Chain Story Discussion

[GoddessKaren]

Sounds good

I am definitely in. I have no problem following the "rules."

By the way, Judo, I love your description of the medallion! Thank you for taking all of that time to lay that out!

Just on a side note, I am going to be out of town for 10 days as of this Saturday, and will have very limited, if any, access to the internet. Have I sufficiently reserved my timeslot? Because if not, I will be happy to sign up on the new sign up thread, I just won't be able to do so until I get back. *sigh*

Todd, I think your idea sounds fine. However, as was so "helpfully" pointed out by WhisperSecret, I obviously have no clue what tone means, since I am not a "serious" author and all that. So, don't ask me.

karen

 

[Johnny_Boy]

Okay, as far as I can remember about history, the Wild West was from the late 1800's to the Early 1900s. The basic skelton of my story? A gambler wins the talisman from a poker game, travels the west, getting in trouble from the talismans power, than ends up in a duel where he is shot and killed. Of course, this is just the bare bones, so any suggestions I'll gladly accept.

 

[karmadog]

Am I too late?

I would like to join the story. I don't really want to be last, but could I have the winter of 1917-1918? For the old west I don't think Todd would want to be any later the the 1890's, so that should leave enough room.

Anyhow, let me know y'all.

PS Judo, you might want to show some links to photos of depictions of the two faces so everyone works with the same images in mind. The alien/Atlantis origins don't appeal to me, but, as was stated, the characters probably wouldn't know about it anyhow, so I can deal.

 

[Whispersecret]

If I was on my high horse again, I apologize. I tend to get up there a lot.

I haven't chosen a time period because I haven't committed yet. I want to see the parameters first before I make a decision. If I can comply with them and the real life timing works out all right for me, then I'll join in.

I agree with KM, as usual. The last chain story wasn't cohesive. Hopefully the fact that the unifying thing about this chain is an object and not a person will help.

To me, the tone is the overall feeling you get when you read it. KM was right, the tone she set was melancholy and regretful. That tone should have been maintained because she was writing the memoir after everything happened.

Judo, great work on that background info. As usual, you're very organized...a born leader.

Some thoughts:

Dense marble won't be lightweight. How about ivory or bone?

I don't understand how the sexual enlightenment thing works. If someone is sexually enlightened as described, then he would have no need for control over someone else sexually.

I rather like the idea that the talisman controls you, not the other way around. The talisman decides what it will teach you. Everyone has something to learn. The most interesting stories are about people who change during the course of the story, and if the character comes into the story with no lesson to be learned...<shrugs>

Also, if the unenlightened person forgets what happens, how the heck is he supposed to become enlightened? You can't learn from mistakes unless you remember that you made them. Right?

 

[JUDO]

Talisman Clarifications

Originally posted by Whispersecret -
I don't understand how the sexual enlightenment thing works. If someone is sexually enlightened as described, then he would have no need for control over someone else sexually.

Yes, they would; particularly if they are attempting to control someone else's sexual organs for their benefit (see the notes above). The original purpose of the talisman was to be used by the Yogi's to help unfertile couples conceive (see notes above).

by Whispersecret
I rather like the idea that the talisman controls you, not the other way around. The talisman decides what it will teach you. Everyone has something to learn. The most interesting stories are about people who change during the course of the story, and if the character comes into the story with no lesson to be learned...<shrugs>

This is already what will happen with each bearer who is not sexually enlightened. To some extent, depending on how sexually enlightened they are, they will be confounded, betrayed or influenced by the will of Shakti (see notes above).

And the talisman does not teach, it influences the unenlightened bearer towards the will of Shakti. (see notes above).

by Whispersecret -
Also, if the unenlightened person forgets what happens, how the heck is he supposed to become enlightened? You can't learn from mistakes unless you remember that you made them. Right?

Good question!

Clarification:
It is not the talisman's responsibility (by power or design) to get the person enlightened, and the only thing that it "channels" is the raw sexual power of Shakti.


- Shaivistic Talisman Expert Judo

PS - Good idea on the pictures. I will look around for them and share (hopefully today).

Oh, and WS, if the talisman is 1 1/4" in diameter and 1/16" thick, it should be fairly light even if carved from dense marble (also fairly translucent). No? I could go for ivory, if pushed. What say?

Off to look for pictures.

 

[RisiaSkye]

I disagree that stories must maintain consistent tone in order to be cohesive. Something that goes through multiple experiences with different people is going to have different trajectories. If these are self-contained stories, as opposed to a novel with each chapter written by different authors, I don't see this as an impossibility--within reason, of course. I think that tonal variation is completely possible if it is handled with care.

The problem with last year's chain, in my opinion, is that many of the authors put apparently no energy into making sure the stories had anything to do with one another. I don't think I personally did this, but I doubt than anyone sees themselves as personally responsible for the story's weaknesses. Several of the stories were stand-alones that had nothing to do with contributing to a picture of a single person. The character lacked continuity, and the character was the center, the one thing that most needed to hold together.

