Education Reform

[Selena_Kitt]

We have taken true competition and reduced it to winners and losers in every area of our culture. Competiton can be a celebration of life and the sacred through honing our talents, gifts and passions.

MWAH!!!

beautiful... my heart swelled when I read this...
I knew there was a reason I married you

 

[Colleen Thomas]

We can't throw out concepts and the words that represent them, like "competition," but we can redeem them.

The word "competition," comes from the latin, "com," which essentially means, "shared." The word "petition" has an original meaning akin to "prayer." Competition was originally meant a sa way to be challenged to raise our talents to a higher level through testing them against others and then offering our performance as a communal prayer to the Gods/Goddesses.

We have taken true competition and reduced it to winners and losers in every area of our culture. Competiton can be a celebration of life and the sacred through honing our talents, gifts and passions.

There is nothing wrong with competition. It's when you elevate the results above the contest that you get problems.

 

[entitled]

i slept a little, then came back and read this thread with a clear head. After thinking about it for a while, i can honestly say that everybody here is right.

At the same time, everybody here is wrong.

What each person needs to learn to get by is different. It makes no sense to give an inner city child the same education as you would give to one in the country. It would do them no good. They're two completely different worlds. A child in suburbia would need to learn yet another set of skills.

Don't get me wrong. i'm not saying that they shouldn't learn SOME of the same things. Reading, writing, math, science, the arts, history (though what good teaching the exact same class for the entire school career does is beyond me), home economics, and things of that sort. On the other hand, it doesn't do much good to teach a gangster how to repair a tractor.

As has been argued, home schooling can work. At the same time, it can't. If a person is lucky enough to be in an area that can support a home schooling network, and lives in a state where a teaching degree is not required to be able to home school (it is here), it would do some good to take advantage of that. If a person doesn't live in an area that has those advantages, public schooling might be better.

Private schools are both good and bad, as has been pointed out by Colly and Rob. Only a certain type of person would be able to excel in that type of setting. However, because of the costs, very few can actually afford to put their children in that setting to see if it would work for them or not.

What would make sense - to me, at least - would be a combination of all of those things. The superior curriculum of the private school in a public school setting blended with the type of education available through home schooling. It would be the responsibility of the public school setting to teach the things that could reasonably be standardized. Perhaps a half day in that setting, then to home or on the job schooling, where parents/older siblings/grandparents/aunts/uncles/whatever could teach the child what they will need to survive and be successful in that particular environment.

But that's just what i think, and will never happen anyway.

 

[rgraham666]

You noted the one difference between me and you, Colleen.

You had a family who cared. My family, most specifically my father, thought their job was to break me like a horse.

They succeeded.

And school, designed only for normal kids didn't help at all.

Last time I'm coming into this thread.

 

[Sex and Death]

It is so important that education be primarily public, Shang. So terribly important. All private or parochial education has an agenda of its own. We are trying, here, to achieve a republic.

We want a republic which is engaged with the globe at large. We want citizens who know what that means. We want people with a clue about where we sit, historically. We want people who know what's going on now, who know how it works, who can deal with complexity. Going through the motions is not acceptable, and neither is relying on parochial institutions to do this. Education is central to any hope we may cherish for our society. Central. Beats farm subsidies, beats Lockheed, beats oil companies, beats all that shit. If we aren't raising competent children, we are pissing the future away.

I say this with all due respect and compassion, cantdog, because I feel you have an honest but naive heart that would benefit from an awakening to reality.

In my judgment, it is statements such as you made here that provide evidence that our public education system has very little to do with education.

I do not belong to your ubiquitous "WE," nor do I want my children to be initiated, without their awareness or consent, into that club. The public education system has become an abusive cult of mediocrity and compliance that is designed to rob individuals of will, desire, creativity and calling and reprogram them into compliant worker drones that have the skills, whether hi-tech or low-tech, that will support the systems in our culture that hold power and control (primarily, corporate America). Your "competent children" are the expendable, compliant and controllable Star Wars Storm Troopers, each with the same identical inhuman face, that enforce the party line out of fear, ignorance and stuckness in the pattern of an unexamined life.

