Death by sadist hookers, the new euthanasia?

[FungiUg]

Let's be fair here: the stagly dude wasn't claiming that they were inferior or deserved to be treated as they were. His comment (to me) read that because they were sex workers, he doubted their innocence in general, and that there were things they should have done to avoid being caught in such a nasty situation. I'm not defending that comment, I'm just saying he didn't say they were inferior in any way.

 

[fuckmeat]

According to the article this man was a regular client, who had booked multiple girls on various occasions for his woodland S&M humiliation games. They therefore had no reason to think that he was some nutjob bent on suicide and no reason not to take his word that he would be wearing a harness. So as far as culpability on their side goes, given that they were in woodland at night-time with a guy who had obviously played sensibly enough to still be booking girls from that agency, I think they can be forgiven for not realising he had lied about the harness.

To their credit, they cut him down, tried to give life support and called in the emergency services, despite knowing they risked their chosen line of work becoming public or part of a police investigation. They could have panicked and just left him there.

If this guy had been in a D/s relationship and tricked his PYL into doing this, with no money changing hands, would that PYL be any more culpable than those girls? My answer is no. There was a degree of familiarity and trust based on previous bookings, which the guy abused.

 

[FungiUg]

Are you fucking serious!?!

Well, I prefer wearing large floppy shoes and white makeup for fucking, but that's just me.

Having accepted payment only accentuates their complicity, and granting no thought to safe practice highlights their naivity. Ignorance and/ or naivity does not equal innocence.

When you pay someone, you expect them to take the necessary care to do the job you have paid them for correctly. I get that. They were complicit because of their negligence, and hardly innocent.

What I don't get is why people made the link that you were saying "they deserved it because they were sex workers".

 

[FungiUg]

apparently we're off to the park now, If i can get this sleeping baby off of me.

Maybe you need to add a warning of suffering from baby brain to your sig? Enjoy the park.

 

[fuckmeat]

i'm no expert on suspension (frankly I'd like to get an expert opinion... maybe we should ask Homburg) but checking your rigging before play seems like a fairly elementary precaution.

Yeah, but these weren't experienced rope enthusiasts like Homburg. These were a couple of ordinary women trying to make extra money by pretending to be nasty. They were escorts, not pro-dommes. I don't think a pro-domme would have gone along with his game unquestioningly like that. He deliberately picked girls who didn't know any better, one of whom was foreign.

Aside from that, you make a lot of sense, and yes, to their credit they did try to do the right thing once shit had hit the fan.

Agreed.

My gut reaction to saying "how dare he involve innocents," equates to asking a child to kick out the chair, where I see this case as more comparable of asking a fellow kinkster to weild an apparently soft flogger, without telling them that it's barbed and will draw lots of blood.

clearly my gut reaction is overdramatic, and as such unwelcome.

gotta go anyway, it's feeding time, & then park time.

I wasn't trying to gang up on you.

But I just don't think your analogy fits. It's not a scenario where deception has led someone to inflict a degree of injury they didn't intend to. It's like handing someone a gun, swearing it isn't loaded and then asking them to 'pretend' to blow your head off. Those poor women, whose lives weren't exactly fantastic to begin with, will now have to live with their part in what happened that night, which should be more than punishment enough for their unwitting involvement. I just hope the police at least let them keep the money.

I don't view these women as innocents in a child-like sense but as unfortunates. They were in deserted woodland in the middle of the night to be paid £60 each to abuse their client. These are not high class hookers or well trained pro-dommes, these are clearly desperate women who are out of other options. They did what they thought the guy wanted and I really don't think they can be blamed for that.

 

[BiBunny]

Yeah, but these weren't experienced rope enthusiasts like Homburg. These were a couple of ordinary women trying to make extra money by pretending to be nasty. They were escorts, not pro-dommes. I don't think a pro-domme would have gone along with his game unquestioningly like that. He deliberately picked girls who didn't know any better, one of whom was foreign.



Agreed.



I wasn't trying to gang up on you.

But I just don't think your analogy fits. It's not a scenario where deception has led someone to inflict a degree of injury they didn't intend to. It's like handing someone a gun, swearing it isn't loaded and then asking them to 'pretend' to blow your head off. Those poor women, whose lives weren't exactly fantastic to begin with, will now have to live with their part in what happened that night, which should be more than punishment enough for their unwitting involvement. I just hope the police at least let them keep the money.

I don't view these women as innocents in a child-like sense but as unfortunates. They were in deserted woodland in the middle of the night to be paid £60 each to abuse their client. These are not high class hookers or well trained pro-dommes, these are clearly desperate women who are out of other options. They did what they thought the guy wanted and I really don't think they can be blamed for that.