With an inanimate object, I think, even with one that has a purpose and a possible intent of its own, there's a good deal more flexibility. The main action of the mini-stories will depend upon other characters, which can and will change in each era. With a framing narrative, though, developing the Talisman itself as a continuous item/character, a continual story can and will develop. This still allows for tone changes between individual eras, I think, within reason. . If it's the life of the talisman, in chapter by era, I think it's even likely. There are eras of conflict, and some of peace, there are kind possessors and cruel ones. The lessons each needs to learn in order to get the very same wisdom will not be the same, nor will they learn them in the same ways.

I intended to write a story set in the 1940s in California, based around the organizing of a cannery and a relationship between a crew boss and a worker. Actually, I still hope to do that.

No offense, KM, but I'm a bit bothered by your suggestion that most authors don't give any consideration to ideas or audience. It's an arrogant assumption, I think, and in context it suggests that the only reason to disagree with your view of a chain story is ignorance or shallowness on the part of the writer. I say this bluntly because I admire your honesty, and I think you're fully aware that I wouldn't intentionally insult you. So please, don't take it personally.

I am, of course, completely happy to fall in line with whatever's going on around me. As I believe I did last year, I adapt to the environment. I just don't get in lock-step. There's a difference between saying "make it a real story" and saying "make it a story I would write." Enlightenment, even from the same source, can take many forms depending upon whom it affects, as actual theology shows us quite clearly.

I don't believe I misunderstood the point, I simply disagree. And I'm still not convinced that you're right, although I'll ultimately choose to follow whatever model is agreed upon by consensus.

 

[JUDO]

Pix, try 1

(Damn attach didn't work, I'll try again). Grrrr...

 

[JUDO]

Pix, try2

Attaching image of Shakti, the Nurturer (stone statue) and very typical rendering of her.

 

[JUDO]

More pix

Typical rendering of Shakti as the Nurturer (as opposed the sexual goddess, sorry haven't found one of those yet - Hmm...maybe I need to go to some Tantric Sex sites).

 

[JUDO]

Shiva pic

Attachment is another typical rendering of Shiva. He's often rendering doing his "destruction of the Earth" dance. And he usually has four arms.

 

[JUDO]

Shiva statue

I think this picture of a life-size statue in Mumbai might be a decent design for what the back of the talisman might look like. At least it's in stone. Plus it's round.

That's all I have for now. When I get back in town on Monday, I will look around for a better depiction of Shakti. I think the Shiva pic attached below should suffice for our purposes, OK?

 

[KillerMuffin]

I nominate Judo as General Chain Story. I think she should be the one to keep this thing on track. She did a great job last year, by the way, of wrangling writers, and she's doing a good job this year.

That said, if she chooses to be so and is subsequently elected, I believe she should be the one to start any threads regarding the chain.

Further, the object's history makes no difference to me as I can work with whatever all ya'll come up with. Up to and including changing what and when I write.

Three, shut up Todd. You're doing perfectly find as you are. Quit putting yourself down.

Four. Point taken RS. I'm taking this too seriously. To me writing is a serious endeavour, most people are in it for fun. I still think you're confusing voice and tone, but since you didn't elaborate I can't be sure. I don't think everyone needs the same tone, but I think the tone should have some sort reason to it. You don't follow Patsy Cline with Guns'n Roses.

 

[mlyn]

I won't be writing, but

I have really enjoyed the posts here. I love to see people discussing something intelligently and rationally. Good luck to everyone!

I am still recovering from realizing the survivor thing had nothing to do with the SHOW!!!!!

This looks to be very exciting!

 

[Whispersecret]

So the entire purpose of the talisman is to cure infertility? Just how widespread WAS infertility back then? I'd think infant mortality would have been a bigger worry, but I'm no historian. Fertility back then also had to do with the harvest, which was more important, didn't it?

Because I have not committed to this endeavor completely, feel free to disregard my opinions. However, I think that the difficult task of becoming sexually enlightened *as described should bring a greater, more fulfilling reward than the ability to conceive a child.

For the record...

Voice = the author's unique style. Everything that makes a Nora Roberts book recognizable as Nora Roberts's work, even if her name isn't on the cover. I'm not making this stuff up. Editors look for fresh voices.

Tone = the feeling you get when you read the story, something like an aura for the story.

*The plausibility of someone being able to willfrully control his/her sexual organs is difficult for me to accept. The word enlightened suggests to me something to do with a state of mind, not a physical ability. When Laurel suggested sexual enlightenment, I was imagining someone who is accepting of many sexual practices, even those taboo for their time. Someone who welcomes new sexual experiences as an avenue of learning.

But if everyone else is okay with this, that's fine. Majority rules.

 

[JUDO]

Last Post til Monday

WS -

I, of course, made up the original use of the talisman. The balance of its power and the bearer's power makes for interesting writing because the talisman can either work with you or against you, depending on what your character learns.