The word "education" comes from latin, "educare," meaning "to draw out." We do not have an "education" system in this country at all, we have an "instruction" system. "Instruction" also comes from the latin...from a word meaning, essentially, "to pack in." Our so called "education" system is designed to shove whatever information that the funders of the system deem necessary down the throats of its hostages.

A true "education" is either pursued on one's own or facilitated by a teacher who watches the pupil (interesting, the reference to the eye, huh?) and helps the pupil learn how to learn about the subject of interest. The subject of interest in a true education is determined by what captures the wonder, curiosity and passion of the student, not what will help he or she fit in and achieve the appropriate paycheck and social status.

Of course, it is also important to teach basic tools which a student can make use of in his or her own learning pursuits, such as "discipline," which is rooted in the word disciple and suggests being passionately devoted to the subject that is being pursued. Teaching means to be able to see into the heart of a student, identify what they love, and help them understand it more deeply, even if that means pushing against the superficial ego distractions of the student in certain moments.

It is absurd to debate whether issues, such as the NCLB mandate, are right or wrong, good or bad, helpful or hurtful, when the foundations of the system are crumbling because they were constructed of flawed materials. The NCLB mandate, vouchers, charter schools, more money, tougher standards for schools, teachers and students are all band-aids stuck to the surface of an organism born with a fatal birth defect.

Fortunately, the human, heart, mind, soul and spirit cannot be forever and fully extinguished, and there will be children who will learn to love learning and who will recieve a true education despite our "education" system.

How many of us, here, who have a passion for one or more of the different areas of literature have resigned ourselves to a split life of pursuing our passions, our callings, as hobbies, part-time, after we "take care of business?" Isn't it painful to consider that there is someone out there trying to simply and without passion "make a living" doing what you would love to do more fully in your life because it is your passion and calling? It is the function of a true education to help us identify our passions and teach us to value, them, cultivate them and to give us the tools to pursue them. Yet, what I am writing sounds like some idealistic utopian bullshit because we are driven back and driven down, out of exhaustion and fear, into compliance with the status quo of mediocrity.

No, we do not have to "pay the bills" through pursuing our passions, but our attention and focus is placed first on "paying the bills" and not primarily on pursuing our passions and callings. Our so-called "education" system is a first mover in setting such a tragic dynamic in motion in our lives, country and culture, and it is so by design.

SD

 

[Sex and Death]

Let me also add that many of the teachers and administrators of our "educational" institutions enter into their callings with passion and hope, but they are more often than not crushed under the same grindstone as the students in the system.

 

[Guest]

I say this with all due respect and compassion, cantdog, because I feel you have an honest but naive heart that would benefit from an awakening to reality. SD

*snort*

Whattyda think, cant, baby?

You need some awakening?

 

[cloudy]

*snort*

Whattyda think, cant, baby?

You need some awakening?

I had the same reaction when I read it.

 

[Guest]

I had the same reaction when I read it.

You probably would have said it with more tact.

Apparently I'm in serious disrespect mode today.

 

[cloudy]

You probably would have said it with more tact.

Apparently I'm in serious disrespect mode today.

Me? Tactful?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[Guest]

Me? Tactful?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

See what happens when I go for tact? See?




Edited to add:
I would be very interested in personally helping cant with his awakening. I hope he's on-line soon.

 

[cloudy]

See what happens when I go for tact? See?




Edited to add: I would be very interested in personally helping cant with his awakening, however. I hope he's on-line soon.

Can I help you with that helping?

 

[Guest]

Can I help you with that helping?

Oooh.

Cloudy Helper.

You bet, baby.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I disagree with the theory that public education either is or should be something that enforces a shared culture or set of ideals. The devil is in the details on that one, and when one reaches the question of whose ideals or culture should be the beneficiary of this largesse, I think one sees the dangers and pitfalls immediately. I believe strongly in diversity and difference, and I feel that any steps our government takes to establish some unifying ideal are steps in the wrong direction.

