Demonizing sex workers

[CyranoJ]

@EmilyMiller the voice of sanity as ever.

 

[EmilyMiller]

@EmilyMiller the voice of sanity as ever.

If I’m the voice of sanity, I need a refund from my therapist (not a bad joke, I do have one).

Emily

 

[lc69hunter]

All the arguments about how much a sex worker can make. This view has the presumption that the sex worker keeps the lion's share of the money she brings in and doubts they do even where it is legal. I don't count modeling as being a sex worker. Yes, models are sexy, aren't they? But they are pushing products and guaranteeing that their employers make more than them; the companies they push the product for make far more of their efforts than their employer does.

However, on the streets, in-call, out-call, and in houses of prostitution, the worker keeps the smallest amount. It may be comparable, in some way, to any business, but not really. A whores value isn't so high she can demand more of the take, no matter how popular she may be, because they can replace her with little effort for a girl willing to do more for less. Especially so when the work is outside the law.

The brothels in Nevada, with all the add-ons they charge the girls for, are getting about 55%

 

[lc69hunter]

I'll candidly admit that Aella kinda loses me at the word "libertarian." But that's still interesting.

This is not the political forum cesspool, but currently in this country, libertarian is the only sane place to be.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

The brothels in Nevada, with all the add-ons they charge the girls for, are getting about 55%

And if my understanding of the Nevada situation is correct, the girls are independent contractors. That means no benefits, no healthcare, retirement, PTO, and you are paying the employer part of SSI.and other taxes.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Any more political stuff and I’m gonna ask @AH_Mod to lock this thread

Emily

 

[Kelliezgirl]

All the arguments about how much a sex worker can make. This view has the presumption that the sex worker keeps the lion's share of the money she brings in and doubts they do even where it is legal. I don't count modeling as being a sex worker. Yes, models are sexy, aren't they? But they are pushing products and guaranteeing that their employers make more than them; the companies they push the product for make far more of their efforts than their employer does.

However, on the streets, in-call, out-call, and in houses of prostitution, the worker keeps the smallest amount. It may be comparable, in some way, to any business, but not really. A whores value isn't so high she can demand more of the take, no matter how popular she may be, because they can replace her with little effort for a girl willing to do more for less. Especially so when the work is outside the law.

Found an interesting article that supports what you are saying. No matter how well intentioned, the benefits seem to disproportionately accrue to those who aren't actually doing any work.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/11/prostitution-legalised-sex-trade-pimps-women

 

[lc69hunter]

Any more political stuff and I’m gonna ask @AH_Mod to lock this thread

Emily

Agreed. We do not need that cesspool up here. I responded, and I should not have

 

[EmilyMiller]

Agreed. We do not need that cesspool up here. I responded, and I should not have

It’s OK, hun. Just too many emotions on this thread already.

Emily

 

[MelissaBaby]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

I think that one of the reasons that discussion of this topic always seems to go sideways is that most people see the issues involved from the extremes; they either see sex workers as glamorous escorts and porn stars, as desperate crack whores, or as hapless victims wholly without any agency in their own lives.

The truth is that there are many people, primarily women, gay men and nonbinary people, who live between those extremes. They earn their money in a variety of ways that are only lumped together because of the common factor of sex. Working a pole and working a corner are two very different things.

Earlier in this thread, the first time it went around, I shared a scene from one of my stories, The Gold Dollar Girls, which expressed my personal belief that the distinction between a sex worker who earn their living by using her body, sometimes in harmful ways, and an industrial laborer who does the same, is based entirely on sexual morality, not on the well being of either worker.

That does not mean that we should whitewash the inherent physical, mental and emotional hazards involved in sex work. We can spent a couple more pages of this thread talking about sexual power, the patriarchy, religion and morality and on and on. But that's all academic. I'm more concerned with the reality of sex work as it exists in our society. I've written about it quite a bit, and I feel I have the experience to do so with some degree of credibility. I've worked, at several stages in my life as a stripper, and I have existed in that gray area that is mostly overlooked, in which sex is traded in an informal manner for drugs or favors or a temporary roof over one's head. The former was in large measure a positive thing in my life. I had more money and more independence and self reliance than I had ever had before. The latter was caused by my substance abuse and was a miserable existence.

The important thing is, both were a part of my life, and the marks they made on me remain to this day and always will. I'm lucky, I got a happy ending. Many don't. None of us should be judged by those who haven't been in our shoes, whether those shoes are a battered pair of sneakers or six inch stilettos.

 

[EmilyMiller]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

I really appreciate your honesty and balance on this difficult topic.

Emily

 

[SimonDoom]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

I think that one of the reasons that discussion of this topic always seems to go sideways is that most people see the issues involved from the extremes; they either see sex workers as glamorous escorts and porn stars, as desperate crack whores, or as hapless victims wholly without any agency in their own lives.

The truth is that there are many people, primarily women, gay men and nonbinary people, who live between those extremes. They earn their money in a variety of ways that are only lumped together because of the common factor of sex. Working a pole and working a corner are two very different things.

Earlier in this thread, the first time it went around, I shared a scene from one of my stories, The Gold Dollar Girls, which expressed my personal belief that the distinction between a sex worker who earn their living by using her body, sometimes in harmful ways, and an industrial laborer who does the same, is based entirely on sexual morality, not on the well being of either worker.

