CROSSFIRE!...an SRP debate round table

[Lovelynice]

Quote from Torn_Stockings
((My post wasn't a a personal call for war, lovelynice,))
Unquote

...I'm not really hitting you either, SLAP!

Sorry, but since you persist...then it's obviously not true.


so.....


...................stop it, stop it, you naughty person you!

 

[2ndSight]

It takes two to tango, as they say.

I'm not surprised at Lovelynice's reaction there, since Torn_Stockings (while always claiming nothing personal) has continued to dissect her every comment, taking it for the literal wording, claiming this as evidence of ignorance or a bad attitude on Lovelynice's part, and thereby making it personal.

Sorry, Torn_Stockings, but actions speak a lot louder than words in my book, and you have been making it personal. Perhaps this was your original goal; fishing for an argument with somebody.

Besides that, what's wrong with having confidence in one's opinions? It's certainly a lot healthier than trying to pick at other people's beliefs simply for an ego trip.

As to the roleplay-rape business; as Lovelynice pointed out, confusion reigns in the real world, and it's a terrible thing of course, but at least online in an RPG nobody is physically hurt, and people can communicate their beliefs more openly without fear of real danger.

 

[ariosto]

Remember please this is a DEBATE forum!
If things start getting personal I'll ask one of the Mods to scrub it.

Calm down everybody.

 

[prometheus 2]

And I'll stop reading it. Without an audience all of your efforts to express yourself go unnoticed like tumbleweeds in the dry prairie wind. With a little respect for others maybe we could bring about some growth and turn this dry desert scene into a lush oasis of creativity.

 

[Torn_stockings]

O.K., O.K. , dammit!

Eeeep!

*rubs my arse where I was slapped*

OooOo, I kind of like this rough play! Guess I have been naughty...Truce? Or pounce?

 

[Annabelllee2003]

Say, How 'bout them Nicks?

 

[Torn_stockings]

Moving right along

Seems I was way overly defensive, and all of the side-stepping could have been avoided if I wasn't so nitpicky at trying to defend myself.

How about a new topic for your debate forum, ariosto? One that presents a lively and perhaps friendlier discussion?

An idea:

Are women more prone to getting into conflict with other women or with men?

If so, why? If not, why? I have my opinion on this, but will hold back until I see whether or not this thread catches on.

I am doing this in the spirit of debate, not to fish for arguments. If my tone in this post suggests otherwise, someone tell me- I really am still learning here!

~ta!

 

[ImpWizard]

Somebody seems a lot quieter and softer.

I think the real problem with online communication is the lack of visible body-language, tone of voice, even smell.

That's why people use emotes, and such things are poor substitutes. It's very hard to get the nuances right in how you type something. Such lack of communication leads to arguments, very very easily.

It's not hard to say the wrong thing while trying to say something else, and get somebody else offended.

I wonder how many of us get dragged into an argument simply because of a typing error?

Are men or women more prone to this problem?

Does intuition work online?

 

[Annabelllee2003]

Re: Moving right along

Seems I was way overly defensive, and all of the side-stepping could have been avoided if I wasn't so nitpicky at trying to defend myself.

How about a new topic for your debate forum, ariosto? One that presents a lively and perhaps friendlier discussion?

An idea:

Are women more prone to getting into conflict with other women or with men?

If so, why? If not, why? I have my opinion on this, but will hold back until I see whether or not this thread catches on.

I am doing this in the spirit of debate, not to fish for arguments. If my tone in this post suggests otherwise, someone tell me- I really am still learning here!

~ta!

Ah, a chance for me to have another opinion...(I got a million of 'em - acha cha cha)

I don't know the frequency of argument between men and women. I can only speak from experience. The conflicts that I have had in the past seem to be equally split between the sexes. Unless you count the ones with my mother and step-mother. Then it's a resounding 'WOMEN'!

But there is one area that defies my understanding.

Why oh why when there is a love triangle, do so many woman go after the other woman and not the perpetrator of the infidelity? I've seen many a fight in my time of just this...

