First three (early draft) stories posted

[AinslieCaswell]

ANDDDD while Keith requires no defense...

So, why offer up a defense? Are we still talking about these people?

Listen, you can see me as combative if you want. All I did was tell a couple people who were blowing hot air to sit back down. I completely understand that's how ooooold forums tend to operate (reddit, fanfiction boards, etc), but that's not what I came here for. They're frequent posters, are USED to posting on EVERY little THING, and so they do. Cesspools happen quickly in these environments, and I don't have time to moderate that type of stuff while I'm trying to get actual work done. It's just that simple. Anyone who doesn't want to read what I have to offer, or only wants to post condescending combative-language diatribes at me, can move along.

Additionally, as a female, I am a target for certain types of PMs that have nothing to do with my work. I have already received multiple private messages asking for sexy time (which I had to close off, as may have already been noticed), and 1 troll-y hate message via my website. Those are the two ends of the spectrum we often have the deal with. Being firm, publicly, sometimes puts a stop to it. Sometimes it doesn't. Still, I do my best to walk that line.

... for someone asking for help.

I find this to be a problem in multiple message-board type environments. If you see others as those who are asking for "help," we will not be on the same page.

Someone who needs "help" is likely someone you see as beneath you. Whether you want to admit it or not, this is a non-professional peer-to-peer sharing website. No one is above anybody, particularly when you take all the categories and sections into consideration. That's why I posted drafts for review. It's why the website says it expects users to reciprocate feedback. Please give if you get.

Therefore, I don't care (and neither should any of you) what your credentials or experiences are, inside or outside of this site, and everyone should stay in their own lane. Don't like the narrative? Move along. Don't like mom stories? Stay out of that fetish section. I saw people typing just to see themselves post, and it didn't contribute anything valuable regarding the work itself. I said something, and that's that.

My follow-up responses to everyone else should more than illustrate I am capable of having rational exchanges with people who contribute actual feedback of the contents of the text.

Opening up a story, seeing that the narrative turns you off, then going to the trouble of commenting just to say you dislike it (and so will a bunch of others!) makes about as much sense to me as going into a fetish forum and saying, "I don't like furry stories, and neither do, like 70% other people!" You're not the target market. Move along.

So, are we done with this topic? Thank you.

 

[KeithD]

I'm certainly through with you.

Don't know why you posted this thread (other than to draw attention to yourself). You obviously already know it all.

 

[AinslieCaswell]

the sex just wasn’t very sexy; there were high details of each nuance of the mechanics, but almost no sensory or emotional detail—

I hear you, but I find this very subjective and based on preference. The language that people want in their erotic text is very specific. If you're someone who looks for language that describes sensations, and you didn't find that in this story... then I see your disappointment. Others, who thrive on anticipation/teasing, sexy talk, physical descriptions, have been receptive to the material when I've read it for them. It depends on what you want, and what you're looking for.

However, I’d imagine that a performance could supplement all that with gesture, tone and phrasing to produce a very sexy scene.

And that's precisely what these are being written to supplement.

I hate things like ur and fyi, and DTF, being used either here or on social media on the assumption I will know what it means.

It's one thing if you don't like it in formal text, but it's not going away online. There's a reason I didn't define it in the story, and it's because it only appears in the dialogue. People speak this way, and they wouldn't define it in real conversation. I wouldn't have left it that way if it had appeared as part of the detailed narrative. It's a very minute detail to the story, and any negative response to it I'm sure will be heavily influenced by the age of the reader. If my editor has an adverse reaction to it, and has a slick suggestion for defining it that doesn't come off as pandering, I'd be happy to consider it.

To be honest, the piece I looked over looks more like a script than a story.

Thank you, your notes have also been appreciated and helpful. I do come from, mostly, a performance background, and my immediate work of vocal performance is undoubtedly influencing the writing style. As mentioned, I wrote the first piece by accident, which is why the narrative style happened. I didn't intend to write these as if I was speaking TO someone. Then, they developed that way. As I began to pilot them with small audiences, and work through them in editing, I'm finding they may work as a series. I hope to find a place to mount them for live performance within the year.

