Cowboy/Indian story set out in the American Wild West?

[alrem]

Well, I probably owe you an apology, as well, for flying off the handle a little prematurely. I just get so damn frustrated sometimes, that's all. Truce?

Unfortunately, most of the world, and indeed, most of this country, gets their ideas about native americans from movies and television, and that vision of an entire race of people is so skewed from reality.

We're from many different Nations/tribes - we have differing ideas on spirituality, we speak different languages, but somehow in Hollywood's version of "Indians" we all end up looking the same, speaking broken english, being classified as the "noble savage," and all the men want nothing more in their lives than to have sex with a white woman. To be honest, sometimes it's just plain funny to me, but then at other times, I get very frustrated, because it seems that most people, world wide, accept the romanticized, exaggerated, and just plain false version, without even trying to learn the truth, or maybe even get to know us. We're people, just like everyone else, but it seems that many think we don't even exist anymore.

I'm sorry - rant over.

I'm glad that you accepted my apology and you don't need to apologize too. You know why? Because I understand every thing you said. Infact you are more lucky that people see it as a history already. Not like to the third world countries where I was now. Were continually discriminated among other countries even in our own land. But this is not the right place for it.
Hehe
This is Literotica and I'm looking to the detail of Captain's story. May it be a fiction or a fact.

 

[Lee Chambers]

- How can I make a story like this work out? What ingredients do I need for a Wild West erotic tale?

- Should the shootout/action sequences, if any, be vital to the storyline, or irrelevent?

- Should there be a nemesis to the main *good* character?

- Would the language of the characters be overtly different than, say, the words spoken by WWII era Americans *I have them scouted out pretty well* ?

I don't even know if I would go with this idea, but I'm thinking a little variety would be good, and I really have wanted to do a period piece on Lit for quite some time now. A few cowboy flicks were on Showtime Greats tonight that I caught, so that's why I'm currently on this track...

Capt

I've been kicking around a few different ideas and concepts for sometime on a story based in the wild west. It was set in something of an alternate reality, non-erotic, and more romantic than realistic.

The entire story concept revolved around one man. He's supposed to be the best gunman in the west. The stories involve his adventures in fighting agaisnt the Barons, men who basically ruled various western territories like fuedal lords and squeezed every last dime out of them. This whole series was supposed to have a Zorro/Robin Hood kind of quality to it. It certainly wasn't designed to be realistic in the sense of what the historical west was like (thus the idea of setting it in an alternate world).

Just my ideas, maybe they'll give you some ideas of your own.

 

[TheCaptain]

I've been kicking around a few different ideas and concepts for sometime on a story based in the wild west. It was set in something of an alternate reality, non-erotic, and more romantic than realistic.

The entire story concept revolved around one man. He's supposed to be the best gunman in the west. The stories involve his adventures in fighting agaisnt the Barons, men who basically ruled various western territories like fuedal lords and squeezed every last dime out of them. This whole series was supposed to have a Zorro/Robin Hood kind of quality to it. It certainly wasn't designed to be realistic in the sense of what the historical west was like (thus the idea of setting it in an alternate world).

Just my ideas, maybe they'll give you some ideas of your own.

I really like the idea, Lee - almost like Shoguns meets the Old West

Could be interesting to read about... you should really think about continuing this idea! I for one certainly think it's worthy of a read, even if it isn't erotica... adventure tales are always a good page-turner if spliced nicely, at least in my own opinion

By the way, folks, I want to make this a good one but do not think I will be capable of pleasing ALL the history buffs out there with my 'perfect' knowledge of the facts of the west; I'm selfteaching myself as I go along - with the help from a few kind lit-ers of course - and I hope no-one out there's expecting ABSOLUTE historical-erotic brilliance and harmony.

Current draft title of the story is - Six-Shooters.

Capt

 

[emap]

I am expecting perfect historical accuracy, otherwise I shall be forced to point my finger in your general direction and spout nonsensical nonsense.

Ok, seriously, doesn't have to be all that accurate, just make everyone a normal human being trying to do their own part to make their life better and you have exactly right, just keep in mind a six shooter was the end all be all of most peoples protection, including a large portion of the natives, they got them off the really stupid army.

