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Adre said:
Key world being usually. In case you had not noticed this did not hold true for the last six months.

I also know that price and yield move in opposite directions, which seems to elude AJ. Did you ever get straight on that offshore investment and tax liability issue you were all backwards on yesterday? You know, the one where you reckoned that American folks with money socked away in Cayman or Singapore didn't have to worry about paying capital gains taxes?
Click to expand...

I'll let you know if I ever need tax advice from you on the issue. At present, I don't really see myself needing an offshore account.

So, Romney having some money invested in offshore entities is a tax dodge but it doesn't actually work, right?
 
query said:
I'll let you know if I ever need tax advice from you on the issue. At present, I don't really see myself needing an offshore account.

So, Romney having some money invested in offshore entities is a tax dodge but it doesn't actually work, right?
Click to expand...

Nice try at deflection. You're the economic and financial expert who barged into the conversation this afternoon to show how schmott you are. As Johnny Savage said recently, you're such a bullshitter sometimes I just have to laugh.
 
Adre said:
Nice try at deflection. You're the economic and financial expert who barged into the conversation this afternoon to show how schmott you are.
Click to expand...

So, directly addressing YOUR question posed to me as a deflection:

Adre said:
Did you ever get straight on that offshore investment and tax liability issue you were all backwards on yesterday? You know, the one where you reckoned that American folks with money socked away in Cayman or Singapore didn't have to worry about paying capital gains taxes?
Click to expand...

Is a deflection on my part?

Nice try.

Adre said:
As Johnny Savage said recently, you're such a bullshitter sometimes I just have to laugh.
Click to expand...

I appreciate how assiduously you attend to my press clippings. Nice to know you are filing them away for me even in threads you aren't commenting in.

How exactly does the scoring work? One point for each person on the board who hasn't implied you are a dunce, and maybe two points for every person that says flat out that I am?

I am pretty sure you are winning, so good job!
 
If it drops another 500, I'll have to toss some cushions for loose change.
 

Code: 
S&P 500:   1930.67          (close of 31 July)


S&P 500 Total Return(YTD):	5.66 %
S&P 500 Price Only (YTD):	4.45 %
65%/35% S&P 500/Barclays U.S. Credit A or Better Bond Index (YTD):	5.40 %
 
vetteman said:
Wipes out all of this years gains.
Click to expand...


but the obama economy is perfect! you need more obama juice:rolleyes:

just think, 10 gallons of the obama juice and you too can become as blissfully ignorant as UD, after 100 gallons you can be like KingofOreos
 
A Tom Foley press conference goes awry in Sprague

By: Mark Pazniokas | July 29, 2014


Sprague – Near the gate of a doomed paper mill, Republican Tom Foley alighted from the back seat of a blue BMW sedan Tuesday to assail the economic policies of Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, only to find himself in a raucous street debate with the local first selectwoman and soon-to-be jobless workers.

Foley, a candidate for governor, came to fault Malloy for the recently announced plans by a global investment firm to close Fusion Paperboard, costing 140 jobs in this struggling mill town. By the time he left, Foley had defended the decision of the absentee owners and told the selectwoman and workers they shared blame for the mill’s demise.

“You want to blame people who are hundreds or thousands of miles away, malign management,” Foley told the workers and First Selectwoman Cathy Osten, a Democratic state senator and Malloy supporter. “Listen, you have failed, because you have lost these jobs.”

That incensed Mike D’Auria, a Fusion manager who is trying to assemble a group that can buy a portion of the mill.

The Democratic ticket of Gov. Dannel P. Malloy and Lt. Gov. Nancy Wyman was endorsed Tuesday by the Working Families Party, whose cross-endorsement was crucial to their narrow victory in 2010.

“These guys worked their butts off. Every single day, I watched them work, work, work. Me, too. Her, too,” D’Auria said, his voice rising. “Everyone who is being affected by this worked our asses off to get this right. We did not cause this, as she did not. The market drove this business into this position.”

It was hardly the exchange planned by Foley, a Greenwich investor whose previous run for governor was hampered by allegations during the 2010 Republican primary and general election that he had bled cash from a failing Georgia textile manufacturer, the Bibb Co.

As Foley argued with Osten and several workers, the scene was recorded by reporters and staff members of the campaigns of John P. McKinney, who is competing with Foley for the GOP nomination, and Malloy, the first-term Democratic incumbent.

Mark Bergman, the spokesman for the Malloy campaign, had come to defend the governor. But when the news conference finally ended, Bergman just smiled, shook his head and told reporters he had nothing to add. Democrats later posted an unedited video of the entire event on YouTube.