 

[GroverLang]

https://www.ainsliecaswell.com/

 

[gordo12]

You must have a very lonely life.

So let's get something straight. Whatever emails, come-ons or other approaches you've had, didn't come from me. So save your psycho "B" angst for your psychiatrist.

This is a fiction READING site. Your stories are scripts. They don't READ well.They don't belong. They suck. Even someone as obtuse as you are should be able to understand that. Or do I need to define the word READ to you.

First time I've ever used the ignore button. Feels good!

 

[AinslieCaswell]

^ yet another version of, "you were too fat to fuck anyway."

If you want to make up your own set of pretend-rules to play by, go to 4chan.

 

[KeithD]

https://www.ainsliecaswell.com/

I'm sure that's the whole point of this thread, but I don't see the need to divert from Literotica to go there. It's all "make a splash" performance art to promote herself.

 

[GroverLang]

I'm sure that's the whole point of this thread, but I don't see the need to divert from Literotica to go there. It's all "make a splash" performance art to promote herself.

Having looked at her site and her bio profile on here I agree entirely with you, Keith. I think she came on here with a desire for, an assumption she would receive, applause but it hasn’t worked out.

 

[AinslieCaswell]

Having looked at her site and her bio profile on here I agree entirely with you, Keith. I think she came on here with a desire for, an assumption she would receive, applause but it hasn’t worked out.

Thanks. That must indicate my brand is working, at least.

That's not the case, but I'm sure you don't expect me to say anything different. I am simply a working professional who is managing a brand image. This is what that looks like. Everyone else seems to have links in their signatures. Mine is there as well. The end.

I did not and do not, however, desire hostility and empty words.

As has been evidenced, I am happy to engage with those who have quality things to say. I am here to improve my work. It's the same reason I have an editor, but that is just one set of eyes.

I brand myself across platforms because it's easier to manage and link together, and smarter. However, given this "reception" I'm happy to remove links if it cuts down on the outright hostility. I didn't anticipate this, though I probably should have.

 

[AwkwardMD]

There seems to be a big gap between what you have in your head, as far as the tone you were going for and the intended effects, and the results on the page. It's hard to reconcile the two.

Different mediums have different strengths, and although the underlying storytelling could be identical you would need to rework this piece significantlyfor it to work either as a script (that anyone but you could read) or as a story. To me, right now, this doesn't work as either. The best works of fiction always use the strengths of their medium to leverage audience involvement to some degree or another. Pick one.

In the future, I think what you want are beta readers and not general feedback. A beta reader would probably have a better understanding of your intentions (because beta readers also tend to have some level of personal interaction), and also probably wouldn't intentionally misinterpret some aspect of your work for the sake of a sick 'Gotcha' that totally leaves you laid up for weeks in the Burn ward.

 

[AinslieCaswell]

There seems to be a big gap between what you have in your head, as far as the tone you were going for and the intended effects, and the results on the page. It's hard to reconcile the two.

I see that being especially true for the earliest pieces I wrote, which were "everything" followed by "own it" I think. While "Cheap Shot" is still in its roughest form, it has probably received the most attention out of these three. I have two more that are unfinished, and I'm curious to see if the voice , per se, becomes more clear as a move forward.

In the future, I think what you want are beta readers and not general feedback. A beta reader would probably have a better understanding of your intentions...

I did make a Patreon in the past several months, at the suggestion of some followers, and that's sort of what the purpose of it was meant to be. So far, users seem to be there mostly for photos (go figure) so it may take some time for any interest to take hold on the other material. Everyone wants to see/hear things live, which can be frustrating.

...wouldn't intentionally misinterpret some aspect of your work for the sake of a sick 'Gotcha' that totally leaves you laid up for weeks in the Burn ward.

That's precisely the kind of thing I dislike, and am trying to avoid. Thanks for putting it in words.

 

[AwkwardMD]

A performed piece, live or recorded, needs a different style of voice than you would give to a first person POV story. They're not dissimilar, but the details that make one work inhibit the other. I write scripts for a woman who does erotic audios, and it is a whole other skillset to be able to convey information that way.