 

[TheCaptain]

I am expecting perfect historical accuracy, otherwise I shall be forced to point my finger in your general direction and spout nonsensical nonsense.

Ok, seriously, doesn't have to be all that accurate, just make everyone a normal human being trying to do their own part to make their life better and you have exactly right, just keep in mind a six shooter was the end all be all of most peoples protection, including a large portion of the natives, they got them off the really stupid army.

rofl ohhh? <cry>

so, six-shooters were pretty prolific back in them days, eh? goodness

at the moment, I'm tryin to understand what fighting style/weaponry was available at what time... the story is probably going to span from the early 1860s to 80s, and will cover at least two generations of main, fightin-age characters.

Capt

 

[Colleen Thomas]

rofl ohhh? <cry>

so, six-shooters were pretty prolific back in them days, eh? goodness

at the moment, I'm tryin to understand what fighting style/weaponry was available at what time... the story is probably going to span from the early 1860s to 80s, and will cover at least two generations of main, fightin-age characters.

Capt

In general, your 1860's model rifles will be single shot hawken muzzle loaders in 30 or 50 calibere. Single shot breeh loading Sharps .50 or Spencer 56s. Any number of muzzle loading muskets patterned on the British Brown Bess.

Shotguns will be single or bouble barrel, generally a side by side configuration rather than over & under. Most common guage will be 12, with a few tens. You might have a 16 or 20, if your characters have money and are recent arrivals from contenintal europe.

Your pistols will be cap & ball modles. that is, you have to remove the cylinder, pour powder into each chamber, tamp in a ball. coat the outside with wax and return the cylinder to the fram. After that, you will need to put aprecussion cap on each nipple. Reloading is a slow process, so fighting men generally carried 2, 3 or even more on their person or mount. all pistols will be single action, that is to say you can't just pull the trigger to fire, you have to cock the hammer back. Generally all have a 2 position hammer, half cock and full. Yourmost common will be colt army and colt navy revolvers.


By the 1880's you'll have more rifle options avilable, Like the wonchester 44.-40 and the Henry .44. these are 15 shot saddle rifles, with a lever action. .44 is the most common calibre beacuse the .44 rifle and .44 pistol ammunition can both be used in the rifle in a pinch. The sharps .50 Buffalo rifle will still be common.

Shotguns don't change much at all, with the exception of the intoduction of Well's Fargo express guns. basically shotguns with extremely cut down barrels and stocks used by shotgun riders on stages and well fargo wagons.

You will have a wider range of pistols, most using brass cartridges. Single and double action modles are common. Your classic six gun is the colt .44, but other calibers were also common .45 and .36 being widly popular.

Derringers are common too. These are single or double shot hold out pistols, generally small enough for a man to conceal in the watch pocket of a vest.

Knives range from the arkansaws toothpick, to the bowie knife, also a wide range of other knives and machettes, with bayonets from the civil war being prevelant.

Mexican Vaqueros were highly proficient with the black snake or bull whip. In San francisco, there was a heavy influx of chinese, so many oriental weapons were around.

Hand to hand fighting was common. Usually simple brawlers skill, but there were men proficent in cornish style wrestling and Mrquis of Queensbury boxing. Your most common holds were submission holds and arm bars. throws were the flying mare and shoulder.

Hope this helps

 

[emap]

I checked, in 1860 the Henry Repeating Rifle first makes an appearance, so most everyone was using black powder rifles and pistols, the civil war starts in 1861, at first most everyone used black powder rifles besides officers who got a revolver and the well to do who owned a Henry.

In case you don't know, the Henry Repeating Rifle turned into the Winchester shortly after starting, Henry and Winchester merged in 1866, metallic cartridges were not widely introduced until 1863-1864. Go here for all of the dates on firearms that I quoted and more besides.

Most everyone carried a knife besides carrying a rifle and pistol, natives still mostly used bow and arrow until the Henry and Winchester rifles were made available to them, most coming from gifts or trade with the Army, though quite a few were taken as capture in wins against the army.

 

[TheCaptain]

Okay, thanks people about the gun types and fighting styles, all this has been a GREAT help for me!