Osten and the workers had drawn the parallels to the Bibb Co. that Bergman was prepared to make with a six-page paper about Foley’s management of the textile company.

Foley and Osten faced each other outside a factory.
CT MIRROR

Foley and Osten faced each other outside a factory.

Fusion is owned by OpenGate Capital, a private investment firm with offices in New York, Los Angeles and Paris. The Bibb was owned by NTC, an investment firm Foley founded in 1985 after leaving Citi Group. Bibb eventually was forced into bankruptcy, and Foley left as chief executive. It later closed.

“You’re a businessman,” said Rich Harrelle, a 29-year employee of the mill and president of United Steel Workers Local 1840, which represents the Fusion employees.

“That’s right,” Foley said.

“You close mills down,” Harrelle said.

“Yeah,” Foley said.

“Have you ever made a decision…”

Foley interrupted to correct himself and Harrelle.

“I have never closed a mill down, sir. I didn’t close the Bibb mill. A subsequent owner closed it. So, please get your facts right,” Foley said.

“I want you to get your facts right,” Harrelle replied. “Because when you come here, I can tell you about 140 lives that just went down the tubes.”

“That’s a shame, and it’s policy driven,” Foley told him. “It’s a result of the policies of this governor and maybe the first selectwoman.”

Foley remained composed, even as the exchanges grew sharper. He stood, hands folded in front of him, his blue suit jacket buttoned, throughout the event.

Foley and Mike D'Auria, a company employee who says Fusion's demise was market forces, not politics.
CT MIRROR

Foley and Mike D'Auria, a company manager who says the cause of Fusion's demise was market forces, not politics.

Standing in front of a Fusion sign, Foley insisted that the mill was closing due to a poor business environment that he says is the result of Malloy’s first-year tax increase of $1.5 billion and other anti-business policy decisions.

“We simply need a smarter set of policies to support businesses,” Foley said, “and arrest this exodus of jobs.”

“As governor I’ll be able to do that,” Foley said. “I have a business background. I spent 35 years in the business community, and so I understand what employers need and want to hear from a leader to be willing to invest and remain in a state like Connecticut. I know I can do that. We simply need smarter policies.”

Foley did not answer directly when asked if a Foley administration would have extended Fusion economic assistance, as did the Malloy administration. The state gave the company a $2 million loan in September 2013, which was partly forgivable if employment increased the mill remained open for 10 years. The state was prepared to offer another $1 million in assistance.

Andrew Doba, a spokesman for the administration, said the company now must repay the loan and pay a financial penalty of 7.5 percent on the outstanding balance of $1.8 million.

“Listen some incentives and some credit support programs work," Foley said, without saying if he would have approved a similar loan.

At that point, four minutes into what turned out to be a 30-minute press conference, Osten interrupted.

"Are you a member of the press?" he asked.

"I am the first selectman," she replied.

"OK, you're not interviewing me. Are there any questions from the press?" Foley asked.

But she persisted, and Foley soon was drawn into a debate with Osten, then with several Fusion employees.

"This may be your press conference, but eastern Connecticut is extremely important to me," Osten said.

“OK, well, fine," Foley said.

"We have all worked hard here," Osten told Foley.

“OK, but why have you lost them, ma'am?" Foley asked. "Why have you not succeeded in this endeavor?”

Osten told him the company is closing because OpenGate is selling assets to a competitor, similar to the practices she says helped lead to the demise of the Bibb Co. Foley's replies then grew sharper, and he started to focus on Osten.

"You have failed at your effort to keep jobs here, haven’t you? You've failed. And Gov. Malloy has failed along with you. And you've wasted taxpayer money," Foley said.

Osten said the state is collecting its debt. She told Foley he has offered no indication how he would have kept Fusion open. At times, she and Foley spoke over each other.

"Ma'am, you’ve failed," Foley repeated. "How can you stand here in front the of the TV cameras when you've failed? You've lost 140 jobs."

Harrelle stepped forward, and Foley asked him, "Are you upset you lost your job?"

"Am I upset?" Harrelle repeated, seeming puzzled. "Yeah. One hundred forty people have lost their jobs, OK. We went through six years of concessions to keep this place running."

Harrelle said the union signed a six-year contract in March, accepting a two-year wage freeze. With the new contract and the state's assistance, Harrelle said he thought Fusion had stabilized.

Foley told Osten and the workers they did not understand business. To Osten, he said if OpenGate has sold off assets, it was out of necessity.

“You apparently don’t have the business experience to understand," Foley said. "People don’t close perfectly good businesses.”