Performance seems to be the goal, and more power to you with that, so I would either ditch the efforts to keep your work readable OR commit to working on the same project twice in parallel (once for readability and once for performance).

 

[ElectricBlue]

Listen, you can see me as combative if you want. All I did was tell a couple people who were blowing hot air to sit back down. I completely understand that's how ooooold forums tend to operate (reddit, fanfiction boards, etc), but that's not what I came here for. They're frequent posters, are USED to posting on EVERY little THING, and so they do. Cesspools happen quickly in these environments, and I don't have time to moderate that type of stuff while I'm trying to get actual work done.

Literotica is one of the oldest, if not the oldest, erotica writing sites in the world. Because of that it has a certain dynamic, and for the community here, that dynamic works.

When someone comes in expecting something different, something that better suits what they want to do, then may I (condescendingly) suggest that maybe, just maybe, you could have felt the waters a little more gently, a little more... you say you know how these "old" forums work - so "aware" is a good word.

Because what you've done now is nailed a belligerent banner to your mast, you've introduced the cesspool, you've brought the argument to the table (but not really, because you're no different to the last person who arrived, chip on shoulder, ballet slippers on, making a grand arrival) because you barged straight in, you didn't bother sussing out who the main "players" were. If you had observed from the side seats for a little while, you would have seen that in this Feedback Forum there are maybe a dozen regular contributors, maybe twenty. But the point is, not many. So you could have known who your feedback was likely to come from.

You're now going out of your way to characterise us old farts as blow-hards, so oooold school, so last year, so last century, and that's fine. We are. But we are also are part of a tiny group of writers who choose to engage with other writers, who choose to give of their time. This Forum, and the Authors Hangout, are probably the most active "writers" groups on Literotica (along with some peaceful poets), and you're already seeing allegiances, defences, call it what you like, circling of wagons even, because other members of our community, my community, know who we are. Some respect us, some tolerate us, some can't stand the write of us, some turn the page immediately, but others say, "You know what, that KeithD, he knows his publishing shit, and the Chicago Style Manual," and, "Fucking EB, will he just stop about buttons and Oz for a while, but sweet god, that Suzie..."

What I'm trying to say is, there are personalities around here, there are folk freely giving, and you can be part of that if you choose. Or not. Sure, we can be pricks, we can be opinionated, we can be assholes, we can disagree. But one thing we won't be is dismissive. Unless you are. Your call.

Peace, sister. And no, that's not sexist, that's inviting you into the family .

Ainslie looked around, wondering whether to climb on board...

 

[AinslieCaswell]

... OR commit to working on the same project twice in parallel (once for readability and once for performance).

I would say that is the goal, yes. I essentially have a staged format loosely formed. Meanwhile, the writing process is continuing to make readable versions to go alongside the staged version, for whatever population wants to consume them. Those who prefer audio or live performance, would seek those out.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I hear you, but I find this very subjective and based on preference. The language that people want in their erotic text is very specific. If you're someone who looks for language that describes sensations, and you didn't find that in this story... then I see your disappointment. Others, who thrive on anticipation/teasing, sexy talk, physical descriptions, have been receptive to the material when I've read it for them. It depends on what you want, and what you're looking for.

Ok. So, if you hear me, then no need to be defensive; the nuances of your stylistic preferences aren't coming across as they're mired in the mechanics, which in and of themselves are quite flat. That's not unusual feedback and it's quite neutral. I personally thrive on anticipation, teasing, sexy talk and physical descriptions and found them quite lacking in Cheap Shot. Because I thrive on them, I put in the effort needed to write them into my stories and consider critical feedback, positive and negative. Since those elements, in addition to plot, are important to me, personally, if someone gave me such feedback that there was a disconnect between my expectations and my story (or play, or audio thing, or opera, or TV script, or starship blueprints or whatnot), then I'd workshop it until it worked rather than arguing about the subjective quality of my preferences. If you approach feedback with the attitude that "the language of what people want in their erotic text is very specific" then there's very little value to any feedback except from people who like exactly the same things you like, in which case, it's probably best to just ask those people.