Our country is, indeed, a republic, and one in which all of us have a stake in the common good. But the history of the world teaches us that countries do not grow strong by identifying a single ideal mode of living and thinking and browbeating everyone into it. They grow strong through embracing, managing, and recognizing the power of the diverse groups and persons of which they are formed. Our strength is neither in our unity alone, nor in our diversity alone, but in being one of the few countries to suggest that these things can exist together and support and strengthen each other for the common good of all.

Allowing people to educate their children as they wish is a fitting part of this. In fact, it's the way in which all of the people who founded our country were educated - either at home by parents or tutors, or in small schools run by individuals accountable to no one in particular, or by religious institutions, or by life and their own determination. They managed to see themselves as a republic, and they did not have even the advantage of being born into that point of view. I decline to believe that we cannot manage the same feat.

I think it's also fair to observe that when voucher systems are designed well, they essentially eliminate private schools, not public ones. So long as the state forbids top-ups (fees additional to the voucher) and requires all voucher-accepting schools to accept all voucher-bearing applicants, all schools are then public - or at least all affected in any way by the vouchers. Vouchers democratize. They don't isolate; they allow anyone to join any group desired, rather than being ghettoized by the locations of their houses.

State-wide voucher programs might also force a few states, which shall remain nameless, to sort out equitable school funding systems that do not result in persons earning $30,000 and living in a poor area of town paying the same property taxes as persons earning $60,000 and living in a more affluent area. Wouldn't that be nice?

Shanglan

 

[amicus]

]I say this with all due respect and compassion, cantdog, because I feel you have an honest but naive heart that would benefit from an awakening to reality.

In my judgment, it is statements such as you made here that provide evidence that our public education system has very little to do with education.

I do not belong to your ubiquitous "WE," nor do I want my children to be initiated, without their awareness or consent, into that club. The public education system has become an abusive cult of mediocrity and compliance that is designed to rob individuals of will, desire, creativity and calling and reprogram them into compliant worker drones that have the skills, whether hi-tech or low-tech, that will support the systems in our culture that hold power and control (primarily, corporate America). Your "competent children" are the expendable, compliant and controllable Star Wars Storm Troopers, each with the same identical inhuman face, that enforce the party line out of fear, ignorance and stuckness in the pattern of an unexamined life.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The word "education" comes from latin, "educare," meaning "to draw out." We do not have an "education" system in this country at all, we have an "instruction" system. "Instruction" also comes from the latin...from a word meaning, essentially, "to pack in." Our so called "education" system is designed to shove whatever information that the funders of the system deem necessary down the throats of its hostages.

A true "education" is either pursued on one's own or facilitated by a teacher who watches the pupil (interesting, the reference to the eye, huh?) and helps the pupil learn how to learn about the subject of interest. The subject of interest in a true education is determined by what captures the wonder, curiosity and passion of the student, not what will help he or she fit in and achieve the appropriate paycheck and social status.

Of course, it is also important to teach basic tools which a student can make use of in his or her own learning pursuits, such as "discipline," which is rooted in the word disciple and suggests being passionately devoted to the subject that is being pursued. Teaching means to be able to see into the heart of a student, identify what they love, and help them understand it more deeply, even if that means pushing against the superficial ego distractions of the student in certain moments.

It is absurd to debate whether issues, such as the NCLB mandate, are right or wrong, good or bad, helpful or hurtful, when the foundations of the system are crumbling because they were constructed of flawed materials. The NCLB mandate, vouchers, charter schools, more money, tougher standards for schools, teachers and students are all band-aids stuck to the surface of an organism born with a fatal birth defect.

Fortunately, the human, heart, mind, soul and spirit cannot be forever and fully extinguished, and there will be children who will learn to love learning and who will recieve a true education despite our "education" system.