In response to a reporter's question -- the press managed to ask a few questions -- Foley said he was unaware of any company that would sell off assets of a profitable company to cash in on an investment.

"It's a fundamental axiom of business. If the equipment is worth more than what they are earning on the equipment and the labor, it's a failing operation," Foley said. "And the first selectwoman here and Gov. Malloy have helped drive this business out of Connecticut."

D'Auria told him market forces were responsible, not Malloy.
"The plant's closing. One hundred and forty jobs are leaving the community. What more do I need to know to come here and talk about it and talk about the failure of Gov. Malloy's policies? That's all I need."



Fusion specializes in food packaging, and the industry is using more plastic and less paperboard.

"If you understood the paper industry, plastic is overtaking cardboard. Day by day by day, the industry changes," D'Auria said. "I’m just telling you that.”

OpenGate, whose other extensive holdings include TV Guide, did not respond to a request for comment on what led the company to sell its paperboard manufacturing machine, which the union says was one of only two in the world.

On its web site, OpenGate says its "investment strategy is focused on lower-middle market, cross-border, corporate divestitures and carve-outs" and that one characteristic of its acquisitions is a "motivated seller." It purchased Fusion in 2011 from Cascade, a publicly traded Canadian company. At the time, the company says it saw opportunities for growth in the paper boxboard business.

Foley was asked by a reporter if every business failure was a failure of the Malloy administration.

He said it was not. Some industries "mature" and no longer can compete, such as textiles.

Foley acknowledged he had done no close analysis of Fusion, other than reading what had been published in the press.

"The plant's closing. One hundred and forty jobs are leaving the community. What more do I need to know to come here and talk about it and talk about the failure of Gov. Malloy's policies?" Foley said. "That's all I need."
 
Jesus, Dan you are a fucking idiot


have you ever thought about seeing someone to get help? you should know, there are drugs out there to help! not that they will help you but these drugs will help you from being a bigger danger to society


welfare asshat


dan_c00000 said:
A Tom Foley press conference goes awry in Sprague

By: Mark Pazniokas | July 29, 2014


Sprague – Near the gate of a doomed paper mill, Republican Tom Foley alighted from the back seat of a blue BMW sedan Tuesday to assail the economic policies of Gov. Dannel P. Malloy, only to find himself in a raucous street debate with the local first selectwoman and soon-to-be jobless workers.

Foley, a candidate for governor, came to fault Malloy for the recently announced plans by a global investment firm to close Fusion Paperboard, costing 140 jobs in this struggling mill town. By the time he left, Foley had defended the decision of the absentee owners and told the selectwoman and workers they shared blame for the mill’s demise.

“You want to blame people who are hundreds or thousands of miles away, malign management,” Foley told the workers and First Selectwoman Cathy Osten, a Democratic state senator and Malloy supporter. “Listen, you have failed, because you have lost these jobs.”

That incensed Mike D’Auria, a Fusion manager who is trying to assemble a group that can buy a portion of the mill.

The Democratic ticket of Gov. Dannel P. Malloy and Lt. Gov. Nancy Wyman was endorsed Tuesday by the Working Families Party, whose cross-endorsement was crucial to their narrow victory in 2010.

“These guys worked their butts off. Every single day, I watched them work, work, work. Me, too. Her, too,” D’Auria said, his voice rising. “Everyone who is being affected by this worked our asses off to get this right. We did not cause this, as she did not. The market drove this business into this position.”

It was hardly the exchange planned by Foley, a Greenwich investor whose previous run for governor was hampered by allegations during the 2010 Republican primary and general election that he had bled cash from a failing Georgia textile manufacturer, the Bibb Co.

As Foley argued with Osten and several workers, the scene was recorded by reporters and staff members of the campaigns of John P. McKinney, who is competing with Foley for the GOP nomination, and Malloy, the first-term Democratic incumbent.

Mark Bergman, the spokesman for the Malloy campaign, had come to defend the governor. But when the news conference finally ended, Bergman just smiled, shook his head and told reporters he had nothing to add. Democrats later posted an unedited video of the entire event on YouTube.

Osten and the workers had drawn the parallels to the Bibb Co. that Bergman was prepared to make with a six-page paper about Foley’s management of the textile company.

Foley and Osten faced each other outside a factory.
CT MIRROR

Foley and Osten faced each other outside a factory.

Fusion is owned by OpenGate Capital, a private investment firm with offices in New York, Los Angeles and Paris. The Bibb was owned by NTC, an investment firm Foley founded in 1985 after leaving Citi Group. Bibb eventually was forced into bankruptcy, and Foley left as chief executive. It later closed.