In the future, I think what you want are beta readers and not general feedback.

I think that's an excellent point, AMD.
OP, if you take these three pieces to the "Editor's Forum" with a post requesting a beta reader, I'm sure you'll find someone willing to work with you. Best of luck.

 

[MetaBob]

You must have a very lonely life.

So let's get something straight. Whatever emails, come-ons or other approaches you've had, didn't come from me. So save your psycho "B" angst for your psychiatrist.

This is a fiction READING site. Your stories are scripts. They don't READ well.They don't belong. They suck. Even someone as obtuse as you are should be able to understand that. Or do I need to define the word READ to you.

Wow, it took just over two days for the feces to fly. It's a regular occurrence on these fora, but then the new arrival's bewilderment is more strongly dealt back than usual. Good on Ainslie for sticking up for her writing, which deserves it.

When this happened with a similar request of mine a couple weeks ago, I was specific in laying out what I already thought might be perceived as "wrong" and asked for something more. No one should've had the expectation that I would make substantive and stylistic changes to a finished piece based on nothing more than their personal preference, especially when much "criticism" directed at a different piece(!) was prefaced by statements like "It is a terrible test" or "I hit the back button after half a page" (much less "read the first sentence and back clicked straight away"), followed by obvious misstatements, made-up quotes, and outright insults. The story came out the way I wanted it to, and a lot of people seem to like it that way. 'Nuff said. I got a little substantive feedback, which I learned from, remain thankful for, said so at the time much as Ainslie has, and have used in that piece and others since, but a whole lot more crap, which should *NOT* be expected to come with the territory. This is not a monkey house. Shouldn't be, anyway. Maybe that's just more personal preference.

A piece like that written in the style of a private-eye novelist like John D. MacDonald or Robert B. Parker doesn't need to be rewritten to someone else's cookie-cutter standards. Creativity and originality, voice, are vital. Likewise, I’m not going to advocate rewriting an Ursula K. LeGuin piece in the style of Elmore Leonard. Someone else is welcome to try, of course. The result might even be good.

Speaking of Ursula, a hilarious article written about her has been a good ground for me lately. Her sort of writing was unappreciated when she began but she persisted, bless her, and the world is richer for it. A brief excerpt:

I don’t have a gun and I don’t have even one wife and my sentences tend to go on and on and on, with all this syntax in them. Ernest Hemingway would have died rather than have syntax. Or semicolons. I use a whole lot of half-assed semicolons; there was one of them just now; that was a semicolon after “semicolons,” and another one after “now.”

Not that I'm advocating being unreadable, but that's not a problem with what I've read of Ainslie's writing (or scriptwriting, if you prefer). It's good. People clearly like it. Not everyone, but then not everyone needs to. It's fiction and it's readable despite vehement bloviations to the contrary. If that counts as "applause," then she has mine.

 

[AinslieCaswell]

Ok. So, if you hear me, then no need to be defensive; the nuances of your stylistic preferences aren't coming across as they're mired in the mechanics, which in and of themselves are quite flat.

No no, I didn't find your feedback offensive at all. I also wasn't trying to be argumentative. I thought my phrasing of understanding your frustration, given what I understood your preferences to be, said that. You've now elaborated on what your overall preferences are, and I understand better.

To elaborate further on my end: I've also piloted this as live readings, and see positive responses from listeners. I likely add more to the performance than certain readers get from a written copy. You're just one of the people confirming that.

There's a certain percentage of readers who do not appreciate my mechanical approach to descriptors, which is kind of what you are describing. The disconnect, which exists only in my head, is what I bring to it in the live performance. Which is why some here are saying, leave it for that only. That's part of why you feel something is lacking. It make sense.

...then she has mine.

Thank you for saying all that. Very appreciated, truly.

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

No no, I didn't find your feedback offensive at all. I also wasn't trying to be argumentative. I thought my phrasing of understanding your frustration, given what I understood your preferences to be, said that. You've now elaborated on what your overall preferences are, and I understand better.