I don't like physical violence personally, but why wouldn't the scorned go after the straying man (or woman) with her vengence? Isn't it possible that the other woman was just as duped? But in the end, the perpetrator is the guilty party.

 

[Annabelllee2003]

Somebody seems a lot quieter and softer.

I think the real problem with online communication is the lack of visible body-language, tone of voice, even smell.

That's why people use emotes, and such things are poor substitutes. It's very hard to get the nuances right in how you type something. Such lack of communication leads to arguments, very very easily.

It's not hard to say the wrong thing while trying to say something else, and get somebody else offended.

I wonder how many of us get dragged into an argument simply because of a typing error?

Are men or women more prone to this problem?

Does intuition work online?

I do agree with this... having just had this happen 4 times in the last 2 days. It seems my smart assed, witty comments (so funny to me) are rather taken quite literally or in just the worst possible way!

Gotta watch that I say, er, type!...

 

[SexyChele]

Re: Re: Moving right along

But there is one area that defies my understanding.

Why oh why when there is a love triangle, do so many woman go after the other woman and not the perpetrator of the infidelity? I've seen many a fight in my time of just this...

I don't like physical violence personally, but why wouldn't the scorned go after the straying man (or woman) with her vengence? Isn't it possible that the other woman was just as duped? But in the end, the perpetrator is the guilty party.

Having unwittingly been involved in this type of situation a number of times - heck, I just can't seem to learn! - I've developed a theory about this very thing. For purposes here, I'm speaking of a triangle involving two women and a straying man. I think the woman being "cheated on" knows deep down that it is the man who is more than likely to blame. However, by admitting this outright, it is saying that she has been a very bad judge of character. It reflects badly on her. Also, there is the idea that by admitting that it was the man who strayed from the relationship, and not tempted by some evil vixen, she might have to face that there is something lacking in either herself or the relationship. This is especially true if the man in question is her husband. I mean, she stood up in front of family and friends and declared her love and loyalty to this man, how can she now admit that maybe she made an error?

Also, the "other" woman is some one she normally does not know. At least know well. It is far easier to take out issues on people we don't know, blame them, hate them, call them names. If we have to sleep next to the person, wake up with them every day, raise children with them, it is harder to have those disagreements. Hell, how many husbands and wives can't even talk about their fantasies to each other? And those are fun! How much more difficult to face realities in a relationship that are far more serious?

Now, this is just a little theory that I've conjured up based on my own experiences. I'd be interested to hear what others have to say.

As far as the conflict question goes, I'm not sure what is being asked. Is it that women are more likely to fight with other women in real life? Or with men? Or this is this strictly online? What is meant by "conflict"? Disagreements? Fights? Misunderstandings? I'd like to answer, but I'm a bit confused. But then, that's my normal state of being!

 

[prometheus 2]

I was starting to feel defensive being a man and wanting to thus defend my fellow men by asking the question Why is the man the man considered the prepetrator in a love triangle, m-f-f? It take two to tango and three to tangle right? Then I settled down a bit before typing realizing that each scenario is different and should be considered differently, if one is to access blame. or do we need to blame? To examine the causes and processes that led to the triangle and the resulting pain and sense of loss. I suppose in order to learn so that one can keep it from reoccuring though sometimes I think the only thing we learn by our mistakes is that we don't learn by our mistakes. So I tend not to look to blame for answers.

 

[SexyChele]

I was starting to feel defensive being a man and wanting to thus defend my fellow men by asking the question Why is the man the man considered the prepetrator in a love triangle, m-f-f? It take two to tango and three to tangle right? Then I settled down a bit before typing realizing that each scenario is different and should be considered differently, if one is to access blame. or do we need to blame? To examine the causes and processes that led to the triangle and the resulting pain and sense of loss. I suppose in order to learn so that one can keep it from reoccuring though sometimes I think the only thing we learn by our mistakes is that we don't learn by our mistakes. So I tend not to look to blame for answers.