Within the next day or so I should be finished the first chapter of the story, and then I would probably like to post it over in the 'Story Feedback' section so I can get your thoughts, I guess... just on the accuracy on the times and the way certain characters might have acted under such circumstances, also I guess I'm looking for suggestions and changes that could be made to make it all better; I'm still a little bit sheepish about all this, although I am trying the best I can - with the whole foreigner issue trying to do a history piece on another culture's past

I will set up a link to that thread and encourage y'all to go have a look-see, but yes, in about a day or two I will be ready. Still looking at posting all of this in one big submission... though it's gonna be PRETTY darn story-driven - hopefully not TOO much so!

Capt

 

[pintip2]

Yes, to a lesser extent I assumed the same thing... but the more I look back into researching the ACTUAL past, the more I realise just how slanted white folk were towards demonizing the native americans , at least, in the earlier days...

It's a sad tale, but the same thing happened here to a lesser extent with our Aboriginal natives... the British colonists came into bitter confict with the local inhabitants of many parts of Australia over prized real estate early on in our history, though a great deal of the land indigenous Aussies coulld live on, early poineers found too difficult, so the confict was not so bloody and widespread.

What I'm looking at doing is MUCH like a Wilbur Smith type tale, though of course set in the American West instead of on the African continent where most of his stories are based. I'm looking for family conflicts building up over generations, blood feuds, violence, misdeeds, betrayals and murders. I'm looking for roughness and authenticity.

And I'm looking for smut, as much of it and as descriptive as I can make it without detracting from the storyline. If I can work in locations, accurate characteristics, and proper descriptions of the actions of certain types of folks in this timeframe, then all the better.

Have gotten halfway down page2 in Word of the story at the moment... working on the defining moment in one of the main character's lives - a traumatic time, when a wrong is done to him that he is determined to see right, no matter what

Capt

Say what you will Captain, but in WWll our asses were saved many times by our Native American brothers: The Comanche Talkers in ETO ( EUROPE) and the Naviho Talkers in PTO (pacific). In fact, Sir, If you make a friend of an American Indian you have a friend for life. Good brave and courageous are all my friends in the Cheerokee Nations of South Carolina. A wonderful friend of mine ----a Pawnee lady is coming to see me next month...can't wait to see her lovely face.

PS To cloudy: I apologize for my followman here or around the world for any insult you may have suffered at thier hands.

However I should be glad to read The Captain's story when it comes out.

pintip

 

[pintip2]

Maybe some idea here for you.......

1 Cowboy rides into Cheiann, Wy.
2 Walks into a saloon where a cattle ranch owner is.....
3 Badman attemps to shoot ranch owner in back....big "boss" want his spread...
4 Shoots six-shooter out of badmans hand....
5 Dares anyone else to draw....
6 Conversation follows between rancher and cowhand.....
7 Rancher is so grateful he gives cowboy a job.....
8 Cowboy meets ranchers daughter---18 or so.....

You take it from there-----I am not a writer nor the son of a writer-----
This is where you shine my man.

Feel free to use this or not, whichever!!

 

[pintip2]

One old rifle too was....44 Cal.

In general, your 1860's model rifles will be single shot hawken muzzle loaders in 30 or 50 calibere. Single shot breeh loading Sharps .50 or Spencer 56s. Any number of muzzle loading muskets patterned on the British Brown Bess.

Shotguns will be single or bouble barrel, generally a side by side configuration rather than over & under. Most common guage will be 12, with a few tens. You might have a 16 or 20, if your characters have money and are recent arrivals from contenintal europe.

Your pistols will be cap & ball modles. that is, you have to remove the cylinder, pour powder into each chamber, tamp in a ball. coat the outside with wax and return the cylinder to the fram. After that, you will need to put aprecussion cap on each nipple. Reloading is a slow process, so fighting men generally carried 2, 3 or even more on their person or mount. all pistols will be single action, that is to say you can't just pull the trigger to fire, you have to cock the hammer back. Generally all have a 2 position hammer, half cock and full. Yourmost common will be colt army and colt navy revolvers.


