Evil is an Artform

[Svenskaflicka]

Whatever good visits thee, it is of God; whatever evil visits thee is of thyself. —The Koran

This I don't like. It's like saying to people "you can't do anything good, you little piece of shit. IF you succeed, it's not your own doing!"

How can a person believe in this and still feel proud and dignified about his/her actions?

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is evil?

They. You know... them. They that say things but never want credit. The un-trademarked. The... oh nevermind. I'm just silly now.

But the decision to offend or not offend would be a selfish one... and if selfishness is evil... are you evil? Am I evil for prattling on? (probably, but I'm ok with that too) Are we evil in just the small things or does it have to be a really big thing? Is it just evil to take a life or is it just as evil to steal a person's livelihood?

Alright. Enough. I'm completely talking out of my arse at this point. Posting to avoid doing anything practical like vacuuming or doing the dishes. And I must stop the madness!

OH, THEM. Decisions are made but never out of selfishness - am I being redundant?

As Abs has oh-pined many a time, yes, apparently I am evil - lol. But, thats her Charleyview, for there is no such thing as good or evil except in minds and imaginations, therefore yes, evil exists in art, or whatever the hell I said earlier

Its been a pleasure.

Tips ciggy, 'cuz she doesn't wear hats.

 

[psychocatblah]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is evil?

OH, THEM. Decisions are made but never out of selfishness - am I being redundant?

As Abs has oh-pined many a time, yes, apparently I am evil - lol. But, thats her Charleyview, for there is no such thing as good or evil except in minds and imaginations, therefore yes, evil exists in art, or whatever the hell I said earlier

Its been a pleasure.

Tips ciggy, 'cuz she doesn't wear hats.

No, the rest of us make every decision out of pure and true altruism. You're just especially evil. The rest of us are good and perfect in every way!

Or not.

Just bringing it back to the notion that selfishness might be evil. I guess my conclusion would be that the notion of evil is too extreme for everyday use.

I remember back in my church-going days, when the pastor said that God hates sin, all sin. He hates little sins as much as big sins.

And I just sat there... in the choir, no less... thinking, "Now that's just impractical. How do you get anything done without at least a little sinning? And honestly, if little sins count the same as big sins, I'm should start sinning bigger. Make it more worthwhile."

It was probably thoughts like that that doomed me to a fairly short stint as a religious person.

 

[Guest]

Shakespeare’s “Richard III” is an excellent study of evil, but monstrous as he appears I cannot judge him. Shakespeare prevents judgment, I believe, through the visitation scene before the final battle (the ghosts of those he murdered come in his dream to damn him to die). I chose this play to show some perspectives on the intricacies of evil and its seeming inextricability with good, at least the idea of good coming out of evil, or that one can do evil to do good. Judge for yourselves, or just think on. - Perdita
----------------

“But then I sigh; and, with a piece of scripture,
Tell them that God bids us do good for evil:
And thus I clothe my naked villany
With old odd ends stolen out of holy writ;
And seem a saint, when most I play the devil.” I.iii
…
The following passages are spoken by Richard to Queen Elizabeth in Act IV. He has already murdered his brother Clarence, helped speed the death of his brother Edward (Elizabeth’s husband), ordered the execution of the boy princes (his nephews—Elizabeth’s sons), and Anne (his wife, whose father he also killed), among others.

“Look, what is done cannot be now amended:
Men shall deal unadvisedly sometimes,
Which after hours give leisure to repent.
If I did take the kingdom from your sons,
To make amends, Ill give it to your daughter.
If I have kill'd the issue of your womb,
To quicken your increase, I will beget
Mine issue of your blood upon your daughter
…
Your children were vexation to your youth,
But mine shall be a comfort to your age.
The loss you have is but a son being king,
And by that loss your daughter is made queen.
I cannot make you what amends I would,
Therefore accept such kindness as I can.
…
Again shall you be mother to a king,
And all the ruins of distressful times
Repair'd with double riches of content.
What! we have many goodly days to see:
The liquid drops of tears that you have shed
Shall come again, transform'd to orient pearl,
Advantaging their loan with interest
Of ten times double gain of happiness. “
...

