Executive Order on Gun Control

[BotanyBoy]

Obama isn't talking about an EO ban on handguns. .

I never said he was, I wouldn't expect him to....he's got the (D) hard on for gun accessories bans.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I never said he was, I wouldn't expect him to....he's got the (D) hard on for gun accessories bans.

He isn't even talking about that. He is currently talking about closing a loophole that allows gun shows not to do background checks. Which pro-gun people claim doesn't exist. So I don't see why they don't back him, get a photo-op convincing low information voters that they are on board for 'real change' and call it a day. After all if he's effectively banning people from building prisons on the moon what harm is there.

Or there really is a loophole and they have a vested interest in keeping it open.

Or they are so married to opposing Obama at every step that if he declared Breakfast the most important meal of the day they'd set to work on outlawing it.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

obama, after all it isn't a real American so why is anyone surprised the asshole terrorist will use Executive orders to get its way.

obama one spoiled cunt

 

[BotanyBoy]

He isn't even talking about that. He is currently talking about closing a loophole that allows gun shows not to do background checks.

I know.

But he frequently mentions it as sensible gun control when talking out his ass on the subject. Which means he's on board with mainstream (D)erp.

Which pro-gun people claim doesn't exist.

No they don't they just think the libz calling it that is fucking retarded at worst and dishonest wordplay at best.

If they aren't going to outright ban private sale of guns (LOL good luck with THAT!) then you aren't closing any "loophole" at gun shows.

Or they are so married to opposing Obama at every step that if he declared Breakfast the most important meal of the day they'd set to work on outlawing it.

The GOP carries a rather high percentage of these no doubt.

Hell he could de-regulate guns and they would still fucking bitch about it.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I know.

But he frequently mentions it as sensible gun control when talking out his ass on the subject. Which means he's on board with mainstream (D)erp.



No they don't they just think the libz calling it that is fucking retarded at worst and dishonest wordplay at best.

If they aren't going to outright ban private sale of guns (LOL good luck with THAT!) then you aren't closing any "loophole" at gun shows.



The GOP carries a rather high percentage of these no doubt.

Hell he could de-regulate guns and they would still fucking bitch about it.

I disagree but see your point. I Would think background checks = sensible gun control. If perhaps inneffective.

You probably could ban private sales but this is about dealers which then just goes to question what stops dealers from doing private deals. I know there has to be a law in place.

I try to have more faith in the GOP than that. . .but it's hard sometimes. Wont' lie.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

obama is drunk on power ... like Bill Clinton in a brothel


after all that retard has never had a real job.

 

[about_average]

The outline has been released.
White House Fact Sheet

What I posted in another thread:

Based on face value, I don't have a problem with any other than #4. Of course, the devil is in the details. For instance, I've read that the plan for implementing #1 is pretty convoluted and could, some cases, allow collectors/hobbyists to sell numerous guns without a license, yet require a person who sells a single gun to have one.

As for #4, I don't like relying on technology in situations like this. There are way too many examples of faulty implementation of technology having a failure mode that makes things more dangerous. In the case of guns, would a complete failure of such technology prevent me from firing in order to save my life or the life of someone else?
Or what if my gun were needed by someone else to save my their or my life in a case where I wasn't present or I was incapacitated?

There are very few instances where I'm a fan of laws to save adults from themselves. Considering that 60% of gun deaths are suicides, this wouldn't be one of those instances.

 

[phrodeau]

The outline has been released.
White House Fact Sheet

What I posted in another thread:

Based on face value, I don't have a problem with any other than #4. Of course, the devil is in the details. For instance, I've read that the plan for implementing #1 is pretty convoluted and could, some cases, allow collectors/hobbyists to sell numerous guns without a license, yet require a person who sells a single gun to have one.

As for #4, I don't like relying on technology in situations like this. There are way too many examples of faulty implementation of technology having a failure mode that makes things more dangerous. In the case of guns, would a complete failure of such technology prevent me from firing in order to save my life or the life of someone else?
Or what if my gun were needed by someone else to save my their or my life in a case where I wasn't present or I was incapacitated?

There are very few instances where I'm a fan of laws to save adults from themselves. Considering that 60% of gun deaths are suicides, this wouldn't be one of those instances.

Why would you need to fire a gun in order to save a life? I thought the mere presence of a gun was the deterrent.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I disagree but see your point. I Would think background checks = sensible gun control. If perhaps inneffective.

It is, but we have an cluster fuck system for the check and you can't background check private sales without prohibiting them. Without those other laws to back it up all this background check beww shit is pointless.