How many of us, here, who have a passion for one or more of the different areas of literature have resigned ourselves to a split life of pursuing our passions, our callings, as hobbies, part-time, after we "take care of business?" Isn't it painful to consider that there is someone out there trying to simply and without passion "make a living" doing what you would love to do more fully in your life because it is your passion and calling? It is the function of a true education to help us identify our passions and teach us to value, them, cultivate them and to give us the tools to pursue them. Yet, what I am writing sounds like some idealistic utopian bullshit because we are driven back and driven down, out of exhaustion and fear, into compliance with the status quo of mediocrity.

No, we do not have to "pay the bills" through pursuing our passions, but our attention and focus is placed first on "paying the bills" and not primarily on pursuing our passions and callings. Our so-called "education" system is a first mover in setting such a tragic dynamic in motion in our lives, country and culture, and it is so by design.

SD

[/I]


I note you have been 'dissed' by some of the regular suspects, don't recognize your SN, but welcome to the forum.


You seem to display a disdain for, 'taking care of business', well at the risk of incurring your wrath, I might suggest that it is that 'business' that promotes, drives and inspires research and educational endeavors of all sorts.

I just watched a history channel thing on harvesting grains, fruits and vegetables and cotton and was marvelled at the inventiveness of such people as Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin (enGine) and McCormack, who invented the first combination cutter and seperator (McCormack Combine).

It is man's continuing endeavor to find easier ways to supply himself with the necessities of life (business) that inspires the original thinker, the educated ones, to supply the ideas to bring the desires to fruition. I even think those inventors and scientists should be well payed (patents and the like) for their efforts.

amicus...

 

[rgraham666]

*snort*

Whattyda think, cant, baby?

You need some awakening?

Oo! Me! Me!

I'm feeling kinda sleepy.

 

[Guest]

Oo! Me! Me!

I'm feeling kinda sleepy.

(Yeah - right!)

 

[Winemaster]

a great point

I also wanted to point that out....so much to write about on this topic...
I have seen many bright children test poorly...thier average for a class is sooooo much higher than the test they took.....

 

[amicus]

Winemaster]I also wanted to point that out....so much to write about on this topic...
I have seen many bright children test poorly...thier average for a class is sooooo much higher than the test they took.....[/[/I]QUOTE]


You make a good point and you make it well with just a few words.

Of all the children in a classroom, average, above and below average to what ever degree, I think none are served by the system, but I think the brightest and the best suffer the most.

And of those few brilliant ones that appear from time to time...original, creative thinking makes rebels of them as they fight to swim upstream. I think we lose a lot of them.

amicus...

 

[Guest]

You make a good point and you make it well with just a few words.

Of all the children in a classroom, average, above and below average to what ever degree, I think none are served by the system, but I think the brightest and the best suffer the most.

And of those few brilliant ones that appear from time to time...original, creative thinking makes rebels of them as they fight to swim upstream. I think we lose a lot of them.

amicus...

You know what, ami? I completely agree.

As a parent of two young creative rebels I've had to do a lot of upstream fighting myself. It is a constant battle. I began fighting for my children, and now they are learning how to fight for themselves.

They don't have to completely conform, you know. They only need to become aware of what is expected. The baseline. The minimum requirements. Master those skills, and then you may exercise those original thoughts.

 

[Sex and Death]

[/I]


I note you have been 'dissed' by some of the regular suspects, don't recognize your SN, but welcome to the forum.


You seem to display a disdain for, 'taking care of business', well at the risk of incurring your wrath, I might suggest that it is that 'business' that promotes, drives and inspires research and educational endeavors of all sorts.

I just watched a history channel thing on harvesting grains, fruits and vegetables and cotton and was marvelled at the inventiveness of such people as Eli Whitney and the Cotton Gin (enGine) and McCormack, who invented the first combination cutter and seperator (McCormack Combine).

It is man's continuing endeavor to find easier ways to supply himself with the necessities of life (business) that inspires the original thinker, the educated ones, to supply the ideas to bring the desires to fruition. I even think those inventors and scientists should be well payed (patents and the like) for their efforts.

amicus...

