Fires in Oz

[Bramblethorn]

Let us hope that there is no shouting of "Alahu Akbar" on the wind, then.

Sorry to say your suspicions are true. There are reports of Muslim involvement in the bushfires:

National Imams Council urges all imams, mosques, Islamic centres etc. to update attendees about the fire situation and remind them of their role to support people affected by the fires.

Muslim group drives six hours to cook for bushfire victims, then does it again

Another Muslim group drives 200km to deliver 20 pallets of water bottles to bushfire affected areas

United Muslims of Australia donates $10k to NSW Rural Fire Service

Afghan community group donates $18252 to RFS (not specifically identified as Muslim, but Hazaras usually are)

...now, unless and until we have something more than "a water tank burst and there's no information on why", could we maybe leave out the gratuitous Islamophobia? My Muslim neighbours and colleagues are breathing the same smoke as the rest of us.

(Rain here for the last couple of days, but it hasn't washed the smoke out of the air.)

 

[Athalia]

I am so sorry to hear about what Australia is going through right now. I have just returned from the house of some friends of mine who live in Yuba City, California now. They used to live in Paradise, but lost everything when their entire town burned to the ground because of the Camp fire in Northern California a year ago. There's really no town left at all; I saw it a few months after the fire, and it was heartbreaking. I hope and pray that communities in Australia will be spared that agony.

 

[Rustyoznail]

I am so sorry to hear about what Australia is going through right now. I have just returned from the house of some friends of mine who live in Yuba City, California now. They used to live in Paradise, but lost everything when their entire town burned to the ground because of the Camp fire in Northern California a year ago. There's really no town left at all; I saw it a few months after the fire, and it was heartbreaking. I hope and pray that communities in Australia will be spared that agony.

Thanks for your thoughts Athalia. It's not looking good for some small towns. It is heartbreaking.

I saw the news about the California fires, and felt the same as you now, I guess.

The communities will recover. In time.

Cheers

 

[Bramblethorn]

Air purifiers are hard to come by at the moment. My partner is driving across town to pick one up this afternoon, after a lot of searching to find a store that had the right one in stock. (You need a proper HEPA filter for bushfire smoke; cheap filters are useless.)

At least my work is pretty sensible about health and safety stuff. We don't usually let new staff work from home, but I asked my bosses to make an exception for bad smoke days and they've okayed it.

 

[Haulover]

My sister and her family live in Oz - and says it's frightening.

My other sister and her family live in Auckland, New Zealand - and she can see and smell the smoke from the Australian fires all the way in NZ!!

 

[Rustyoznail]

From the Vic Emergency website

“ 41 U.S. firefighters are already in Victoria, with an additional 70 firefighters from Canada and the U.S. expected to join on 8 January.

In Swifts Creek, Cobungra and Anglers Rest, they have been working with local teams to re-establish access and assess impact.
Thank you for helping us in our time of need.”

Yep. Thanks

 

[TarnishedPenny]

From the Vic Emergency website

“ 41 U.S. firefighters are already in Victoria, with an additional 70 firefighters from Canada and the U.S. expected to join on 8 January.

In Swifts Creek, Cobungra and Anglers Rest, they have been working with local teams to re-establish access and assess impact.
Thank you for helping us in our time of need.”

Yep. Thanks

You're welcome (blushing 'cause I ain't there myself). I do think however that we're going to need to start thinking globally on things like this, Helping one's neighbour is going to become the new norm.

I must admit to a bit of surprise however. Accounts are of course hard to follow at this distance, but it seems that your armed forces have been deployed comparatively recently. Am I wrong about that? If not, is that normal?

 

[Handley_Page]

Sorry to say your suspicions are true. There are reports of Muslim involvement in the bushfires:

National Imams Council urges all imams, mosques, Islamic centres etc. to update attendees about the fire situation and remind them of their role to support people affected by the fires.

Muslim group drives six hours to cook for bushfire victims, then does it again

Another Muslim group drives 200km to deliver 20 pallets of water bottles to bushfire affected areas

United Muslims of Australia donates $10k to NSW Rural Fire Service

Afghan community group donates $18252 to RFS (not specifically identified as Muslim, but Hazaras usually are)

...now, unless and until we have something more than "a water tank burst and there's no information on why", could we maybe leave out the gratuitous Islamophobia? My Muslim neighbours and colleagues are breathing the same smoke as the rest of us.

(Rain here for the last couple of days, but it hasn't washed the smoke out of the air.)

I wonder why such charitable endeavours are not quite known to the general public at large. . . .

You're welcome (blushing 'cause I ain't there myself). I do think however that we're going to need to start thinking globally on things like this, Helping one's neighbour is going to become the new norm.

I must admit to a bit of surprise however. Accounts are of course hard to follow at this distance, but it seems that your armed forces have been deployed comparatively recently. Am I wrong about that? If not, is that normal?

Amen to that.

 

[ishtat]

I wonder why such charitable endeavours are not quite known to the general public at large. . . .

Fire and floods, emotional despair with a tinge of tragedy make great TV visuals. Hard work, a helping hand and ordinary folks charity not so much. But if you can put a 'Celebrity' front and centre, then mega coverage.