ELIZABETH: Shall I be tempted of the devil thus?
RICHARD III: Ay, if the devil tempt thee to do good.
ELIZABETH: Shall I forget myself to be myself?
RICHARD III: Ay, if yourself's remembrance wrong yourself.
ELIZABETH: But thou didst kill my children.
RICHARD III: But in your daughter's womb I bury them: Where in that nest of spicery they shall breed Selves of themselves, to your recomforture.

------------------
This last bit of dialogue kills me with its cruelty and obscenity, even with the beauty of its language. The idea of it is brilliant, an amazingly brilliant expression of how evil works. IMO, at least. P.

 

[Guest]

Whatever good visits thee, it is of God; whatever evil visits thee is of thyself. —The Koran

This I don't like. It's like saying to people "you can't do anything good, you little piece of shit. IF you succeed, it's not your own doing!"
How can a person believe in this and still feel proud and dignified about his/her actions?

Flicka, I obviously quoted the Koran out of context, but I take it to mean that 'goodness' comes from God, and it is people who do evil (not that they are evil). I think of the writer speaking to humankind, not to an individual person. Just my take. P.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Flicka, I obviously quoted the Koran out of context, but I take it to mean that 'goodness' comes from God, and it is people who do evil (not that they are evil). I think of the writer speaking to humankind, not to an individual person. Just my take. P.

I don't believe you misquoted P. but I got the same thing that you got from that quote.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is evil?

As Abs has oh-pined many a time, yes, apparently I am evil - lol. But, thats her Charleyview,

Just a side note folks, I would neve want anyone to think that I seriously think of dear Charley as evil, insane maybe, evil, No.

By even suggesting such a thing, I have become a victim of my own thread.
I know of myself that I have the capacity to hate, to harm, but to be truely evil, by definition.....no. I see an evil act as the most vile and contemptable thing a human can commit. But yet I have never witnessed a truely evil act.
I've witnessed hate, predjudice, malice, ego, spite and jealousy, but evil eludes me, thankfully.

I like to think I have a bigger capacity for understanding and love.That my gift of vision will not be wasted on ugliness but beauty and that I can teach others as I learn myself.

~A~

 

[KarenAM]

By the way: Genetics is bunkum when attempting to apply it to moral values and/or talent.

Every child born (assuming 'proper' growth and varied parentage) has the potential to become Hitler or Ghandi, Ted Bundy or Al Bundy, Buddy Rich or Ringo Starr.

I'm afraid the weight of evidence is against this assertion. I'd suggest a look at Stephen Pinker's "The Blank Slate" for a nice summary of recent research on the subject. Our brains govern our behavior, and our brains are the result of a complex mix of genetics and environment. Morality has evolved to be a hard-wired part of our brains; this is an evolutionary advantage because it allows us to work together in societies. But those societies also compete against one another, encouraging us to be self-predatory, which is also a survival advantage (assuming your society is the one that wins-- ain't evolution grand?).

Additionally, those outside the social/moral sphere, sociopaths, are more and more being seen as having fundamentally different brain chemistry than those who operate in societies.

The trouble is, we don't want to believe that we aren't blank slates. We want to believe that anyone can do anything, because we are super-beings, specially created by God or whatever, enlightened, divine. Now, I'll be the first to say that humans are something quite exceptional, and that our incredibly complex brains give us a range of choices that few other living beings have, often including an ability to make moral choices, good or bad, that other creatures can't. But people vary, in morality and talent, and a lot of that is because of the way their brains are put together.

I'd like to be many things I can't possibly be. And as to the list above, I point out that fully half the human population cannot possibly grow up to be Hitler, Ghandi, Ted Bundy, Al Bundy, Buddy Rich or Ringo Starr, because their genetics decreed that they would be born female.

 

[KarenAM]

"Whatever good visits thee, it is of God; whatever evil visits thee is of thyself. —The Koran"
Originally posted by Svenskaflicka
This I don't like. It's like saying to people "you can't do anything good, you little piece of shit. IF you succeed, it's not your own doing!"

How can a person believe in this and still feel proud and dignified about his/her actions?

This is one way of interpreting this passage, but not the only one. If you assume that God and humanity are distinct and seperate, then it would lead to the conclusion that humans are inherently evil. But if you believe that God isn't some guy sitting on a throne somewhere meting out punishment but rather that the divine is a part of us, then it can be interpreted to mean that when doing good you are tapping into that divine part of yourself (remember the Garden of Eden story when Eve becomes "like God"), and when you are doing evil, you aren't.