Amicus,

Thanks for the welcome.

Have I been dissed...I hadn't noticed.

Ah, yes, I see...dual cackles and snorts...at my challenge of the resident White Knight, no doubt...O dear, I feel the appropriate shame rising...please allow me a moment to collect my faculties...

Ok, the debilitating shame has ebbed. I hope I have properly and appropriately evidenced my chastisement. I do trust that cantdog, the White Knight in question, is up to my minor challenge. It is like a woman to instigate the sparring of men with copious amounts of drama and histrionics. Who can blame them...I love being in a good scrap as much as women like watching one.

I have no quarrel with business whatsoever. I did mean "taking care of business" in the metaphoric sense of putting one's attention on the obligation of any given task as opposed to aligning one's attention with the deeper meaning and joy of any given task.

The question could be asked, Why do we do what is not aligned with our deepest passion? Further, the question could be asked, Why do we do anything at all without aligning with our deepest passion and infusing even the most obligatory and mundane tasks with that passion?

Business, as you suggest it, can be taken care of with as much passion and depth as anything else we might do. My point is that our "education" system, such as it is, is designed to keep us from doing what we are passionate about, designed to keep us from our individual calling and purpose in the world, designed to cut us off from our inherent passion, wonder, curiosity, which are qualities that naturally or archetypally inhere in the process fo learning, in true education. I mean, gosh, how could the masses of mediocrity tolerate individuals being non-compliant and following their own North Stars...it would be the end of civilization as we know it! (Ahhh, doesn't that have a nice ring to it... <grin>)

The relam of business, whether it is manufacturing, accounting, management, finance, invention, etc... is as valid and valuable a realm for the passion of true education as is any other realm. Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Bill Gates...it is undeniable that they followed their true calling, that they followed their passion, interest, wonder, curiosity, that they learned more, received more of an education, from following their passion than from school. Need I even mention Albert Einstien?

I would add to your good point that I do not see that "finding an easier way" was a motivator at all for any of the people you mentioned. Rather, I would say that they were compelled to give their gifts to the world and that, when they seemd to need a rational explanation for what they did, they came up with one...such as, "Well, I wanted to make life easier for people."

I agree whole-heartedly with you that problems to be solved inspire creative thinkers to solve them (although it should be noted that we cannot imply causation form corellation). And, yes, they should be compensated for their work through whatever medium of exchange is appropriate.

In a nutshell, I believe our "education" system hinders the kind of creative problem solving that you're talking about, and that it hinders individuals from discovering in which areas and directions their deepest passions, talents and gifts lie.

Our idea of "virtue" is one of being "good" as opposed to being "bad." We locate "virtue" within the relam of ethics. The original idea of "virtue," which was held by the ancient Greeks, was different. Virtue originally meant the quality of living out and doing what the Gods intended one to live out and do...a virtuous life was oroginally a life that was lived according to one's fate, whether that be shoemaker, king or soldier.

The Greek idea of "fate" did not mean predestination, as it does in our time and place. The original idea of fate meant that unique thing that the Gods meant for us to do with our life, that thing that we were given to do by the 3 Fates, or Morai, before we were born. According to the Greeks, before our birth we were passed through Lethe, the River of Forgetfulness, so that we would forget about the life we lived before our birth, including our fate. But all was not lost, because a creatue called a "daimone" was put in our head. It was the job of the daimone to guide us to live out our fate, and to remind us by any means necessary, even if it meant putting us in harm's way, to follow our calling, our fate, and thereby live a virtuous life.

As Plato, his teacher, Socrates, and his teacher, Heraclitus, noted, it was the job of our teacher, our educator, to see our fate and help us to draw it out and live a virtuous life.

Education is, at its heart, the process of learning how to live one's calling more fully, whether that calling be business, art, war, etc...

SD

 

[Guest]

Amicus,

Thanks for the welcome.