Agreed.

 

[Homburg]

Yeah, but these weren't experienced rope enthusiasts like Homburg. These were a couple of ordinary women trying to make extra money by pretending to be nasty. They were escorts, not pro-dommes. I don't think a pro-domme would have gone along with his game unquestioningly like that. He deliberately picked girls who didn't know any better, one of whom was foreign.

This was my take on it. He chose witnesses, as I can't call them accomplices, that would not have the skillset to recognise what he was doing. Add in the fact that it was nighttime in a wooded area and you have visibility problems. They may not have been able tell how good the harness was even if they gave thought to checking it.

I wasn't trying to gang up on you.

But I just don't think your analogy fits. It's not a scenario where deception has led someone to inflict a degree of injury they didn't intend to. It's like handing someone a gun, swearing it isn't loaded and then asking them to 'pretend' to blow your head off.

I wouldn't even go that far. These girls, from the description, did not materially contribute to the actual hanging in any way. They were paid to egg him on, that's it. To use your gun analogy, it would be as if someone took a gun, swore it wasn't loaded, put the barrel to their head and told you to dare them to do it. They did no tie him up, did not pull him off balance, or, again so far as the description goes, do anything to affect the hanging. They just watched.

Was there negligence, possibly, but you have no actual legal responsibility to stop someone else from self-harm unless you are in a position of authority or have them in your care in some way. If you walk by someone who is trying to kill themselves and do not try to stop that person, you may be a callous tool, but you won't be legally culpable.

Note: If these two were pro-dommes, they might face some legal culpability. They aren't. You wouldn't expect a brain surgeon to know how to fix your toilet, so I can't say that I would expect a coupla low-rent sex workers to know BDSM best practices for suspension.

Those poor women, whose lives weren't exactly fantastic to begin with, will now have to live with their part in what happened that night, which should be more than punishment enough for their unwitting involvement. I just hope the police at least let them keep the money.

I don't view these women as innocents in a child-like sense but as unfortunates. They were in deserted woodland in the middle of the night to be paid £60 each to abuse their client. These are not high class hookers or well trained pro-dommes, these are clearly desperate women who are out of other options. They did what they thought the guy wanted and I really don't think they can be blamed for that.

exactly.

 

[fuckmeat]

I wouldn't even go that far. These girls, from the description, did not materially contribute to the actual hanging in any way. They were paid to egg him on, that's it. To use your gun analogy, it would be as if someone took a gun, swore it wasn't loaded, put the barrel to their head and told you to dare them to do it. They did no tie him up, did not pull him off balance, or, again so far as the description goes, do anything to affect the hanging. They just watched.

Ok, I agree with that. I thought that Oberon's analogy was way too tame and clearly over-compensated.

 

[graceanne]

I think Fungiug is right, I should probably have a "baby on the brain" warning; when she's not sleeping lately, she's teething... so there's a lot of crying in the background these past couple weeks.

Makes it hard to think

Don't bother. If you have a teething child, trying to think will pull a muscle. Don't worry, soon she'll have all her teeth. In another year or so. Then she'll learn to climb out of her crib.

Honestly, just forget thinking. It won't happen for another twenty or so years. Or so I hear . . .

What were we talking about?

 

[graceanne]

LMAO

yeah, I have a 7 year old to take care of too; she's very enthusiastic about helping with her little sis, and its wonderful to have an extra pair of hands, but there are many times when I want to tell her to leave me to it, or to just leave the little one alone and let her fuss.

Yeah, when mine were little it upset their siblings more to let the baby fuss than it did the baby. It's annoying enough to hear babies fuss without the constant nagging by their siblings.

She has this thing she does where she moans at the baby in competition with the baby's crying, (in attempt to quiet her) that makes her sound like she's in pain herself, which only serves to upset the little one further.

More annoying? When they decide to see if they can be louder than the baby.

 

[satindesire]

Don't bother. If you have a teething child, trying to think will pull a muscle. Don't worry, soon she'll have all her teeth. In another year or so. Then she'll learn to climb out of her crib.

Honestly, just forget thinking. It won't happen for another twenty or so years. Or so I hear . . .

What were we talking about?

*heavy sigh* Boy don't I know what that's like now.

*pats her belly* Good thing I'm getting both out 'out of the way' right? At least that's what I keep telling myself!

 

[graceanne]

*heavy sigh* Boy don't I know what that's like now.

*pats her belly* Good thing I'm getting both out 'out of the way' right? At least that's what I keep telling myself!

Denial is a wonderful thing.