Of course, be careful when listening to me about this; theology is one thing I've never been able to really understand.

 

[gauchecritic]

Karen,

Unless you take into consideration a recent theory that our brains are mere recording devices and are governed by the rest of the body. Our actions and reactions are first muscular and then mental. Sounds, smells, touches and sights are merely transferred to the muscles by the processor, which react in accordance with learned patterns.

Only after muscular and glandular reaction are taken into account does the brain create a course of action. If this wasn't the case then no-one would move away from the starting blocks.

The brain doesn't command secretion of adrenalin or sharp intake of breath or sudden transference of fat to sugar, these are autonomic actions, initially with no reference to the brain whatsoever.

Only after these actions take place do we attempt to fit a 'useable' pattern to them with the brain. We decide a course of action after we have begun a course of action.

A blank slate is just that. No preconceptions, no morals, no ideas. This is in perfect accord with free will and potential.

On a blank slate which is a globe (hard wired), the only lines you can draw are curved. On a flat blank slate, you can draw in any dimension you please. This is perception and potential.

Any 'evidence' proving otherwise, and remember we are talking about mind here, is bound to be inherently skewed because of the method, execution and preconception of any theoretical testing.

Phlogisten doesn't actually exist, but it's a handy theory when you don't have all the data.

Gauche

Edited to add. Women could be any of the men I mentioned in the list, and they'd probably do a better job of it too.

 

[rgraham666]

We want to believe that anyone can do anything, because we are super-beings, specially created by God or whatever, enlightened, divine.

This, to my mind, is one of the surest signs that a person is well down the path of evil.

The second you no longer believe yourself capable of evil is the second you start doing a lot of it. Right, amicus?

"The wise are always doubtful" is how Socrates put it. The good too he should have added.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

It seems all I do here on this thread is post old rock lyrics, but...eh...

"Only the good die young/All the evil seem to live forever/Only the good die young"

This chorus seems to point out a bit of a trend of good and evil people. Really good people tend to die fast. They are either martyred, slain, die for another, or commit bloody suicide. This is, IMHO, because people hate good people.

Now, while everyone collects their clump of rocks to slay the great prince of lies and his terrible blaspheme, allow me to explain. People may pay a lot of lip service to good people and many individuals may indeed earnestly strive to be like them (usually indicating ones who are long dead and unlikely to come back anytime soon), but few actually deep down care for them. Good people are a reminder of everything we are not. People look at a sinless life or a life lived purely for others and go "that can not be done, or they're just showing off, etc." It's a strained attempt at justification for a life that can't measure up. Good people are the reason we invented justification. Evil people, everyone loves. In fact metal musicians have pointed this fact out: "We're the ones you love to hate". Evil people make everyone feel better, more justified. When there are monsters out there, people of no conscience and horrible deeds, everyone exalts. Every petty sin can be wiped out by the sword of "I'm better than what's his face".

It's all about relative morality, you see? In the human way of thinking, that's what counts. How many people are better than you and how many are worse. Whether or not you've been actually good seems not to matter to them. For this and other reasons, I appreciate the design of Hades more than the other afterlifes. Three sections. The really evil, who's deeds offended even the hard-partying Gods were punished horribly and mostly psychically. The really good, those who did some deed to genuinely improve life in some small way to the rest of the populace (good kings, heroes, various bards, some scientists and philosophers, etc.) were given a nice relaxing field with their loved ones and no wars. The rest, the ones who were relativistic, just wandered around forever with a river to forget their memories if they wanted. Not a reward, not a punishment, just an afterlife. That's what most people deserve in all truth and honesty, just an afterlife with their family for being neither truly good nor truly evil.

Anyway, that's my blahdeblah. And honestly it probably matters not one whit. For in truth, what am I but the symbol of evil, the betrayer of the good, and all that jazz? So, when I say that most people are a little like me and pretending to be my antithesis, it's probably because I'm lying, right?

Depressingly your enemy, The Eviler than Thou

 

[Guest]

Hey, Luci, that is such crap. Just saying. (You either need to speak as your non-Lit. persona, or take a rhetoric class.)

Perdita

 

[KarenAM]

This, to my mind, is one of the surest signs that a person is well down the path of evil.

The second you no longer believe yourself capable of evil is the second you start doing a lot of it. Right, amicus?