I don't mean to "blame men" or turn this into "man bashing". However, in my experience only, the straying man never told me there was another woman in his life. I highly respect the institution of marriage, and if there is some one who considers herself exclusive, I will not try to intrude on the relationship. However, some men are very clever and very good at disguising their relationships.

There are times when another woman realizes a man is married or involved and still becomes involved with him. Then they are both to be held accountable. Yet, in a lot of cases, men go searching and never let on their marital status. I remember I met a man once from the internet and I asked him specifically if he was married, as it was not easy to determine that online. He stated he was separated. That's not good enough for me - things aren't "legal" yet. We had a drink, then left. The next day he sent me an email stating that because I had been so honest with him, he felt bad and needed to tell me that he was, in fact, married.

I'm sure this happens with both men and women, but my experience has been with men. And especially at my age, it is the very first question asked before anything else. Most men I meet are typically going through "mid-life crisis" and looking for a little excitement. It's hard to keep them honest sometimes, believe me! And that is probably why I rarely believe anything a man tells me online anymore. (And that's beginning to seep over into real life as well) People lie, it's a fact. What is often not considered is that the person who is the supposed "other woman" is often the one who is hurt the most. The couple usually stay togther - they may hate each other and not forgive until the day they die, but they won't split up. The "other woman" is left to pick up the pieces and try to move forward. And when the next man enters her life, she must deal with his anger that she cannot trust him.

No, afternooner, not "man bashing". Just being truthful, as the truth is perceived by me.

 

[Torn_stockings]

Farewell.

Sorry, everyone, but after having my apology thrown back in my face and more bashing of me going on, I have decided to call it quits here. One bad apple spoiled the bunch I'm afraid, and I am not here to fight, argue, be trashed or accused.

I admitted that I was over defensive, and said sorry for coming across as mean. But the name calling and accusations still flew at me and then I was told to drop it.

So here I am, dropping it. Sorry I never got the chance to interact more with those of you who were actually adults.

I will be checking my pm box if anyone wants a verbatim copy of the backlash I recieved when I tried to apologise to LovelyNice. Other than that, I'm not posting again for a long time.

 

[ariosto]

Once again I ask if we should continue this thread. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Torn Stockings, please return. You have presented another topic which has generated some good comments and nothing of a personal nature has interferred.

 

[prometheus 2]

Yes torn stockings please stay your opinoin is important i may not agree with it but it's still valid and arprediatd by those who respect it.

yes Chele, your point is well taken.

it's unforunate that most of the time men are the perpetrators that of course is because of the way our society is set up, double standard still in place. in another society free from that stigmatism one might see exactly the opposite. Which of course doesn't excuse our behavior. and its hard I'm sure not to be wary but first, before we think of ourselves as men or as women we could start with just being human.

 

[Thor's Hammer]

Chiming in...since I thought this venue would be fun and generate some good dialogue. Reasonable people can disagree, without being disagreeable....I would hope that all - young and old - would remember that precept....

Nice people should not get involved in the energy-wasting on-line bickering. I can preach because, as they say, "been there, done that."

 

[Lay Z Butterfly]

Adding my Two Cents

I believe Thor's Hammer put it eloquently: Reasonable people can disagree, without being disagreeable....

There is a big difference between facts and opinions. A fact can be proven, whereas an opinion is that of the holder of it. Respecting all opinions is important in our society. Daring to be different, going out on a limb instead of following the pack is the difference between a leader and a mere follower.
Being attacked by anyone shows bad form anyway!

My opinion: You give______ to Get ________. (the motto in my classroom hangs proudly). ** Fill in any word and it makes sense!

 

[Snork Maiden]

The sentiment behind this thread is a great idea, and treated with the correct respect has the potential to be a great place for people to voice their opinions.

The most important thing for everyone to realise is that if you are going to debate sensitive issues then you are always going to upset one or more people. That is going to occur without any premeditated intent it is just a fact of the objectivity behind the persons opinion.

If people feel they are going to be offended then they shouldn't bring the debate down to a personal level. Anyone who has debated will know that when that occurs the debate has finished.

If someone says or writes something that you disagree with, always reply and voice your objections, but do so in a constructive way, turn the argument around never fuel the negativity but counter with positive views.