That does not mean that we should whitewash the inherent physical, mental and emotional hazards involved in sex work. We can spent a couple more pages of this thread talking about sexual power, the patriarchy, religion and morality and on and on. But that's all academic. I'm more concerned with the reality of sex work as it exists in our society. I've written about it quite a bit, and I feel I have the experience to do so with some degree of credibility. I've worked, as several stages in my life as a stripper, and I have existed in that gray area that is mostly overlooked, in which sex is traded in an informal manner for drugs or favors or a temporary roof over one's head. The former was in large measure a positive thing in my life. I had more money and more independence and self reliance that I had ever had before. The latter was caused by my substance abuse and was a miserable existence.

The important thing is, both were a part of my life, and the marks they made on me remain to this day and always will. I'm lucky, I got a happy ending. Many don't. None of us should be judged by those who haven't been in our shoes, whether those shoes are a battered pair of sneakers or six inch stilettos.

The voice of sanity, as always.

You're talking about looking at something, a life experience, in all its complexity, rather than through a particular filtered lens, and that's not easy for people to do.

Whatever one thinks about the legalization/politicization issue, which is somewhat beyond the proper scope of this forum, most of us should be able to agree that sex workers, as humans, should be regarded with the same respect with which we regard people in other professions, even if those professions feature grim circumstances or less-than-optimal choices. There's no reason to cut sex workers less slack than other workers.

 

[EmilyMiller]

The voice of sanity, as always.

You're talking about looking at something, a life experience, in all its complexity, rather than through a particular filtered lens, and that's not easy for people to do.

Whatever one thinks about the legalization/politicization issue, which is somewhat beyond the proper scope of this forum, most of us should be able to agree that sex workers, as humans, should be regarded with the same respect with which we regard people in other professions, even if those professions feature grim circumstances or less-than-optimal choices. There's no reason to cut sex workers less slack than other workers.

Totally agree

 

[MillieDynamite]

Emotions on this stuff. I'm not emotional, you can't say I'm Fucking EMOTIONAL, you take that back or I'm taking my dolls and going home. I DO NOT GET EMOTIONAL!
What were we talking about?

It’s OK, hun. Just too many emotions on this thread already.

Emily

 

[MillieDynamite]

EM, thank you for a new word. I love words. They have so much meaning and can be used and reused. That thar is a new unique word! bifurcate, To divide into two parts or branches.

There are indeed and - given the stigma was have been discussing - I applaud those who are brave enough to state this publicly.

The question is what is best to do about that experience. To help prevent other women suffering in the same way.

This is where opinions bifurcate.

Emily

 

[KRey32]

Meanwhile, back on topic...

I think that one of the reasons that discussion of this topic always seems to go sideways is that most people see the issues involved from the extremes; they either see sex workers as glamorous escorts and porn stars, as desperate crack whores, or as hapless victims wholly without any agency in their own lives.

The truth is that there are many people, primarily women, gay men and nonbinary people, who live between those extremes. They earn their money in a variety of ways that are only lumped together because of the common factor of sex. Working a pole and working a corner are two very different things.

Earlier in this thread, the first time it went around, I shared a scene from one of my stories, The Gold Dollar Girls, which expressed my personal belief that the distinction between a sex worker who earn their living by using her body, sometimes in harmful ways, and an industrial laborer who does the same, is based entirely on sexual morality, not on the well being of either worker.

That does not mean that we should whitewash the inherent physical, mental and emotional hazards involved in sex work. We can spent a couple more pages of this thread talking about sexual power, the patriarchy, religion and morality and on and on. But that's all academic. I'm more concerned with the reality of sex work as it exists in our society. I've written about it quite a bit, and I feel I have the experience to do so with some degree of credibility. I've worked, at several stages in my life as a stripper, and I have existed in that gray area that is mostly overlooked, in which sex is traded in an informal manner for drugs or favors or a temporary roof over one's head. The former was in large measure a positive thing in my life. I had more money and more independence and self reliance than I had ever had before. The latter was caused by my substance abuse and was a miserable existence.

The important thing is, both were a part of my life, and the marks they made on me remain to this day and always will. I'm lucky, I got a happy ending. Many don't. None of us should be judged by those who haven't been in our shoes, whether those shoes are a battered pair of sneakers or six inch stilettos.

I appreciate your comments here. I have no time for moral judgments and those who make them. I am grateful for the providers with whom I have interacted and, when the situation warranted, I’ve tried to help them out. This was especially true during COVID when they could not work. Basic human kindness goes a long way.

 

[LonRivers]

My fiftieth story is about a sex worker. A sex worker who is married (apparently happily) and has a young child.

Now I posted it in LW. I wasn’t expecting a rating of 5 ️ and universal acclaim (as ever, the majority of people were kind, even the anon ones).

But this isn’t a whinge about this. It about comments like “no man would let his wife do that” and “no man would marry a whore” and “what do they tell the child about her disgusting work?”

There was (as maybe is to be suspected) condemnation of the woman and (as it’s LW) her husband. But none for the clients.

Is this odd on a sex site? Or are sex workers not human beings too?

Em

PS This isn’t really about my story (hence no link) it’s about attitudes to prostitution on Literotica

People as a rule, are two-faced assholes. They can sit there and judge others, but refuse to look in the mirror at themselves when it comes to "shaming" or "condemning" people for what they do.

Most of the Anons that comment on our stories can critique our stories all day long, but they aren't brave enough to sign in and share their own stories, if they even have any.