"The wise are always doubtful" is how Socrates put it. The good too he should have added.

Exactly, rgraham666. The history of idealists who lost sight of the totality of their good and evil, the totality of their humanity, warts and all, is a bloody history indeed.

Hitler and Osama both have messiah complexes, don't they?

 

[KarenAM]

Karen,

Unless you take into consideration a recent theory that our brains are mere recording devices and are governed by the rest of the body. Our actions and reactions are first muscular and then mental. Sounds, smells, touches and sights are merely transferred to the muscles by the processor, which react in accordance with learned patterns.

Only after muscular and glandular reaction are taken into account does the brain create a course of action. If this wasn't the case then no-one would move away from the starting blocks.

The brain doesn't command secretion of adrenalin or sharp intake of breath or sudden transference of fat to sugar, these are autonomic actions, initially with no reference to the brain whatsoever.

Only after these actions take place do we attempt to fit a 'useable' pattern to them with the brain. We decide a course of action after we have begun a course of action.

A blank slate is just that. No preconceptions, no morals, no ideas. This is in perfect accord with free will and potential.

On a blank slate which is a globe (hard wired), the only lines you can draw are curved. On a flat blank slate, you can draw in any dimension you please. This is perception and potential.

Any 'evidence' proving otherwise, and remember we are talking about mind here, is bound to be inherently skewed because of the method, execution and preconception of any theoretical testing.

Phlogisten doesn't actually exist, but it's a handy theory when you don't have all the data.

Gauche

Edited to add. Women could be any of the men I mentioned in the list, and they'd probably do a better job of it too.

So humans are reactive. That makes sense, but it doesn't mean our behavior isn't biologically determined. After all, what causes a particular physiological reaction varies from person to person, doesn't it? The question is whether each human being at birth is capable of anything that any other human being is capable of, given identical environments.

The fact is that this is obviously not true. We are each different genetically, which means that we each start out life differently. Women could not be any of the men you mentioned precisely because they are women and not men. Some women could do similar things to any of those men, but each of those men was a unique indvidual from birth; not even identical twins are ever exactly alike in their behavior, though they are usually close.

Keep in mind that I am not arguing strict genetic determinism here. Built into our biology is a tremendous adaptive ability; this is our free will. But this isn't a blank slate, and neither are our minds.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Hey, Luci, that is such crap. Just saying. (You either need to speak as your non-Lit. persona, or take a rhetoric class.)

Perdita

It's only a working theory. Something I've noticed around when one moves out of the favored individualistic viewpoint into a broad people viewpoint. Individuals have been very good in the past (and also very evil), but people in their entirety tend toward evil. It's easier and it's funner and it makes the individuals feel better. As for my rhetoric...yeah, I ramble. That's just the way I move on forums and is my personal curse. I tend to save my rhetoric for stories and whatnot.

P.S. I'm sorry if my theories are depressing, but they are not uncommon. This viewpoint has been echoed before by many an author, songwright, poet, and even philosopher and scientist.

-Not at a rhetoric class, The Grim Cynic (pun intended)

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

So humans are reactive. That makes sense, but it doesn't mean our behavior isn't biologically determined. After all, what causes a particular physiological reaction varies from person to person, doesn't it? The question is whether each human being at birth is capable of anything that any other human being is capable of, given identical environments.

The fact is that this is obviously not true. We are each different genetically, which means that we each start out life differently. Women could not be any of the men you mentioned precisely because they are women and not men. Some women could do similar things to any of those men, but each of those men was a unique indvidual from birth; not even identical twins are ever exactly alike in their behavior, though they are usually close.

Keep in mind that I am not arguing strict genetic determinism here. Built into our biology is a tremendous adaptive ability; this is our free will. But this isn't a blank slate, and neither are our minds.

I am reminded of Richard Dawkins in "The Selfish Gene" where he talked about how our genes are inherently selfish and tend toward ensuring their own survival and the survival of their progeny and brothers, but man had the ability to resist them and work counter to their interests if he so choosed.

 

[psychocatblah]

The rest, the ones who were relativistic, just wandered around forever with a river to forget their memories if they wanted. Not a reward, not a punishment, just an afterlife. That's what most people deserve in all truth and honesty, just an afterlife with their family for being neither truly good nor truly evil.