There's a certain percentage of readers who do not appreciate my mechanical approach to descriptors, which is kind of what you are describing. The disconnect, which exists only in my head, is what I bring to it in the live performance. Which is why some here are saying, leave it for that only. That's part of why you feel something is lacking. It make sense.

Gotcha. I appreciate you taking the time to reply to me and I apologize for misunderstanding your response as defensive. I think that my take away in reading Cheap Shot was that your performance style would bring out the things that I, personally, thought were lacking when reading it as a story; I think we’re on the same page that that’s where it’s headed, and that in performance, it will work well. Again, best of luck.

Wow, it took just over two days for the feces to fly. It's a regular occurrence on these fora, but then the new arrival's bewilderment is more strongly dealt back than usual. Good on Ainslie for sticking up for her writing, which deserves it.

When this happened with a similar request of mine a couple weeks ago, I was specific in laying out what I already thought might be perceived as "wrong" and asked for something more....

It's fiction and it's readable despite vehement bloviations to the contrary. If that counts as "applause," then she has mine.

I’m glad that you linked AMD’s review thread, Bob. I remember that frenzy of, what I considered unmerited, unwarranted vitriol combined with, and in some cases outweighing, the actual feedback to your work. Some of it was even to the degree of the “pot calling the kettle black”, i.e., browbeating you for the same issues that other writers have in their own output. From all of my interactions with you, I’ve thought you to be civil and engaged, helpful and receptive, and I thought your response to highly critical feedback was exemplary for us all: take what works for you and politely discard the rest.

We don’t have to all agree, and we don’t have to all get along, but it doesn’t do anything for anyone to sling mud, except to increase the drama and create artificial negativity. Nonetheless, for what it’s worth, it’s a known phenomenon that comments online come across more confrontationally than they would in real-world interactions, even when the same content. Add to that that this Literotica author’s forum is a motley crew of oddball, perverted creative talent. While they obviously don’t need me or anyone else to speak for them, I think that the seeming tone of Keith, EB and others, may have felt harsh and dismissive because it’s an online forum and they’re old hat at this; but they mean nothing but to be open, instructive and encouraging—they wouldn’t be volunteering their time and writing expertise if that wasn’t the case.

 

[MetaBob]

Thank you, your notes have also been appreciated and helpful. I do come from, mostly, a performance background, and my immediate work of vocal performance is undoubtedly influencing the writing style. As mentioned, I wrote the first piece by accident, which is why the narrative style happened. I didn't intend to write these as if I was speaking TO someone. Then, they developed that way. As I began to pilot them with small audiences, and work through them in editing, I'm finding they may work as a series. I hope to find a place to mount them for live performance within the year.

Thank you for saying all that. Very appreciated, truly.

I’m glad that you linked AMD’s review thread, Bob. I remember that frenzy of, what I considered unmerited, unwarranted vitriol combined with, and in some cases outweighing, the actual feedback to your work. Some of it was even to the degree of the “pot calling the kettle black”, i.e., browbeating you for the same issues that other writers have in their own output. From all of my interactions with you, I’ve thought you to be civil and engaged, helpful and receptive, and I thought your response to highly critical feedback was exemplary for us all: take what works for you and politely discard the rest.

Interestingly, my latest post to this thread appears to have disappeared, apart from segments of it excerpted by others.

I would be very surprised if anyone could point to any part of that post that violated any part of any guideline posted here.

I will take a little hiatus while this gets sorted out, if it ever is. At the moment I'm experiencing a lack of confidence in this site's management, or at least this corner of it.

Thank you, Vix_Giovanni and AinslieCaswell, for acknowledging that any of my thoughts might have been helpful or otherwise beneficial.

Best to you in your writing and your lives, and to all,
-MɛtaBob

 

[AinslieCaswell]

I would be very surprised if anyone could point to any part of that post that violated any part of any guideline posted here.

Don't worry, I don't believe that was you. You quoted from the post that called me a psycho "b" and is now deleted, so that may explain it. Several others, which were not pertinent to the work I posted or the topic at hand, are also gone (including one or two of mine, and I didn't delete them.... I don't know how this system works, exactly, but someone or something cleaned house here).