The Semitic faiths, Islam and Judaism have a great record of charity/alms giving in Oz and the church groups and Sally Annies have done well too.

Morrison brought in the defence forces because the Federal government was being hammered in the media (possibly a tad unfairly) for doing next to nothing.

12 months ago they rejected a budget request for extra airborne water tankers and halted increases for local firies budgets. Then waited for months after the fires took hold before they did anything. And the PM went on Holiday. Not good optics at all.

 

[jaF0]

Yeah. You gotta wonder how a water tank that huge just blows up/collapses, without the nearby one getting damaged at all.

Could've been a structural defect, or lack of maintenance, or a bunch of other things

Tanks rupturing isn't exactly a common occurrence, but they are by no means unheard of.

Fire and floods, emotional despair with a tinge of tragedy make great TV visuals. Hard work, a helping hand and ordinary folks charity not so much. But if you can put a 'Celebrity' front and centre, then mega coverage.

The Irwins have been in the news.

 

[ElectricBlue]

You're welcome (blushing 'cause I ain't there myself). I do think however that we're going to need to start thinking globally on things like this, Helping one's neighbour is going to become the new norm.

I must admit to a bit of surprise however. Accounts are of course hard to follow at this distance, but it seems that your armed forces have been deployed comparatively recently. Am I wrong about that? If not, is that normal?

The great Australian tradition, in times of crisis, is to muck in and help your mate. We're seeing repeated stories of volunteer truck convoys trucking in feed stock, supplies, fuel, diggers and bulldozers. It happens all the time, and is often organised quicker than through the "formal" channels.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01...upplies-to-east-gippsland-fire-zones/11841874

The armed forces generally deploy only into extreme declared emergencies, often more towards the end to assist mop up. The main reason for that is that bushfire and flood management etc are firstly state government responsibilities, whereas the armed services are federal, so military deployment is the highest level of escalation. Old Scomo took a bit of a battering about his holiday, but that was more bad optics than bad management - first line emergency response is from another tier of government.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-06/dead-animals-bushfire-biosecurity-emergency/11843428

 

[BelleCanzuto]

You're welcome (blushing 'cause I ain't there myself). I do think however that we're going to need to start thinking globally on things like this, Helping one's neighbour is going to become the new norm.

I think you're right about that. It's often noted, during the California wildfire season, that international firefighters assist. Often noted, but usually in passing. But with the recent overlap in seasons between northern and southern hemispheres, that's going to get harder to do. I dunno, maybe the UN can do something useful and spin up an international fire fighting force.

Fire and floods, emotional despair with a tinge of tragedy make great TV visuals. Hard work, a helping hand and ordinary folks charity not so much. But if you can put a 'Celebrity' front and centre, then mega coverage.

The Semitic faiths, Islam and Judaism have a great record of charity/alms giving in Oz and the church groups and Sally Annies have done well too.

Yes, unfortunately, your points are so true. Let a celebrity build a house or traipse around in a boat during a flood, and you'd think they were the only people there. But the thousands of volunteers, giving up vacation days to go to disaster areas get used as background footage.

One question though, who/what are "Sally Annies"?

 

[ElectricBlue]

IOne question though, who/what are "Sally Annies"?

Salvos, the Salvation Army. For a very long time, probably Australia's best emergency care organisation; well run, well respected, and without a separate political agenda. Like the Red Cross in many ways. Their legacy goes back to the English Sally Annies, who were around in Victorian times.

 

[ElectricBlue]

Yes, unfortunately, your points are so true. Let a celebrity build a house or traipse around in a boat during a flood, and you'd think they were the only people there. But the thousands of volunteers, giving up vacation days to go to disaster areas get used as background footage.

And then there are people like this:

https://www.pedestrian.tv/news/celeste-barber-new-donation-total/

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The armed forces generally deploy only into extreme declared emergencies, often more towards the end to assist mop up. The main reason for that is that bushfire and flood management etc are firstly state government responsibilities, whereas the armed services are federal, so military deployment is the highest level of escalation.

We have the same principle here, but it does seem that our provinces are more willing to ask for help than your states and territories. That's just me, admittedly unaware of the situation and whether or not more boots on the ground are required. Whatever - prayers for you all down there.

 

[ElectricBlue]

We have the same principle here, but it does seem that our provinces are more willing to ask for help than your states and territories. That's just me, admittedly unaware of the situation and whether or not more boots on the ground are required. Whatever - prayers for you all down there.

That's the key - our fire services (even though the rural services are volunteer manned) are very professionally run, and know what they're doing. When the services are called in, it's usually to bring in assets that otherwise don't exist, like the recent naval evacuation from the south coast of NSW, and the heavy earth-moving machinery of the Army construction corps to dig mass graves for dead animals. Every state has Emergency Response Plans, which kick support in, in a controlled order (usually).

 

[JamesMiehoff]

Having lived in Colorado downwind of some of the fires there, my heart goes out to all of you living through this. There were days we would go out after work or in the morning and sweep a half inch to a full inch or more of ash off our cars. My wife suffers from occasional bouts of asthma and it was a bad time for her.