Depressingly your enemy, The Eviler than Thou

But... but... I've never done anything so horrible to deserve an afterlife with my family!!! *sobs*

 

[Belegon]

Every child born (assuming 'proper' growth and varied parentage) has the potential to become Hitler or Ghandi, Ted Bundy or Al Bundy, Buddy Rich or Ringo Starr.

Gauche

Warning: Off Topic Defense of a Childhood Favorite.

Hey, hey, hey!

Ringo Starr is very talented!!!!!

It is just that his talent is not musical in nature.
(I do get the comparison, I have listened to Buddy Rich)

Ringo kept the other three working somewhat together for a good two to three years longer than they would have otherwise.

A talent he still has. Look at the breadth of backgrounds and talents in the various collaborations he has orchestrated over the years.

Thank You. We now Return You To The Discussion In Progress.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I found this website on how to become evil....lol
I thought it might bring some levity to the thread.
LOL.



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"So what are we doing tonight, Brain?" - Pinky
"The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world!" - The Brain


An evil-doer without an objective is a most tragic thing indeed. All that sinister potential going to waste, sitting around unused... It's no wonder the world is in the state it's in today. You will therefore want to come up with an evil purpose, something to devote your life towards and direct your dark energies full force.

1. World Domination

This is the biggie. World domination is one of the most powerful and rewarding of all evil objectives. Surprisingly, however, it's not as easy as one might think. It actually takes a lot of work. So let's take a look at a few of the sinister possibilities.

Military - This is the classic form of world domination in which you take over the earth through sheer military might and weapons of great power. To achieve this end you will want to begin building up your destructive arsenal as soon as possible. Nuclear missiles, armies, tanks, death rays, doomsday devices, giant robotic spider monsters... that sort of thing. You'll also want to formulate your master plan carefully (crush, kill and conquer usually works good), as well as train your troops in the subtle arts of looting and pillaging. Strategic alliances you can fiendishly break later are also a good idea. When you finally feel you are ready, unleash your dogs of war on an unsuspecting world. Send forth destruction like the earth has never seen, and take over the planet in one fell swoop. Also, if you are worried about the United States or Russia stepping in to stop you, fret not. Chances are, if you are using this method, you are one of them!

Economic - The sheer crushing force of a multinational corporation is another excellent means of world domination, and in many ways a much more realistic one. By focusing your efforts on economic power and corporate influence, you can achieve world control without one soldier sent. What you will need to do is make the global market dependent on you for the products you make and jobs you provide, and then collect enough land holdings to become a total monopoly. Purchase both the electric company and water works, and don't forget the four different railroads. Hotels on Park Place and Boardwalk are a foregone conclusion. Should you play your cards right, your corporation will gain supreme power and your lobbyists will eventually have more say than the political leaders themselves. Each decision you make will influence millions of lives, and the prosperity of the world will depend upon your ambivalence. Provided you have any, that is.

Ideological - One of the more truly evil means by which to take over the world is through the use and manipulation of belief systems. Where you become spokesman behind a particular ideology, one so powerful and mindless there is no choice but for it to sweep the planet. Religion is the best example of this, though political movements work as well (see Christianity or Marxism for more details) The main thing to do with this method is construct a belief system so sinister that people actually want to follow it. One based on humanities hatred and self-loathing, with some bit at the end on how you are the one true god. Should your message be strong enough, every man, woman and child will slowly fall under your control. You will be named spiritual king, and while there still may be countries of geographical boundary, there will be but one country of the mind, and it will be yours to command.

Shadow - The use of shadow governments and secret societies is yet another viable means of world domination. Rather than being the one in the limelight (i.e. the presidents and dictators who make themselves an obvious target) you can instead go the route of power behind the throne. The ancient conspiracy secretly pulling the strings and influencing events on a worldwide scale. The Illumaniti is a perfect example of this, and you will want to follow their lead by infiltrating every aspect of human life. Hide your agents inside the political goverment, as well as the military, Freemasons, NRA and post office. Should anyone begin to suspect anything simply eliminate them and then replace their bodies with clones or animatronics. Before long you should be influencing issues of key importance, and though your actions will remain unknown (except from conspiracy theorists, perhaps), your control of the planet will be complete.