By the 1880's you'll have more rifle options avilable, Like the wonchester 44.-40 and the Henry .44. these are 15 shot saddle rifles, with a lever action. .44 is the most common calibre beacuse the .44 rifle and .44 pistol ammunition can both be used in the rifle in a pinch. The sharps .50 Buffalo rifle will still be common.

Shotguns don't change much at all, with the exception of the intoduction of Well's Fargo express guns. basically shotguns with extremely cut down barrels and stocks used by shotgun riders on stages and well fargo wagons.

You will have a wider range of pistols, most using brass cartridges. Single and double action modles are common. Your classic six gun is the colt .44, but other calibers were also common .45 and .36 being widly popular.

Derringers are common too. These are single or double shot hold out pistols, generally small enough for a man to conceal in the watch pocket of a vest.

Knives range from the arkansaws toothpick, to the bowie knife, also a wide range of other knives and machettes, with bayonets from the civil war being prevelant.

Mexican Vaqueros were highly proficient with the black snake or bull whip. In San francisco, there was a heavy influx of chinese, so many oriental weapons were around.

Hand to hand fighting was common. Usually simple brawlers skill, but there were men proficent in cornish style wrestling and Mrquis of Queensbury boxing. Your most common holds were submission holds and arm bars. throws were the flying mare and shoulder.

Hope this helps [/QUOTE

I see you have already covered the .44 Caliber rifle. I at one time had one of these rifles. One could fire either the .44 bullet in it or a 410 shotgun shell although the shotgun shell was a bit long for the .44 chamber.

 

[Texguy84]

Yourmost common will be colt army and colt navy revolvers.

Ah yes, fun historical trivia: The Colt Navy revolver was the first revolver used by the Texas Rangers (they got them from the Texas Navy, which was chronicaly short of money and support from the Texas government)

Also, for the cartridge revolvers, depending on the particular model your character is using, they might load in a variety of ways. I'm not sure when the classic "flip-out" style revolver you see in action movies nowadays came about, but back in the old days, most revolvers loaded through a loading gate on the side of the pistol (If you've ever seen The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly, Clint Eastwood's revolver loads this way), and some folded open, like a double-barreled shotgun would, revealing the back of the chamber wheel. (I seem to recall that cavalry troopers liked these cause you could hold the gun by the barrel along with the reins of the horse, while loading with your other hand)

 

[TheCaptain]

Thanks guys - to pintip2 about the Native Americans in WWII (yes I saw Windtalkers! ) and to Texguy about the revolvers, espec the folding-open revolver which is an interestin piece of info, as the main good char will probably be cavalry-orientated.

The ideas that you've gone into are good, pintip2, but I have my own ideas too mate, and I think they're a bit different , thou I might work in the rancher's daughter concept, that's a cliche but maybe, if done a little original-like, a good one

Cyaz folks, back to uni for the first day of the fourth term

Capt

 

[Texguy84]

thou I might work in the rancher's daughter concept, that's a cliche but maybe, if done a little original-like, a good one

Capt

Failing that, you can allways have a guy dealing with the banker's sultry trophy-wife, who has debts she needs to pay, and who just might know where her husband keeps the vault combination hidden (could be fun for a bank-robber story)

 

[TheCaptain]

Failing that, you can allways have a guy dealing with the banker's sultry trophy-wife, who has debts she needs to pay, and who just might know where her husband keeps the vault combination hidden (could be fun for a bank-robber story)

that could be a good spin on things, and it's able to be worked into an adventurish erotic story mould, which is good

btw found a book of L'Amour's at the uni library called Crossfire Trail... it's pretty dang good, about halfway thru it and I've only had the thing for about half a day

thanks for the help folks, will letyaz know how I'm goin as things progress . Cheers.

Capt

 

[pintip2]

Thanks Captain........

You do great stories and I'm convinced this new one will be exceptional.

 

[JarlsAxe]

Look again oh guru

Oh my, one must wonder where the schools are getting their books, prostitution was never legal in the US, it was ignored in many towns for much of the time. Also keep in mind, women weren't allowed to own property, the rowdy madam you see in the movies didn't really exist, she was either married or worked for a man. A woman rarely got a job, why women in the movies are always schoolteachers, proper church going ladies who sat at home, worked the store with their husband or were whores. It was a very rare woman who got a job doing something else, Calamity Jane being the best known.

