F**k Christianity, the Bible, Everything!

[krissive69]

go read william stringfellow (who was gay) for a little perspective on christianity... particularly on the "powers and principalities" which include the institutional church. he may give you a fresh perspective on things....

 

[Stella_Omega]

go read william stringfellow (who was gay) for a little perspective on christianity... particularly on the "powers and principalities" which include the institutional church. he may give you a fresh perspective on things....

I'm always curious when people make suggestions like yours. What fresh perspective do you think your advisee will get, and what good will it do them?

 

[krissive69]

Well... maybe none.

But the origional poster was struggling w/ the apparent incompatability of her bisexuality w/ the Christian-perspective of her grandmother (I'm sure its more complex than this of course). Stringfellow did not not see his own sexual preference as incompatible in any way w/ the Christian message, and considered the institutional church as fallen in much the same was as all institutions are (though called for something different). From this reading, the poster might see her faith is a different light... perhaps one in which her sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with the Christian message... and given the emphasis of the Gospel on the marginalized and oppressed (the rich and comfortable do not generally see the "good news" as good), she might even see it as "well aligned".... many do, incliuding the married gay couples in my own Parish. Rather than abandoning her faith, she might find ways of living it out differently... perhaps within the institutional church... perhaps not. She might even grow to see her grandmother in a different light altogether.

I'm just suggesting that her bisexuality is not the problem here... a twisted reading of the Gospel by her grandmother and many instututional churches is ... and Stringfellow would likely have agreed. That's a bit much too hope for I'm guessing... I can only make the suggestion... who can say where it might lead?

 

[Stella_Omega]

Thank you, krissive69.

there needs to be some kind of "church-anon" group to help people who have to live with a loved one that is intensely and ignorantly religious-- like al-anon for people who have to live with an alcoholic.

 

[Firmhanded_Daddy]

Well... maybe none.

But the origional poster was struggling w/ the apparent incompatability of her bisexuality w/ the Christian-perspective of her grandmother (I'm sure its more complex than this of course). Stringfellow did not not see his own sexual preference as incompatible in any way w/ the Christian message, and considered the institutional church as fallen in much the same was as all institutions are (though called for something different). From this reading, the poster might see her faith is a different light... perhaps one in which her sexuality has absolutely nothing to do with the Christian message... and given the emphasis of the Gospel on the marginalized and oppressed (the rich and comfortable do not generally see the "good news" as good), she might even see it as "well aligned".... many do, incliuding the married gay couples in my own Parish. Rather than abandoning her faith, she might find ways of living it out differently... perhaps within the institutional church... perhaps not. She might even grow to see her grandmother in a different light altogether.

I'm just suggesting that her bisexuality is not the problem here... a twisted reading of the Gospel by her grandmother and many instututional churches is ... and Stringfellow would likely have agreed. That's a bit much too hope for I'm guessing... I can only make the suggestion... who can say where it might lead?

I'm totally going to have to side with this ideal. I have not read the book in question, and I am not homosexual or bi, but I have seriously found the formalized religious institution as the problem, not the religion itself.

My belief or lack of belief in the words of the bible aside it's a good story. The problem with most faith (I can't speak for hinduism and other such faiths because I know little to nothing about them) is that the structure was founded on the idea that rich educated people pass down knowledge that only they understand because they wrote it, and the masses could not even read, let alone interpret it for themselves.

Organized faith breeds spiritual laziness. Someone stands up in front of a group of people and tells them what a particular line of the bible means to them and most people take it as reality. I respect those who explore faith for themselves, as that is what it should be about.

I am married to someone who is strongly baptist, where as I am agnostic. Religion does not cause a problem in our relationship because I respect her faith and encourage her spiritual growth. I have even gone with her to certain events. She respects the fact that I do not hold the same faith as she does, and that if I were to find a faith it would have to be on my own.

 

[krissive69]

Part of the struggle with Christianity in particular, is that one of its core, foundational precepts is the idea of community. The notion of a "lone Christian" is a contradiction in terms. That means that a community must come together... warts and all... to live out its life. This is just hard, and there is nothing about a Christian community that insulates it from the same struggles that all communites have, including the inherent falleness of institutions... their vulnerability to oppression, indignity, hate, and every other problem we are capable of. The truely remarkable thing about this from the believer's perspective, is that God chooses to work through such fallen people and instututions (first Isreal, then the Chruch in all its ugly manifistations) to achieve His aims in His own good time. He never said it would be easy, and in fact, we were told it would be hard. But, we have also been given some help... if the community is willing to discern that "still small voice". How does it work? There is a bit of mystery to the whole thing....

Seems a little odd to have this thread on Lit... but there you go... its just another community....

 

[Stella_Omega]

The idea of a "lone gay person" is also a bit of a contradiction. And I do not blame any GLBT person for leaving the community where they've been shunned and going elsewhere to make it work.

One less member of the congregation, but one life lead more wholly as far as OP is concerned. None of us need our friends to make our lives a bigger struggle than we now have.

 

[YANKEE DAN]

People who believe Jesus didn't exist are nuts, or they just don't understand how history works. The argument is ridiculous, they say "Well, if you take away all religious writing not many references for Jesus exist from contemporaries."

You know what? If you take away all political writing about George Washington not many references exist do they? Whats more any of the dozens of contemporaries of Jesus who wrote about him are today considered religious writings. It's a way of stupid people using semantics to believe whatever they want to believe, just like they claim Christians do.

Jesus was only a small time Jewish prophet in his lifetime, considering this the amount of evidence for his existence is staggering.

Back on subject though, you can be gay and Christian no problem. It is a central tenet of the religion that all people sin so even if it is a sin so what? God already told you you are gonna sin to your face! I had this gay friend of mine who kept asking me how I justified sleeping with men and being christian, and I finally told him, Dude if sucking dick is your biggest sin then you are a fucking pussy.