Mass-Media - This is a fairly new form of world domination, and one which has shown to be remarkably effective over the last several decades. Rather than using armies of destruction or multinational corporations to take over the world you can instead use the insidious power of media and language. Where you use pop culture itself as a weapon, far more effective than the atomic bomb. To achieve this end you will want to control every sort of information the people receive, and then set up the world in a "bubble" reality. You see, if the public doesn't know that a particular war is going on, or that we don't really need oil for cars, or that the president is a a brain-sucking alien from Dimension X, then they can't get angry about it. Furthermore, if you promote specific world-views into the media people watch, they can then be manipulated into a mindset of your choosing. People will think they are free but in reality be slaves, mindless and controlled by the very entertainment they pay to see. World domination for the new millennium.

2. Destroy the Earth

For as long as man has walked the earth he has longed to destroy it. From the club-wielding caveman to the modern-day creators of Pokemon, all have desired to end the world and demolish everything that exists. And you can be the one that makes it happen!

TOP TEN GOOD THINGS ABOUT THE END OF THE WORLD

10) Really big boom.
9) Get to kill everyone.
8) Burning fires light up earth like Christmas tree.
7) Boiling seas like hot tubs.
6) Whore of Babylon a total babe.
5) Get to watch moon turn to blood - Cool!
4) Ravaging demons - 'nuff said.
3) Bio-plagues turn people funny colors.
2) Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Party animals! (Chug it! Chug it!)
1) Heart-to-heart talks with C'thulhu before he eats you.


Asteroids From Space - One rogue asteroid could skyrocket this planet back to the ice age. Death from above is thus another nefarious means of world destruction, though only really recommended for the most advanced evil geniuses. The reason for this is that it is unfortunately rather difficult to intentionally cause such collisions. Know that you will need two things to bring about said heavenly mayhem: an asteroid, and some sort of tractor beam. The first is easy enough, as they're practically everywhere. You can even use the moon if you're so inclined. The second, however, is a bit more difficult, in that you will need some sort of gravity generator. Though this may seem like a tall order, it really isn't, especially if you stockpile your lair with enough mad scientists. Just leave them to it, and before long you should have a weapon capable of taking out the earth in one fell swoop.

Deadly Viruses - Thanks to todays advancements in biological warfare there are now literally thousands of deadly viruses to decimate the earth's population. Horrific diseases that cause prolonged pain and suffering, that eat a person from the inside out and for which there is no known cure. Your best bet is probably the Ebola Virus, notable for its devastating effects and quickness of spreading. While most virulent in Africa, it is possible to find copies of it elsewhere, particularly in government laboratories and infected monkeys. Simply find someone on the inside who agrees with your "humanity must die" philosophy, use them and their access codes to smuggle out the disease, and within 72 hours the human race should be nothing but a faded memory.

Biblical Apocalypse - While many evil masterminds do not believe in any sort of God (except themselves, of course) it must be noted that biblical armageddon is a valid possibility. This classically depicted religious apocalypse can actually be quite sinister, what with the sky falling, dead rising from the grave and cities crumbling into dust. You can learn all about it by reading the Book of Revelations, a stunning read. Now, a few of you might be wondering about that whole good triumphing over evil thing described at the end, but you've got to realize that's just PR. If anything, the whole prophecy thing works against them, because it gives you in depth instructions as to everything that's going to happen, right down to the order of events! Success thus simply becomes a matter of analyzing the battle plans, finding a weakness and crushing them like Patton did to that German guy in WWII. A thousand years of darkness was never easier.

The Great Old Ones - Unleashing powerful supernatural forces to destroy all mankind is yet another delightful method of world destruction. This option is especially good due to the myriad of nightmarish horrors you can summon forth, ranging from Christian Devils to Babylonian Gods to unpronounceable Enochian Demons. Your best bet, however, would probably be the Great Old Ones, as described by famed weird fiction writer H.P. Lovecraft. These eldritch horrors are so mind-bogglingly incomprehensible that they can cause mass insanity simply through their very existence and devour the entire human race without even batting a tentacle. All you need do is obtain a copy of the Necronomicon, read aloud the blasphemous contents and then let the Things That Should Not Be wipe out the plague that is humanity. Death and destruction the way it was meant to be.