You probably could ban private sales but this is about dealers which then just goes to question what stops dealers from doing private deals. I know there has to be a law in place.

Yea if you had a super majority D in the legislature and one in the WH, otherwise there wont be a ban on private sales of guns anytime soon.

This isn't about dealers, they already have to run paperwork.

The "loophole" is that I can go meet stranger john at the gun show and buy one of his 50 weapons without any restrictions because 'private' sale.

I try to have more faith in the GOP than that. . .but it's hard sometimes. Wont' lie.

I have faith in money, the GOP and DNC are both after it and all that other shit is just that...buushit.

 

[Ramone45]

Well there ya go. Complete with fake waterworks.

 

[contrifan32]

I guess he is thinking if he cries maybe someone will take him seriously. Those weren't crocodile tears... they were lame duck tears.

 

[Sean Renaud]

It is, but we have an cluster fuck system for the check and you can't background check private sales without prohibiting them. Without those other laws to back it up all this background check beww shit is pointless.



Yea if you had a super majority D in the legislature and one in the WH, otherwise there wont be a ban on private sales of guns anytime soon.

This isn't about dealers, they already have to run paperwork.

The "loophole" is that I can go meet stranger john at the gun show and buy one of his 50 weapons without any restrictions because 'private' sale.



I have faith in money, the GOP and DNC are both after it and all that other shit is just that...buushit.

I agree the law is useless as it stands. Of course if we did the unspeakable and registered guns you wouldn't need to outlaw private sales. I am curious what precisely the law states on private sales anyhow.

I don't even think a super majority could realistically pull it off. I think you'd need an absurd mega-majority. I'm talking like 80% of Congress.

My point about the loophole is there must be some legally set boundaries. Guy with 50 guns at a show willing to sell should equal a vendor legally and more to the point if I am a vendor for the sake of argument and I know you're a terrorist and I don't care is there anything preventing me from "privately" selling you the gun? I mean it might look suspicious on paper if anybody really bothered to dig in but what stops this.

Sean Inc gives gun to Sean Renaud for zero dollars.
Sean Renaud sells gun to Ishmael retail value plus best friends forever fee of 50% of cost.

Oh, I meant the part where they'd oppose Obama no matter what.

 

[phrodeau]

I'm sure that with some good old American ingenuity and innovation, gun dealers can still sell to criminals and terrorists.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I agree the law is useless as it stands. Of course if we did the unspeakable and registered guns you wouldn't need to outlaw private sales. I am curious what precisely the law states on private sales anyhow.

Registering guns is a waste of time/money/paperwork. Register people they are MUCH easier to keep track of.

I don't even think a super majority could realistically pull it off. I think you'd need an absurd mega-majority. I'm talking like 80% of Congress.

Yea, it's basically impossible.

My point about the loophole is there must be some legally set boundaries. Guy with 50 guns at a show willing to sell should equal a vendor legally and more to the point if I am a vendor for the sake of argument and I know you're a terrorist and I don't care is there anything preventing me from "privately" selling you the gun? I mean it might look suspicious on paper if anybody really bothered to dig in but what stops this.

Sean Inc gives gun to Sean Renaud for zero dollars.
Sean Renaud sells gun to Ishmael retail value plus best friends forever fee of 50% of cost.

Oh I agree there needs to be defined requirements/qualifiers/boundaries etc. to tell what is a private sales or a vendor sale.

Might happen in like 200 years.

Oh, I meant the part where they'd oppose Obama no matter what.

Oh I have zero. The guy could singlehandedly cure cancer, economically take over China and Europe with bankers, end poverty in the US and do it all for less than ever before and they would still cry about what a communist antichrist POTUS he is.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Registering guns is a waste of time/money/paperwork. Register people they are MUCH easier to keep track of.



Yea, it's basically impossible.



Oh I agree there needs to be defined requirements/qualifiers/boundaries etc. to tell what is a private sales or a vendor sale.

Might happen in like 200 years.



Oh I have zero. The guy could singlehandedly cure cancer, economically take over China and Europe with bankers, end poverty in the US and do it all for less than ever before and they would still cry about what a communist antichrist POTUS he is.

I don't see why logistically registering guns is harder than people. It shouldn't be much harder than registering a car. This person has this gun, so says the paperwork and they never filed for it being stolen. Anything happens they are at least partially responsible. Now politically you still need that 80% control of Congress that ain't happening but niether is registering people.

I just assumed there were defined boundaries and I was ignorant of them, not that they don't exist.