I thought that might be interesting for the writers to play with. If the power is interesting, who cares what it was originally used for? Skip it. Maybe none of the archeological research ever finds out.

But the controlling the sexual body and sexual organs is one of the prime directives of hathayoga. They've been doing it for a long time.

Look it up.


- Judo

 

[Alex De Kok]

Whispersecret said

The plausibility of someone being able to willfully control his/her sexual organs is difficult for me to accept. The word enlightened suggests to me something to do with a state of mind, not a physical ability. When Laurel suggested sexual enlightenment, I was imagining someone who is accepting of many sexual practices, even those taboo for their time. Someone who welcomes new sexual experiences as an avenue of learning.

This is my feeling too. I had thought my character, from being naiive, repressed even, before she comes in contact with the medallion, would undergo a major re-evaluation of her own sexuality, but a re-evaluation leading to acceptance and a willingness to explore new avenues.

Judo however does make a valid point about Hathayoga, which leads my devious mind down yet another avenue...

I am enjoying this!

Alex

 

[RisiaSkye]

Dammit. For the last time: I know what tone and voice are. We're going to be skipping huge blocks of time; over that time, many things can and will change. Bastard Out of Carolina, a book that I'm developing a large part of my dissertation around and so am intensely familiar with, covers only 12 years. By and large, it's a serious and sometimes even melodramatic book. There are, however, two standout chapters which advance the narrative, but relate incredibly funny and lighthearted segments of some sub-plots.

Taken individually, these chapters are tonally at odds with the majority of the book. Yet, in context, they work to advance the tale, and they break up the emotional tension of the developing abuse storyline. Such variation is possible, and sometimes even necessary. The framing narrative of the talisman and how it gets from one place and one person to another place and person allows the possibility of each author setting up and explaining tonal variations.

By the way, hubby and I have been studying and practicing Tantric sex for 3 years. Sexual control is very much a possibility, and sexual enlightenment, as I said before, can and does take different forms for different people. The only real universals to it, it seems, are self-restraint, mutuality, a feeling of spiritual connection, and honesty.

Whisper: You know I admire your work, and to my understanding, our previous interactions have always been positive. So, if I'm getting tiresome, I apologize. My biggest pet peeve in life is being patronized, particularly when I don't believe that I've earned it. And, I've felt patronized on more than one occasion recently, and about things that I know every bit as much about as others here. I'm a polytheistic Tantric sex student who teaches university-level writing and writes in multiple genres as the bulk of my profession duties. I'm also a second-year Survivor, second-time Chain Story writer, and a long-term contributor to the content of this site. If I am not qualified to voice a dissenting opinion in this discussion, I cannot imagine the conversation which I am qualified to join.

 

[karmadog]

I would like to point out that there are two sides to this medallion. Opposite deities. I believe that this gives an enormous amount of wiggle room for the author's stories. I know that my idea involves the side of the medallion that seems to be ignored by so many.

On another topic, I don't really think that what has been discussed so far is really a "chain story". What we really seem to be discussing is a group story that is thematically linked. We won't be taking a character that someone else started and deciding what happens next. Instead, we will be taking and object that has been involved in other stories and deciding how it will affect our own characters.

If my take on this is wrong, let me know.

 

[Couture]

Whew, this is getting really complicated. Dietitic medallion of two sides that goes through time and works toward a purpose of unknown ends. My poor karma and brain cannot take much more.

I mean, hey, I've got control issues just as much as the next writer, but this is getting out of hand. Or maybe I just feel overwhelmed after reading everything.

Come one. I know no one wants to put their baby up for adoption, but when you do it, you've gotta let it go.

(Anyway, I feel like the story should be about a playful spirit that possesses people's privates.)

I'm kidding. I want to play too, just shout out when you think you guys are ready and have the rules worked out to a reasonable number.

 

[jon.hayworth]

I would like to second KM's proposal that JUDO takes on the role of "General Chain Story".

On a me level - I am worried about going first - I have never participated in a chain story - yes a virgin again! So I would appreciate someone anyone acting as my mentor / editor. The responsibility is awsome, Chapter One is always the most important and I feel that I will need help to get my contribution right.

Unless KM would like to take the Romans and I'll sink into safety in Elizabethan England. Marlowe, John Dee, Shakespeare and Raleigh with his Virginian tobacco.

jon

 

[mlyn]

I changed my mind, if I can

I'd like to participate in the chain story, if there is room.

 

[jon.hayworth]

HI Mlyn,

JUDO The General is away till monday - but no one said we were closing the list. So I'll say welcome in. Better put a bid in for your time frame.

jon

 

[KillerMuffin]

Deal Jon! No reneging. I get Hadrian and you get Elizabeth.

Don't worry guys, we'll get it all worked out and it'll get a lot smoother.

 

[jon.hayworth]

DEAL - NO RENENGING!!!

Thanks KM,

Your a real pal, like I said I could not take the responsibility for leading off.

jon

 

[GoddessKaren]

I, too, agree with KM that JUDO should be "General Chain Story."



karen