Thermonuclear Missiles - If all else fails, then you can consider the truly classic method of world destruction: thermonuclear missiles. This form of widespread death has long haunted the nightmares of millions, and not without reason. One well-placed nuke could result in a world war of epic proportions. As such, it may be just what you need to bring about global doom. The main thing to do is obtain some nuclear warheads, currently available from most arms dealers, and at rock bottom prices no less! If you happen to be short on funds then you can always build your own, provided you have access to plutonium and a lot of plate steel. Once you finally have your missiles then it's just a matter of letting them fly, and perhaps ransoming the world first. You are an evil mastermind, after all, and so might as well have a little fun before everything is annihilated into oblivion.

3. Widespread Misery

There is one thing that most evil-doers cannot abide, and that is happiness. Cheerfulness, contentedness, warm-fuzzy-I-love-you-ness, call it what you will. It's horrid. Wretched. And it must be stopped. Evil-doers try to attempt this in many ways, thus focusing their efforts on general badness and the spreading of widespread misery. To turn that smile upside-down into one big unhappy frown, and overall just make the world a worse place.

Criminal Activities - One of the first things you should consider is taking part in a wide variety of criminal activities. These are the lifeblood of the supervillain, the source of your evil and income and personal entertainment. Many like to do this through murder, dispatching their enemies with bladed projectiles or electrical death traps. Others prefer theft, spending their time robbing Fort Knox or stealing the crown jewels. Even vice is a valid possibility, with many entry-level positions now available in pimping or narcotics distribution. Whether you want to be a criminal mastermind, corporate bastard or just a common thug, illegal activities should be a top priority on everybodys "to-do" list.

Police State - Another method in which you can promote widespread despair is by transforming your country into one giant police state. An orwellian nightmare of secret police and honeycombed video cameras, with every home a prison and every citizen a slave. Doublespeak can become the language of the land as your government spreads to control all, with two plus two equaling five and free thought nothing but a distant memory. There will be no dissent, no hope, just an unending future of sorrow and darkness. Life the way it was meant to be lived: under your watchful eye, benevolent hand, and complete and maniacal control.

Environmental - An especially horrible technique for increasing general hopelessness is to promote widespread acts of environmental destruction. This will both make the world a physically wretched place to live in as well as create an irrevocable feeling of doom amongst the people. Good acts to engage in include deforestation, oil spills, and the constant manufacture of smoke stacks to pollute the air. Other possible befoulments include the careless disposal of dangerous chemicals, exterminating entire species of cuddly animals and sending out the litter squads en masse. All this and more is necessary to make the world a more horrid and dreadful place. If not for your children, then for your children's children.

Soul Accumulation - Many evil-doers also enjoy the fine sport of soul accumulation. This objective was originally only practiced by the Devil, but has recently expanded worldwide to a number of forms. The most common is that of a soul contract, in which you are granted ownership of the soul in exchange for their hearts desire. Another means is through the practice of the black arts, where you get to perform evil magical rites while wearing fashionable black robes. You can even attempt to trick the victims out of their souls through telemarketing scams and rigged contests. Whichever route you choose, just make sure that a constant supply of souls is being sent to Hell. Your infernal cohorts will undoubtedly be so pleased that they will reward you greatly and grant you your fondest wish. Or was it eternal damnation? Perhaps you should read the fine print…

Politics - Perhaps the best way to promote universal suffering is through the avenue of politics. Yes, the arena of oily hides and greased palms, where you screw your constituents and take 'em for everything they've got. The ways to do this are nearly endless, and all of them incredibly fun. Enact laws that eliminate any sort of rights or freedom held by the people. Justify authoritarian fear tactics by saying you are "tough on crime." Start wars with other nations and then bet against your country to clean up at the bookies. Accept briefcases full of money to let corporations dump toxic waste in old folks homes and petting zoos. Apply white-out to the constitution until it appears more to your liking. You know, the usual deal.


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[rgraham666]

Damn it Abs! You've given away my game!

It's a brain slug for you!

 

[CharleyH]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What is evil?

Just a side note folks, I would neve want anyone to think that I seriously think of dear Charley as evil, insane maybe, evil, No.

Oh Abs, did you miss the little lol behind that? Do I need to spell it out with emoticons? I know how you love them. LOL. That was L-O-L

You are so sweet though, and I was only evil for the whole five seconds that my post number lay at 1666.

 

[Pure]

I guess I'd like to make evil a bit more exotic than would appear from some of what people say.