Your probably right about Republicans but I gotta believe that they are real people. And be dissapointed on a nearly weekly basis.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I don't see why logistically registering guns is harder than people. It shouldn't be much harder than registering a car.

How many guns do you think I can hide from the law vs how well do you think I can hide from the law? Canada had a registry for almost 2 decades and it did nothing....turns out their criminals don't register their weapons and something that easy to hide is REALLY REALLY hard to keep track of/control over.

Cars? We can barely keep track of those fuckers either and we have a multi billion dollar system with millions of employees trying to keep track of them and tens of thousands of cops trying to keep their theft at bay. Still failing.

it might have occasionally helped if we had kept shit hot records since day 1 of weapons manufacturing. But we don't and that cat is way the fuck out of the bag. We would have to street sweep and earth penetrating radar scan every square inch of the country, take all the guns and start fresh to have any hope of a gun registry being worth piss all.

This person has this gun, so says the paperwork and they never filed for it being stolen. Anything happens they are at least partially responsible. Now politically you still need that 80% control of Congress that ain't happening but niether is registering people.

I don't think licencing would be anywhere near as hard to push or enforce as registering guns.

I just assumed there were defined boundaries and I was ignorant of them, not that they don't exist.

Your probably right about Republicans but I gotta believe that they are real people. And be dissapointed on a nearly weekly basis.

They don't exist, there is a lot of discretionary bullshit and loose phrasing because we didn't want to piss the NRA off.

IT's ok I do the same thing with democrats hoping one of them at some point wont turn out to be a scamming money grabbing mother fucker. And am disappointed on a nearly weekly basis too.

 

[Ramone45]

Briefly, I don't like this adversarial style of leadership where the focus for wrongdoing is on those who are likely to obey the law.
Leading by Executive Action is contrary to the American society.
The action is unlikely to have any effect on gun violence. Doing something just for the sake of doing something rarely results in anything positive.
I would feel better if he focussed on the people who use guns illegally. Enforce THOSE laws to their fullest extent. THAT would make a difference. How many Sandy Hooks happened in Chicago last year under Rahm Emmanuel? Where are the tears for them?
Build lots more prisons if you have to.

 

[Sean Renaud]

How many guns do you think I can hide from the law vs how well do you think I can hide from the law? Canada had a registry for almost 2 decades and it did nothing....turns out their criminals don't register their weapons and something that easy to hide is REALLY REALLY hard to keep track of/control over.

I'd love to hear stats on Canadian gun violence used in crimes since your argument hinges on it. But you can easily hide a lot of them, but going forward registry at point of purchase.

Cars? We can barely keep track of those fuckers either and we have a multi billion dollar system with millions of employees trying to keep track of them and tens of thousands of cops trying to keep their theft at bay. Still failing.

Again, what problem do we have keeping track of cars? Hell I have a friend who's car has been stolen so often it's basically the world's birthday gift to him and they keep managing to find it. Turns out the combination of vin numbers and license plates does a fair to decent job of that. But since you are privy to knowledge I'm not please, elaborate.

it might have occasionally helped if we had kept shit hot records since day 1 of weapons manufacturing. But we don't and that cat is way the fuck out of the bag. We would have to street sweep and earth penetrating radar scan every square inch of the country, take all the guns and start fresh to have any hope of a gun registry being worth piss all.

You mean it might eventually help if we start keeping hot shit records. The ones that we miss don't worry about. Nail the fuckers to the wall when it gets found. Make the penalty for being caught with an illegal firearm so goddamn over the top that people won't do it.

I don't think licencing would be anywhere near as hard to push or enforce as registering guns.

How? Unless we get fucking google glass that both tells cops who is in posession of a gun at all times and then instantly checks the database to see if they can hold one I don't see that solving much. The only thing licensing would do would be to tell cops to stop and frisk every person on the streets.

They don't exist, there is a lot of discretionary bullshit and loose phrasing because we didn't want to piss the NRA off.

Interesting. I learned something.

IT's ok I do the same thing with democrats hoping one of them at some point wont turn out to be a scamming money grabbing mother fucker. And am disappointed on a nearly weekly basis too.

I rarely find them to be money grubbing. At least in the traditional sense. I find them to be spineless and every so often one of them does something where I have to say "gee it's almost like they have testicles." Cus lets face it as meaningless as it was Obama's gun EO is a bolder move than most would expect from him. Well most outside of the club who are surprised they didn't wake up in FEMA camps yet and know he's just biding his time. The closer he waits to the election to declare himself emperor for life the less time we'll have to stop him.

