can fall off......

Ah, there is so much mythology surrounding love. The idea that the beloved must be seen as an ideal or somehow we don't love her is bunk. You can't love an ideal, though you can certainly admire one and feel great about yourself for having "captured" or "won" the ideal mate. But you can love someone who is human and has a future of growth ahead. For it is in the loving that we assist in and contribute to that growth.

I'm not certain I follow the second point about finding no difference between different loves, but it seems to me that anyone who does not see fundamental differences between the love of family and romantic love for a long-term mate has done little or no thinking about it. Sure, similarities exist, but the differences are profound.

 

[midwestyankee]

Much of what you are writing sounds so familiar. But, while maybe this is incredibly naive, I don't think it necessarily requires enormous work to fix. You (and I) have 20+ years of otherwise good marriage and communication to work from. Don't discount all that's there. Many important things have been worked out together before now. Isn't this just more of the same (however unexpected at this late date)?



That's certainly what it felt like to me. Imploding and not knowing what hit me, though, in my case, it was a seemingly external event that started things off.

Wishing us both luck (and skill.)

Since most of the problems I see in my situation stem from poor communication, I am less hopeful than you. I wish you luck.