Perhaps 'gratuitousness' is a main constituent, as in the original act of Poe's 'The Black Cat.' Not your ordinary Nazi prison guard, but the one who arbitrarily picks a kid out of the line and smashes its head.

Two proposals I don't agree with. Evil as selfishness, built into all of us. Something like Colleen said. I agree there's selfishness, but don't see the evil. If a fellow takes my money to pay his debts, I can't moralize about it. If he takes my money and lights a pile of it on fire to amuse himself and freak me out, I do complain. Selfishness is an ingredient of living, as for example, when my dog eats the steak off my plate when I go to answer the door.

Second is the 'against life' idea, stated by Perd. As she notes it quickly leads to 'nature, in parts, is evil', and that, to my mind doesn't make any sense. Shall we say the sun is good, but Sirius is evil, as are the several black holes? I can't call an asteroid hitting the earth, an evil act; as someone else indicated, a rock falling on my head from a cliff above is not evil either.

Add to that the problem, that aside from total incineration, the outcomes are unknown. The asteroids that have done *major damage* including, iirc killing the dinosaurs, probably made *US possible.

Finally add to that, 'which life', and the speaker usually means 'higher forms' (which is nonsense, as a concept). In fact, an atomic war leaving only cockroaches and the like has arguably furthered life, in ridding the world of some of the main doers of evil, the featherless two legged ones.

Just my 2 cents. I don't see that the scene partially described by ABS has much to do with evil. It's just feud of Group A, and Group B, Hatfields and McCoys. A Hatfield, Mr Harry has a chance to do in a McCoy, Mr. Mark who's killed lotsa Hatfields, and so it goes. On to the next round. Who kills Harry?

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Just my 2 cents. I don't see that the scene partially described by ABS has much to do with evil. It's just feud of Group A, and Group B, Hatfields and McCoys. A Hatfield, Mr Harry has a chance to do in a McCoy, Mr. Mark who's killed lotsa Hatfields, and so it goes. On to the next round. Who kills Harry?

You're right, the scene doesn't have much to do with evil. I think what was my original train of thought for me, was to look inside of someone who could be evil.
I needed to hear other's thoughts on the subject in general, so all in all, I think it did prove to be an interesting thread.

 

[shereads]

I think "evil" is how we define human actions that are so far from what is acceptable as to be abhorrent. How each person and each society defines it varies, but I think there's a universal conscience that tells us all when a line has been crossed: unnecessary cruelty, or cruelty that serves no purpose that we can comprehend, is evil.

In Miami, a fourteen-year-old boy is about to go on trial for slitting the throat of his younger friend in the restroom at school. There's been a lot of coverage of this boy's diaries, as the court hears evidence that will determine whether he is competent to stand trial.

This is a boy with normal-seeming parents and an older sister (he also planned to kill the sister, according to his diary, and another boy who didnt' come to school that day. "Love only parents," is one diary entry from the days leading up to the murder.)

Now, and after Columbine, I can't help wondering what the parents of the killer must be going through. The families of the victims will receive public support, but the parents of this apparently conscience-less young killer are assumed by most people to have been part of the problem. But it's possible that they are just as bewildered and devastated as they appear to be. They noticed some obsessive behavior and personality changes. Should they have suspected that their son had a capacity for senseless brutality toward a boy he treated as a friend? Would any parent make that connection?

I think about definitions of evil, and that I define it as cruelty that has no purpose. But in the mind of this boy, for reasons that maybe not even his parents can comprehend, the deaths of others were for a reason. It's expressed without any clarity in the wierd collection of directives and self-improvement lists in his diary, but to him there must have been some goal at the end. If he is insane, can he still be evil? And what's the difference between the two, if the end result is the same.

In "Under the Banner of Heaven," there's a jailhouse interview with the fundamentalist Mormon cultist who butchered his brother's wife and baby daughter after receiving an order from God. He has no remorse, because the sin would have been in refusing to carry out God's will. Asked if he and Osama bin Laden are the same, he thinks for a while and says, "You might think we're the same, because we both serve God. But he serves a false God. I serve the true God." Is he evil? Or just deluded? And again, what's the diffference?

I'm just glad I don't have a fourteen year old kid who's been spending time looking through the knife drawer. If this family thought they had a normal child, it makes me wonder whether it's possible to really know anyone else, even those we're closest to.