Toss into that, racism running rampant, along with anti irish, anti jewish and anti any religion not protestant. Men either had a farm, had a store, had a bar, rode herd for some ranch or other, worked as sheriff/deputy, or were the town drunk.

Basically meant that the wild west was about as bad as the worst bad section of town you can think, or hear about, toss in a few worse things, and doing things to a woman is legal, sometimes shy rape, alot of the time rape is legal unless she was married, then she is husbands property and you damaged his property.

Prostitution is governed on a state and county level, not federal, the is no federal law against it in the USA ( Duh....it's still legal in some counties now, in 2005)

 

[TheCaptain]

Prostitution is governed on a state and county level, not federal, the is no federal law against it in the USA ( Duh....it's still legal in some counties now, in 2005)

but was that the case in the 1860s, 70s and 80s? I do not know as I am still learning about that period of American history... I'd be interested, if somebody out there in Lit-land could provide a link to a legit site with information on prostitution laws during the Wild West era.

Capt

 

[emap]

I found THIS , rather early on in the search for prostitution. Goes against what I said to a certain degree, except on the East coast finding a brothel was hard in the 1800's, it was fully criminalized in the early 1900's.

To really get to know the legality of prostitution back then you would have to do a major search, or you could if you wanted to toss in that the town was thinking of banning prostitutes, there were towns in the wild west that had none, well not a whorehouse anyway because it wasn't legal there, still had prostitutes, just working out of the bar or a ranch just out of town so was ignored, one of those out of sight out of mind things.

 

[TheCaptain]

I found THIS , rather early on in the search for prostitution. Goes against what I said to a certain degree, except on the East coast finding a brothel was hard in the 1800's, it was fully criminalized in the early 1900's.

To really get to know the legality of prostitution back then you would have to do a major search, or you could if you wanted to toss in that the town was thinking of banning prostitutes, there were towns in the wild west that had none, well not a whorehouse anyway because it wasn't legal there, still had prostitutes, just working out of the bar or a ranch just out of town so was ignored, one of those out of sight out of mind things.

thanks for the info, emap... love wikipedia, its a real good site for brief yet important information. Cheers

Capt

 

[JarlsAxe]

Legalities

At this time prostitution is legal in two states, Nevda, and Rhode Island

When exatly each state passed laws ruling it ilegal varies.

I believe it was the womens rights movement that encouraged these laws to be passed in alot of states, hard to track down, to be sure.

 

[snooper]

thanks for the info, emap... love wikipedia, its a real good site for brief yet important information. Cheers

Capt

BEWARE. Wikipedia is written by absolutely anyone (even I have contributed). The accuracy of some of the entries is very doubtful.

 

[Texguy84]

BEWARE. Wikipedia is written by absolutely anyone (even I have contributed). The accuracy of some of the entries is very doubtful.

Yeah, as I've told my friends in the past "Wikipedia is a resource, not a source" when it comes to finding information for anything important. That said, since anyone can update it, and since all changes are tracked, most of the articles are "pretty" accurate.

 

[TheCaptain]

BEWARE. Wikipedia is written by absolutely anyone (even I have contributed). The accuracy of some of the entries is very doubtful.

Already aware, thanks

Nothing really is my be-all, end all referance point on the net. I like to double-check and triple-check sources of information online if possible, from as 'reliable' sources as possible. Wikipedia definitely isn't my one-stop spot for information... I know just how lax they are, even I've contributed on a couple of issues!

BTW to people that are interested, I think this idea I cannot go foward with. I'm doing a few more 'standardized' smut stories here and there, with a lot less effort involved, around a whole hell of a lot of other things I'm having to juggle up of late. But thanks sincerely to everyone who tried to help out with this project.

I'm truly disappointed that I couldn't make this work out, but I do not have the time nor quite the ability to make this story work the way I would want it to. Again, thanks so much to everyone for kind words of support and assistance. Cheers,

Capt

 

[Atikaya]

This is all BS punjabis never set foot in America before the 1900s and even if they did it would have been some rich duffer.