“You’re a businessman,” said Rich Harrelle, a 29-year employee of the mill and president of United Steel Workers Local 1840, which represents the Fusion employees.

“That’s right,” Foley said.

“You close mills down,” Harrelle said.

“Yeah,” Foley said.

“Have you ever made a decision…”

Foley interrupted to correct himself and Harrelle.

“I have never closed a mill down, sir. I didn’t close the Bibb mill. A subsequent owner closed it. So, please get your facts right,” Foley said.

“I want you to get your facts right,” Harrelle replied. “Because when you come here, I can tell you about 140 lives that just went down the tubes.”

“That’s a shame, and it’s policy driven,” Foley told him. “It’s a result of the policies of this governor and maybe the first selectwoman.”

Foley remained composed, even as the exchanges grew sharper. He stood, hands folded in front of him, his blue suit jacket buttoned, throughout the event.

Foley and Mike D'Auria, a company employee who says Fusion's demise was market forces, not politics.
CT MIRROR

Foley and Mike D'Auria, a company manager who says the cause of Fusion's demise was market forces, not politics.

Standing in front of a Fusion sign, Foley insisted that the mill was closing due to a poor business environment that he says is the result of Malloy’s first-year tax increase of $1.5 billion and other anti-business policy decisions.

“We simply need a smarter set of policies to support businesses,” Foley said, “and arrest this exodus of jobs.”

“As governor I’ll be able to do that,” Foley said. “I have a business background. I spent 35 years in the business community, and so I understand what employers need and want to hear from a leader to be willing to invest and remain in a state like Connecticut. I know I can do that. We simply need smarter policies.”

Foley did not answer directly when asked if a Foley administration would have extended Fusion economic assistance, as did the Malloy administration. The state gave the company a $2 million loan in September 2013, which was partly forgivable if employment increased the mill remained open for 10 years. The state was prepared to offer another $1 million in assistance.

Andrew Doba, a spokesman for the administration, said the company now must repay the loan and pay a financial penalty of 7.5 percent on the outstanding balance of $1.8 million.

“Listen some incentives and some credit support programs work," Foley said, without saying if he would have approved a similar loan.

At that point, four minutes into what turned out to be a 30-minute press conference, Osten interrupted.

"Are you a member of the press?" he asked.

"I am the first selectman," she replied.

"OK, you're not interviewing me. Are there any questions from the press?" Foley asked.

But she persisted, and Foley soon was drawn into a debate with Osten, then with several Fusion employees.

"This may be your press conference, but eastern Connecticut is extremely important to me," Osten said.

“OK, well, fine," Foley said.

"We have all worked hard here," Osten told Foley.

“OK, but why have you lost them, ma'am?" Foley asked. "Why have you not succeeded in this endeavor?”

Osten told him the company is closing because OpenGate is selling assets to a competitor, similar to the practices she says helped lead to the demise of the Bibb Co. Foley's replies then grew sharper, and he started to focus on Osten.

"You have failed at your effort to keep jobs here, haven’t you? You've failed. And Gov. Malloy has failed along with you. And you've wasted taxpayer money," Foley said.

Osten said the state is collecting its debt. She told Foley he has offered no indication how he would have kept Fusion open. At times, she and Foley spoke over each other.

"Ma'am, you’ve failed," Foley repeated. "How can you stand here in front the of the TV cameras when you've failed? You've lost 140 jobs."

Harrelle stepped forward, and Foley asked him, "Are you upset you lost your job?"

"Am I upset?" Harrelle repeated, seeming puzzled. "Yeah. One hundred forty people have lost their jobs, OK. We went through six years of concessions to keep this place running."

Harrelle said the union signed a six-year contract in March, accepting a two-year wage freeze. With the new contract and the state's assistance, Harrelle said he thought Fusion had stabilized.

Foley told Osten and the workers they did not understand business. To Osten, he said if OpenGate has sold off assets, it was out of necessity.

“You apparently don’t have the business experience to understand," Foley said. "People don’t close perfectly good businesses.”

In response to a reporter's question -- the press managed to ask a few questions -- Foley said he was unaware of any company that would sell off assets of a profitable company to cash in on an investment.

"It's a fundamental axiom of business. If the equipment is worth more than what they are earning on the equipment and the labor, it's a failing operation," Foley said. "And the first selectwoman here and Gov. Malloy have helped drive this business out of Connecticut."

D'Auria told him market forces were responsible, not Malloy.
"The plant's closing. One hundred and forty jobs are leaving the community. What more do I need to know to come here and talk about it and talk about the failure of Gov. Malloy's policies? That's all I need."