Have I been dissed...I hadn't noticed.

Ah, yes, I see...dual cackles and snorts...at my challenge of the resident White Knight, no doubt...O dear, I feel the appropriate shame rising...please allow me a moment to collect my faculties...

Ok, the debilitating shame has ebbed. I hope I have properly and appropriately evidenced my chastisement. I do trust that cantdog, the White Knight in question, is up to my minor challenge. It is like a woman to instigate the sparring of men with copious amounts of drama and histrionics. Who can blame them...I love being in a good scrap as much as women like watching one.

I have no quarrel with business whatsoever. I did mean "taking care of business" in the metaphoric sense of putting one's attention on the obligation of any given task as opposed to aligning one's attention with the deeper meaning and joy of any given task.

The question could be asked, Why do we do what is not aligned with our deepest passion? Further, the question could be asked, Why do we do anything at all without aligning with our deepest passion and infusing even the most obligatory and mundane tasks with that passion?

Business, as you suggest it, can be taken care of with as much passion and depth as anything else we might do. My point is that our "education" system, such as it is, is designed to keep us from doing what we are passionate about, designed to keep us from our individual calling and purpose in the world, designed to cut us off from our inherent passion, wonder, curiosity, which are qualities that naturally or archetypally inhere in the process fo learning, in true education. I mean, gosh, how could the masses of mediocrity tolerate individuals being non-compliant and following their own North Stars...it would be the end of civilization as we know it! (Ahhh, doesn't that have a nice ring to it... <grin>)

The relam of business, whether it is manufacturing, accounting, management, finance, invention, etc... is as valid and valuable a realm for the passion of true education as is any other realm. Henry Ford, Walt Disney, Bill Gates...it is undeniable that they followed their true calling, that they followed their passion, interest, wonder, curiosity, that they learned more, received more of an education, from following their passion than from school. Need I even mention Albert Einstien?

I would add to your good point that I do not see that "finding an easier way" was a motivator at all for any of the people you mentioned. Rather, I would say that they were compelled to give their gifts to the world and that, when they seemd to need a rational explanation for what they did, they came up with one...such as, "Well, I wanted to make life easier for people."

I agree whole-heartedly with you that problems to be solved inspire creative thinkers to solve them (although it should be noted that we cannot imply causation form corellation). And, yes, they should be compensated for their work through whatever medium of exchange is appropriate.

In a nutshell, I believe our "education" system hinders the kind of creative problem solving that you're talking about, and that it hinders individuals from discovering in which areas and directions their deepest passions, talents and gifts lie.

Our idea of "virtue" is one of being "good" as opposed to being "bad." We locate "virtue" within the relam of ethics. The original idea of "virtue," which was held by the ancient Greeks, was different. Virtue originally meant the quality of living out and doing what the Gods intended one to live out and do...a virtuous life was oroginally a life that was lived according to one's fate, whether that be shoemaker, king or soldier.

The Greek idea of "fate" did not mean predestination, as it does in our time and place. The original idea of fate meant that unique thing that the Gods meant for us to do with our life, that thing that we were given to do by the 3 Fates, or Morai, before we were born. According to the Greeks, before our birth we were passed through Lethe, the River of Forgetfulness, so that we would forget about the life we lived before our birth, including our fate. But all was not lost, because a creatue called a "daimone" was put in our head. It was the job of the daimone to guide us to live out our fate, and to remind us by any means necessary, even if it meant putting us in harm's way, to follow our calling, our fate, and thereby live a virtuous life.

As Plato, his teacher, Socrates, and his teacher, Heraclitus, noted, it was the job of our teacher, our educator, to see our fate and help us to draw it out and live a virtuous life.

Education is, at its heart, the process of learning how to live one's calling more fully, whether that calling be business, art, war, etc...

SD

Good Christ.

Amicus 2.


My apologies, please SD. I did find your previous post to be amazingly pretentious. Glaringly so, and rather than becoming offended and posting in anger I resorted to humor. That is quite typical of me, as I tend to use Literotica and the Author's Hangout as an escape from the stresses of my collegiate studies and family life.