Torn Stockings I am sorry that you too have become a victim of the poison PM, take it from a veteran, if you are outspoken you will always get one or two people that articulate their responses in that directed way. In my own experience it is sometimes better to apologise where someone has been, or feels they have been unjustly put down by a comment.

Never apologise for a view that you hold to be right for you, but admit when you have been mistaken.

I hope the weather in NE is improving

Snork

 

[little_golden]

A Gentle Suggestion

I think we need to create an environment of open conversation in a gentle and non-threatening means. Maybe if we try to eliminate the personalization of replies to the post of others. We should be able to safely and comfortably differ in opinions and ideas without creating too much of a commotion......

Maybe we can introduce a number of discussions simultaneously.....

Cindy

 

[prometheus 2]

Nice ideas Cindy

I'd like to start with a continuation of the love triangle theme and maybe get some thoughts and ideas opinions ect. as to why in roleplaying it seems to be acceptable to have more than one lover at a time in fact at the same time. is it a wish that we have that in rl if our society would let us and if we could shed the old beliefs about how it should or shouldn't be. Would we eliminate the pain and sense of rejection that now occurs when ever one becomes involved in a love triangle?

 

[DeliciousMaiden]

::tentative observation::

I've been away for a few days and read this thread this evening ... I started off interested and ended up saddened.

I'm making no specific comments, but could I draw your attention to the very first posting:

"CROSSFIRE!... an SRP debate round table

Got an issue bound to raise someones hackles?
Something you want to say that will make the sparks fly!
Then post it here!

Assume the character of member of the Literotica Debate Forum and have at it!

This is of course roleplay, so don't take offense."

Again, being presumptious, I'm going to make a few comments:

Rather than being personal, I think ari wanted us to discuss issues in a "persona" that removed us somewhat from the topics discussed.

I assume that the hackles and sparks were intended to be "in character" and NOT raised at fellow writers.

I know ari would never instigate a thread which caused offence or caused someone to be hurt by its contents.

I suggest that we abide by the orginial outlines if we want these discussions to progress...

(And apologies in advance to any I've inadvertently offended - just in case!)

DM x

 

[DeliciousMaiden]

link

I've only read some of this, but it's been an ongoing debate in the BDSM forum.

Again, it deals with rape from another perspective, but may be of interest to some.

Just to clarify, it doesn't necesarily communicate my point(s) of view, it's just a link to more discussion where the kind of opinions expressed in this thread might have a place ... or not ...

Hope this is useful/constructive and not offensive to anyone!

DM x

https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134643

 

[Lovelynice]

Re: A Gentle Suggestion

First off, I'm apologizing to Torn_Stockings and hope she does come back...because it's way too much fun being on Lit and she shouldn't miss out on that.

Secondly, like 2ndSight said, it takes two to tango; better if we BOTH waited before replying to each other's PMs. Poison PMs? Well neither side is innocent, but I'm sorry about that anyway.

little_golden's idea below is a perfect rule to abide by, and I'm going to try very hard to stick to it.....

I think we need to create an environment of open conversation in a gentle and non-threatening means. Maybe if we try to eliminate the personalization of replies to the post of others. We should be able to safely and comfortably differ in opinions and ideas without creating too much of a commotion......

Maybe we can introduce a number of discussions simultaneously.....

Cindy

 

[ariosto]

I'm glad to see a leveling off of boiler pressure.

I started this thread in response to an unfortunate situation elsewhere and thank my sometimes outspoken friend and GO partner Snork for it's origins in part (and I'm truly glad to see you posting here SM.)
I wanted to see if it was possible to have a forum for speaking out on sometimes controversial ideas and being able to discuss them without spiriling down to personalities. DM was right in suggesting that by giving it the trappings of an RP I was trying to depersonalize it a bit.

Littlel- Golden and SnorkMaiden have given us some directions and guidelines for keeping CrossFire on an even keel and I hope we'll be able to carry on without further incidents.
I believe Torn Stockings will be back soon.

Thanks everyone.