 

[BotanyBoy]

but going forward registry at point of purchase.

And the hundreds of millions of guns left running around? LOL

Again, what problem do we have keeping track of cars?

Hundreds of them vanish every day never to be seen again.

You mean it might eventually help if we start keeping hot shit records. The ones that we miss don't worry about. Nail the fuckers to the wall when it gets found. Make the penalty for being caught with an illegal firearm so goddamn over the top that people won't do it.

Not even in 10 years.

Why do do that when you can just make people get a licence?

How? Unless we get fucking google glass that both tells cops who is in posession of a gun at all times and then instantly checks the database to see if they can hold one I don't see that solving much. The only thing licensing would do would be to tell cops to stop and frisk every person on the streets.

Licencing bro.....you don't have a licence when caught with gun? Prison.

We already have it 1/2 way done with CCW/CHL/CWP's. Then the guns themselves don't matter, either you have a licence and you can have/keep yer gunz or you don't and the popo can toss the book at you.

Interesting. I learned something.

Yep, it's fucked up. Can't paint your fucking mailbox without a permit but you can sell guns...lol

I rarely find them to be money grubbing.

LOL that's because you're ultra super omega (D) biased because (D) doesn't sit around dreaming up ways they can take money from you. They do that shit to people like me, farmers, truckers, folks who live in the sticks.

Granted it's better than (R) who's answer for everything is either "fuck you I got mine" or an ass beating and a 20 yr mandatory minimum.

But it doesn't change the fact that if you aren't in a chosen currently trendy industry? (D)'s gunning to do all they can to fuck you into the welfare house if not outright crush your business. The last thing they want you to do is go out and become independently wealthy...they fucking hate that shit with a passion.

 

[Sean Renaud]

The hundreds of millions of guns left running around will most likely eventually turn up. Good citizens will register them when they sell them or pass them on to friends and family, criminals will commit crimes, get caught and their weapons confiscated. The real question is how long it takes. Thirty years? Fifty?

Hundreds of them vanish but millions of them can be tracked down easy as fuck. Sounds like a quality service to me. Nothing is perfect mind you if zero goofs is the only thing that can be considered good enough we might as well stop trying to do things.

I accept it would take more than ten years. I'm betting north of fifty if we take the slow route.

As for licensing an individual I simply don't see how you think it would effect much of anything. Again, how would they know if you were licensed to carry a weapon at a glance? The only thing licensing a person would do would maybe limit sales if you made it clear you needed a license to purchase one for whatever reason. Oh and it might stop kids from going to the range but I don't care about people going to the range. Under what circumstances are the police going to check you for having a gun license? I mean if you're in the middle of a crime you already dun goofed. If not the police have no reason to be talking to you. Again unless we get Google Glass and the cops can just glance at you and see every registration you have.

If you can solve that part of the problem I'd be all on.

Taking money from people =/= money grubbing. It's only money grubbing if I'm the guy at the top of the totem pole raking in more than I'm putting out.

Whenever I ask for specifics on what businesses are being crushed everybody always shrugs. The best answer I've gotten is from you that perhaps they really need to work on consolidating offices so fewer people check the same shit and just add it to the general tax instead of fees on the individual. You seem to agree that most of what they DO is if not necessary, certainly not absurd. Just six different people want to do it for five different agencies and charge you separately.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I accept it would take more than ten years. I'm betting north of fifty if we take the slow route.

Why do that when you can have all gun owners registered in say 90 days?

As for licensing an individual I simply don't see how you think it would effect much of anything.

Well then why do we need for any kind of licences since they don't effect much of anything?

If you don't see the rational behind licencing people over their highly concealable inanimate objects then I can't help you.

Again, how would they know if you were licensed to carry a weapon at a glance?

There is no possible way that they can. But checking for a licence is a lot easier and more effective than checking a gun registration in a country with what 400 million unregistered guns? If the person is good the guns are good....if the person is not they go to jail.

Taking money from people =/= money grubbing. It's only money grubbing if I'm the guy at the top of the totem pole raking in more than I'm putting out.

Oh bullshit...fuck fuck regulations to corner markets and fuck your competition up because you own some (D)ick bag in Sac/DC is money grubbing too.

You seem to agree that most of what they DO is if not necessary, certainly not absurd. Just six different people want to do it for five different agencies and charge you separately.

NO I agree that their original intent is necessary...I agree that licencing is necessary. Most of what they do is more akin to mafia strong arming and extortion. They treat you like an ATM and if you don't pay protection money to them they will shut you down because you didn't pay your protection money.