But when someone actually uses the term "histrionics" when discussing the behavior of women (and endorses the use of ellipses) I realize that ami has finally located a soulmate, a confidante.

The AH may never be the same.

 

[BlackShanglan]

I think it important to remember what the current public education system was developed to replace. That is not the world of the private tutor and liberal arts college enjoyed by the wealthy elite of earlier days, but the apprenticeship system to which the rest of the world was consigned.

Our education system, for good or for bad, was never designed to "educate" in the sense of opening every door and encouraging individualism, artistic endeavor, and creativity. It was designed to prepare people for the workforce, and to do so with sufficient flexibility that they didn't end up following the example of the various skilled tradesmen dropped into instant poverty by the industrialization of their trades. Before we criticize it too harshly, I think we'd do well to recognize that it has to date been very successful at that goal. Given the astonishing rate of technological progress in the last hundred years, a system that has avoided creating whole masses of people who spent years learning trades that vanished overnight is actually an impressive accomplishment.

I love the arts. I love creativity. I love individualism and all of its strange, beautiful, and quixotic little fruits. However, I also recognize this -and I take it from the lips of no less than Oscar Wilde, the decadent of decadents: "Everything must be paid for." Whether we like the idea of being slaves to a wage for the rest of our lives or not, we will all need to eat. We will all need to have shelter. We will, most of us, need to work to gain those things. An educational system that fits us for those roles is not inherently a cruel imposition of oppressive power; it's something that allows us the freedom of not starving while we decide what we would like to do with our lives. All other freedoms come from the freedom to stay alive; an education that does not fit us out for that, fits us out for nothing. Even those who most ardently wish to change the economic system - and more power to them! - will first need to live within it.

Let me suggest this. Allow the schools to do what they can by nature do well. What they can do well is teach basic skills and prepare people for the pragmatic and material world. And what schools cannot do well - because they are poorly funded, or because they cannot create a different lesson for every student, or because no one can agree on what other elements they ought to teach - let us do in our homes, as people have done for centuries without the help of the government. Encourage free thought and debate. Introduce your children to the arts. Turn off the television and try learning the bodhran or the biwa. Supply the social graces that are important to you, and they will be important to your child.

 

[Colleen Thomas]

I also wanted to point that out....so much to write about on this topic...
I have seen many bright children test poorly...thier average for a class is sooooo much higher than the test they took.....

We had a guy in my HS class, he was scary smart. the kind of person you felt dumb just being arouns. Extremely well read, literate and articulate. Valedictorian.

He scored lower on the ACT than a person who read no questions but just guessed should. I.e. he scored lower than the 25 percent you should be abl to wrangle by the odds. He did this not once but twice. yet he went and took the placement tests for an IVY league school and scored almost perfectly. He was suspected of cheateing for a while, but it just turns out he is incapable of passing a standardized test. After finishing HS with a ludicrisly high GPA he still couldn't score average on the CAT. A test administered in sixth grade.

He just had some kind of mental block that made it impossible for him to do well on any test administered on a scantron.

 

[eric shawn listo]

Colly,

Wanted to address something you said a couple pages back...

I don't think it's teachers who see there job as "socializers" but the administrators who see socialization as more important that the classroom. This may come from the encouragment of some parents who know that their liddos are not graded on Homecoming week.

Teachers, as a rule, have a certain amount of ground to cover in a given class and find it nearly impossible to get it done with the administrators dragging the kids out for "social" events.

If the government, which requires students to be in school for 180 days a year, were to investigate the amount of time that was spent "outside" the classroom, maybe a lot of this crap would stop.

I'm talking teams that have to travel getting out two, three hours early to go to a game as well. Stuff like that is hard to make right even if the teacher can make the time to make it up.

The socialization of the classroom is sacrificed for the socialization of everything else.

But I really don't think it's the teachers to blame.