It reminded me of a friend that went to work in LA. He could only afford a modest house way the fuck up some back woods canyon road. The first week he was there, he rented a Bushmaster and cleared the land behind his house all the way back to the edge of his property line. A week later the sheriff stopped by and wrote him a ticket for $500 for "destroying the habitat of the endangered freckled kangaroo mouse". He fumed about that for a week until a wildfire swept up his street. His was the only house standing. He went down to the courthouse and happily paid the $500. He told the sheriff that given the circumstances paying the $500 was cheap compared to replacing the house and that if there were any of those mice up there, they were now barbequed anyway. He eventually moved, but not before two more wildfires swept up the street burning most of his neighbors out each time.

James

 

[eroticstoryspinner]

Thanks for your thoughts Athalia. It's not looking good for some small towns. It is heartbreaking.

I saw the news about the California fires, and felt the same as you now, I guess.

The communities will recover. In time.

Cheers

Talking to my Aussie friends they have related that the situation was made worse by a long wet spell causing a lot of under burden the coupled with drought conditions. That also the government , (much like California) cut corners on controlled burns. All of them also mentioned that a lot of the initial fires were arson related. Except for the last, like in the States there seems to be plenty of egg to go around for everyone's faces. Praying for rain. Which, since its still summer there right now, may be a while as I understand it.

 

[oggbashan]

Some of the Australian reserve forces are conflicted about their call-ups because some are volunteer firefighters too.

The volunteer firefighters are unpaid and are all losing money because they can't do their usual work. The government compensation does not cover the money they are losing while they risk their lives.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Salvos, the Salvation Army. For a very long time, probably Australia's best emergency care organisation; well run, well respected, and without a separate political agenda.

This is... not a universally held opinion of the Salvation Army.

It's complicated: the SA do a great deal of important charitable work, but they are a religious organisation with beliefs that go beyond the charity, and sometimes those beliefs do manifest as a political agenda.

I'm not going to go a-googling tonight, but the main example I can think of is that the SA has repeatedly lobbied against giving queer people equal rights. They opposed legalisation of homosexuality in NZ in the 1980s, they opposed marriage equality in the USA in 2012 and lost social services contracts in San Francisco because they refused to give equal benefits to employees in same-sex partnerships. People in same-sex relationships have been told they can't access SA services unless they break up with their partners, yada yada.

Oh, and in 2012 their media director in Victoria (where I live) said that gay and lesbian people should be put to death. :-/

Also, like just about every religious institution in Australia, they have a ghastly record of wide-scale child abuse, after which they apparently resorted to legal technicalities to avoid compensating some victims.

To give them their due, they've moderated a bit over the years. They've apologised for some of this stuff, and they kept pretty quiet during the Australian marriage equality vote. But they are still involved in political lobbying in an attempt to secure religious exemptions from anti-discrimination laws.

They're certainly not all bad; I think there are a lot of lovely people in the SA who are trying hard to help everybody. But there are plenty of folk who have all too much reason to look askance at the SA and direct donations elsewhere.

 

[jaF0]

Yeah, I wasn't going to get started on SA, but 'no agenda' is not part of their vocabulary.

 

[Rustyoznail]

A cheap restoration project...

Some of the Australian reserve forces are conflicted about their call-ups because some are volunteer firefighters too.

The volunteer firefighters are unpaid and are all losing money because they can't do their usual work. The government compensation does not cover the money they are losing while they risk their lives.

The Feds, basically as a face saving idea, are now paying volunteers up to $6000 depending on how long they’ve been on the front. Also, if you’re a fire fighting volunteer, you’re exempt from the call up if you want.

Anyway, my sisters farm got a bit crisp, but basically survived. They lost an old caravan, a couple of out buildings but nothing major. Lucky.

TXRad or Chloe - here’s a boat to restore. Going cheap!

https://i.imgur.com/6VlsGqx.jpg

 

[UsuallyPresent]

The Feds, basically as a face saving idea, are now paying volunteers up to $6000 depending on how long they’ve been on the front. Also, if you’re a fire fighting volunteer, you’re exempt from the call up if you want.

Anyway, my sisters farm got a bit crisp, but basically survived. They lost an old caravan, a couple of out buildings but nothing major. Lucky.

TXRad or Chloe - here’s a boat to restore. Going cheap!

https://i.imgur.com/6VlsGqx.jpg

Looks like the cousin of an onion. AKA, a leek.

 

[ChloeTzang]

Looks like the cousin of an onion. AKA, a leek.

Guess it doesn’t come with a wood-burning stove in it anymore huh?

 

[ElectricBlue]

This is... not a universally held opinion of the Salvation Army.

It's complicated: the SA do a great deal of important charitable work, but they are a religious organisation with beliefs that go beyond the charity, and sometimes those beliefs do manifest as a political agenda.

Points taken.

I see what they do do in terms of getting aid out to the needy as a positive thing - and in that sense they get on with it and do it well. But you're right - what an organisation doesn't do or won't do is also a factor in how you interact with them. But we live in a country with freedom of religion and freedom of speech (and with that comes discrimination), so what do you do? Ban belief?