No they won't break your legs but they will break your bank acct. in a heartbeat.

There is a fine line between regulation and racketeering behind an official badge. (D) practically LIVES on the racketeering side of that line while they put up non stop sales pitches about regulation.

Like the GOP talking about defense being important...they don't give 1 squirt of rat shit about defending America, they want a contract. ACA? (D) doesn't give a single solitary fuck about getting Americans HC, they wanted to force everyone to buy HC from their price gouging buddies who financed their campaigns. THey had their chance to prove their worth with hope and change and they proved to be nothing more than slightly lesser evil if you happen to be in an industry they are slightly less hostile towards than the Republicans.

 

[about_average]

Why would you need to fire a gun in order to save a life? I thought the mere presence of a gun was the deterrent.

Sometimes they are, but not always.

My point about the loophole is there must be some legally set boundaries. Guy with 50 guns at a show willing to sell should equal a vendor legally and more to the point if I am a vendor for the sake of argument and I know you're a terrorist and I don't care is there anything preventing me from "privately" selling you the gun? I mean it might look suspicious on paper if anybody really bothered to dig in but what stops this.

Nothing to prevent you knowingly selling to a terrorist (or anyone prohibited from owning one), but if you're caught you can be in some very deep shit.
Sort of like murder, nothing to prevent you from killing someone, but if you get caught...

 

[Sean Renaud]

What would having the gun owners register accomplish? Hell what even constitutes a gun owners in a world where they are not registered?

Most of the things we license we also register. I'm sure you can find an exception mind if I give you time. Either that or were license a particular activity. I can't fish or hunt without a pass and all that goodness. That is an activity that my participating in it right out the gate qualifies as a reason to ask to see my permission to do it. Unless open carry is an absolute law what business does a cop have to stop me, frisk me to find out if I have a weapon and then check to see if I'm licensed? (I mean aside from existing while black) With cars they generally DO leave you alone and as long as you don't fuck anytrhing up you could drive for a long time with no license and no problems. First time you so much as roll a stop sign you're likely to go to jail and get your car impounded but you can do it. But even then the car has to be registered and recently or your going to get pulled over for your tags not being up to date.

You can't help me see the rationale behind licensing people over their highly concealable objects because it fundamentally doesn't make sense by virtue of them being highly concealable and carriable. How far is it okay to carry a weapon if you don't have a license? Mind you even if you'd never get caught it's illegal for your 14 year old to move your car from your driveway to in front of your house so you can move the lawnmower. The cops most likely wouldn't unless they were already pissed but what's the deal? Is it okay in a case? A locked case? A car? Who needs the license? Does everybody who lives in the house? Hypothetically if someone breaks into my house and my pacifist GF decides to have a change of heart and shoots the guy is she going to prison for operating a weapon she's not licensed for?

How is it easier and more effective than checking gun registration with (an estimated 300 million) currently unregistered guns. You register them when they change hands. Easy as fucking shit. Same as you do with a car. Data base says Bot owns 6 hand guns, 7 shotguns, 2 rifles, a partridge and a pear tree. Their registration numbers are blah blah blah. Guns shows up in a crime you get in trouble. Sure some people are going to file them off but some people are going to get around any system.

Cornering markets is different as well. That's between the Dbag and the business owner. That would be those two people not Ds in general.

If you agree that licensing and regulation is necessary the rest is simply quibbling about how to do it best. You think it's done poorly and I can't disagre because my knowledge of your business comes almost exclusively through you and a bit from a friend's girlfriend's father who happens to bitch but mostly in Spanish. And I only understand him when he's saying something about 'bitches be crazy but you gotta love em.' Somehow 'she's just like her mother' is apparently so fucking universal that I've heard it in Spanish, Korean and German and my spanish is limited to counting to 10, milk and telling Mexicans I don't speak spanish. After that I'm pretty fucking fucked. The other two I know nothing.

No wait. Jaeger means hunter. Of titans!

 

[Boxlicker101]

I'm sure that with some good old American ingenuity and innovation, gun dealers can still sell to criminals and terrorists.

Eric Holder certainly figured out a way.

 

[BotanyBoy]

What would having the gun owners register accomplish?

Nothing more than registering a whole bunch of nothing.


Go ban some bayonet lugs or something

If you agree that licensing and regulation is necessary the rest is simply quibbling about how to do it best.

You're so full of (D) knob bobbing bullshit it's borderline comical.

Im convinced they could stand on the steps of the capital and collectively kill puppies and kittens with butter knives and blowtorches and you would defend it till the day you died.