Fusion specializes in food packaging, and the industry is using more plastic and less paperboard.

"If you understood the paper industry, plastic is overtaking cardboard. Day by day by day, the industry changes," D'Auria said. "I’m just telling you that.”

OpenGate, whose other extensive holdings include TV Guide, did not respond to a request for comment on what led the company to sell its paperboard manufacturing machine, which the union says was one of only two in the world.

On its web site, OpenGate says its "investment strategy is focused on lower-middle market, cross-border, corporate divestitures and carve-outs" and that one characteristic of its acquisitions is a "motivated seller." It purchased Fusion in 2011 from Cascade, a publicly traded Canadian company. At the time, the company says it saw opportunities for growth in the paper boxboard business.

Foley was asked by a reporter if every business failure was a failure of the Malloy administration.

He said it was not. Some industries "mature" and no longer can compete, such as textiles.

Foley acknowledged he had done no close analysis of Fusion, other than reading what had been published in the press.

"The plant's closing. One hundred and forty jobs are leaving the community. What more do I need to know to come here and talk about it and talk about the failure of Gov. Malloy's policies?" Foley said. "That's all I need."
Click to expand...
 
The DOW had just about recovered from its morning losses when President Obama started bragging about the economy...

;) ;)

... started talking about new spending...

:eek:

... then Capital started to flee again.

[voice=Mel Gibson] If this is your economy? Why does it flee? [/voice]

The Socialists are too many!!!


:nana:​
 
Adre said:
Gold down, bond yields rising, market believes the economy is stronger than you do and the Fed has knocked 50 billion a month off of QE on the way to zero by October.
Click to expand...

Citation is needed.
 
Sean Renaud said:
Citation is needed.
Click to expand...

They had been buying $85B a month and have reduced it periodically in increments of ten to $25B next month, so actually the total monthly reduction now stands at 60 billion.
 
query said:
Keep in mind the "growth' in GDP is a rolling accounting trick. Over "estimate" it this quarter, revise it (always downward) to no headlines later, and use the revised lowered GDP number from last month to make up this months over-estimate.

We are crawling out of basement, but only just.

No worries, the "best and brightest," completely uneducated, teenage gang members from Central America will soon be given Pell Grants to add to the glut of college graduates and in just a few more years, things are gonna be coming up roses I tell you.
Click to expand...



On Thursday, the Bureau of Economic Analysis released its second estimate of real gross domestic product for the second quarter of 2014 — covering April, May and June of this year. The release showed output in the U.S. increasing at an annual rate of 4.2%. This is relative to the first quarter when real GDP declined a sharp 2.1%.

The revision is up marginally from BEA’s 4% advance estimate released last month.



http://www.forbes.com/sites/samanthasharf/2014/08/28/u-s-gdp-grew-4-2-in-the-second-quarter-2013-up-from-first-estimate/
 
query said:
Keep in mind the "growth' in GDP is a rolling accounting trick. Over "estimate" it this quarter, revise it (always downward) to no headlines later, and use the revised lowered GDP number from last month to make up this months over-estimate.

We are crawling out of basement, but only just.

No worries, the "best and brightest," completely uneducated, teenage gang members from Central America will soon be given Pell Grants to add to the glut of college graduates and in just a few more years, things are gonna be coming up roses I tell you.
Click to expand...

Ready to admit you were absolutely wrong on this prediction? Or are you, like Vetteman, subject to the Marine Corps Code of Honor that prohibits you from admitting error?



The revision was upward to 4.2%.
 
BobDownSouth said:
Ready to admit you were absolutely wrong on this prediction? Or are you, like Vetteman, subject to the Marine Corps Code of Honor that prohibits you from admitting error?



The revision was upward to 4.2%.
Click to expand...

But...but...but the government lies!! Everybody knows that.
 
query said:
Keep in mind the "growth' in GDP is a rolling accounting trick. Over "estimate" it this quarter, revise it (always downward) to no headlines later, and use the revised lowered GDP number from last month to make up this months over-estimate.
Click to expand...


Wrong Element said:
On Thursday, the Bureau of Economic Analysis released its second estimate of real gross domestic product for the second quarter of 2014 — covering April, May and June of this year. The release showed output in the U.S. increasing at an annual rate of 4.2%. This is relative to the first quarter when real GDP declined a sharp 2.1%.

The revision is up marginally from BEA’s 4% advance estimate released last month.
Click to expand...



And it has been revised upward again:


http://www.marketpulse.com/20140926/us-gdp-revised-upwards-q2-4-6/


Real life again failing to keep pace with everyone's hopes for misery....
 
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