Gender Differences on the Board

[lavender]

 

[Siren]

Lavy, if I dont like you...will you fuck me?

 

[MorgaineLaFay]

Re: Lavy, if I dont like you...will you fuck me?

I totally agree with you....it is a prevalent occurance on lit as well as RL.

Assertive women are labeled bitches.....
and who does most of the labeling and negative reaction on LIT?

WOMEN.

women scratch and claw at women that are opinionated, intelligent, assertive and vocal.
yet turn around and fawn over the men for doing the same thing.

Women feel threatened by a strong aggressive and assertive woman in their midst.

Some weak men react the same as well.

Gender does play a part..... a negative part.

women need to address their issues of insecurity and focus on why they attack stronger women......
but to do that, they would have to admit to doing it
and admit to needing some internal house cleaning.........

and that is one reason that they attack in the first place........
cuz they realize at some level that this other woman is a mirror to them and shows them attributes they wish they had,,,,,
thus the attack.

until women can see another stronger woman as an asset
this will continue to happen.

Good thread.
Where is sexyness btw>?

I couldn’t agree with you more...I was sitting here typing up a reply when I finished reading yours there was no need for mine.

 

[Marxist]

This is a woman's joint for the most part so it's up to you guys how you want to run it.

I can think of one chica who posts in almost the same underhanded manner as I and she gets flamed without mercy by some of the people who're complaining. Maybe she is a bitch, but I don't really get the rant about a fair shake.

BTW, I posted a thread about the chicks and their pretend sisterhood a while back. It's cool if that's the way it is so don't go stirring the pot if you're in the minor minority.

 

[lavender]

 

[freescorfr]

If you ladies feel got at, what is it that is triggered by being called "Bitch"? I don't imagine many of the guys who call you that have any idea what emotions it sets off.
So Lavander, it's excellent that you express it - but I suggest, from the strength of your respone, that there's something pretty big behind it.

Yes there's some real pricks around, but this one values your contributions.

 

[Azwed]

I think lavender is right for the most part but Siren is right as well. At least in my experience women tend to have a bigger problem with strong/assertive then men do.

The same tendancies can be found in voter behavior as well. There have been several studies that show this. Women are less likely to vote for a woman candidate then men are.

I ran across three or four of these research studies in academic journals last year when I was working on a research paper.

 

[DustyWolfe]

I sooooo know what you mean... I'm learning to be assertive and take control of things. But now because I am doing that people think I'm a bitch... I'm not a bad person.. I, like most women just get tired of getting walked all over.

btw Lavender... I think you said it all... I like the way you think.

 

[Marxist]

Just because it's a woman's joint doesn't mean the men don't have opinions.

And your example has nothing to do with a woman who is perceived as aggressive vs. assertive. In fact it's way fucking off topic.

This isn't just about sisterhood. To think this applies solely to your thread is totally denying the responsibility the men have as well as the women on this board.

It's a cop out for the humans with dicks who populate this community.

I'm so confused as to what you're trying to say.

And I think you are too.

 

[jass1960]

Gender stereotypes.........

...is that what you are railing against?

Do you want to be one of the boys? (Figuratively speaking)

In R/L and on here there are gender stereotypes and if you are seen to be outside of those - you rock the boat - and will get aggravation.

For instance:

TheMilkyBarKid is leaving the board - the women say aaahhhh, don't go. The men think who cares, if you are so needy that you have to post that you are leaving then good riddance - and one or two will post that way.

Jackie is meeting Ohioman - the women say aaahhh, how sweet. The men think who gives a flying fuck - and one or two will post that way.

The men in this situation may get called a bastard for a while - but it is transitory because he has conformed to stereotype - "He's a man, what would you expect?"

On the other hand if a woman was to post those remarks she would be non-conformist hence the attacks.

It cuts both ways - there was a thread about blow-jobs recently where men were being all sensitive and talking complete bollocks about turning down blow-jobs; roflmao - see, non-conformist - even someone as sensitive and intelligent as me flames them.

So I guess that I am saying is if you want to be non-conformist, good on you and fuck 'em!!

It's a cop out for the humans with dicks who populate this community.

Btw that is an aggressive statement not an assertive one - you bitch

 

[JennyOmanHill]

Why should the LIT boards be any different from the world in general?

I find gender double standards every day (along with age "discrimination"). I don't think it's going to change, but I just keep speaking my mind and the heck with what anyone else, male or female, feels about it. It's an ongoing life-long battle for me. I guess I never expected it to be different here at LIT.

 

[Guest]

I'm so confused as to what you're trying to say.

And I think you are too.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lavender
Just because it's a woman's joint doesn't mean the men don't have opinions.

And your example has nothing to do with a woman who is perceived as aggressive vs. assertive. In fact it's way fucking off topic.

This isn't just about sisterhood. To think this applies solely to your thread is totally denying the responsibility the men have as well as the women on this board.

It's a cop out for the humans with dicks who populate this community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marxist, are you confused this easily? Lavy is a strong, confident woman who is unfairly labelled as a bitch by some woman/men who are making a judgement based on bias.
A woman who is overly confident and outspoken is called a bitch, behind her back, yet men get greeted with congratulations.
This has nothing to do with sisterhood. Get over yourself and respect what she has to say as a person.
Is being confident, outspoken and so called aggressive being bitchy or realistic?
Lavender says things as they are. No bullshit.
If a man said what she does? Yeah right on man.
Instead she gets? She must be a bitch.

Yes. There are gender differences on this board. It just isn't talked about.

 

[April]

Why should *I* have to play all nicey nice, while the men of the board can be total fucking assholes, and we absolutely love them for it?

Lavender, not all women love the assholes of the board. In fact, if you really look closely, you might see that there are only a very small number of women who repeatedly post to these said assholes.

Personally, I feel that an asshole is just that, regardless of gender. And to be avoided.

And if they can get attention by being an asshole, and not exerting themselves to be polite, why should they change?

 

[Desdemona]

We've never talked before but,

I've gotta say this. The only people that attack others for speaking their minds are very insecure and not worth your time or emotional energy. I certainly don't waste my time or energy on them. I apply this philosophy equally to both men and women.

Lit is a community with some wonderful people and some who are not so wonderful. Like April, I believe that assholes are attention seekers. I refuse to give them that which they seek.

Just continue to be yourself. You are part of what makes this interesting and diverse community wonderful.

 

[sch00lteacher]

Rules learned over the last forty some odd years, never argue gender issues with women. Never argue racial issues with an African-American. Never argue politics with a nut.

It is a non-winning situation.

I will not participate.

 

[Ishmael]

Gender wars, part infinity

I totally agree with you....it is a prevalent occurance on lit as well as RL.

Assertive women are labeled bitches.....
and who does most of the labeling and negative reaction on LIT?

WOMEN.

women scratch and claw at women that are opinionated, intelligent, assertive and vocal.
yet turn around and fawn over the men for doing the same thing.

Women feel threatened by a strong aggressive and assertive woman in their midst.

Some weak men react the same as well.

Gender does play a part..... a negative part.

women need to address their issues of insecurity and focus on why they attack stronger women......
but to do that, they would have to admit to doing it
and admit to needing some internal house cleaning.........

and that is one reason that they attack in the first place........
cuz they realize at some level that this other woman is a mirror to them and shows them attributes they wish they had,,,,,
thus the attack.

until women can see another stronger woman as an asset
this will continue to happen.

Good thread.
Where is sexyness btw>?

Gender exists, and the differences are real. Men and women have different imperatives in life, and differing ways of achieving their goals. It has been popular of late to blame these differences on the social structure in which we live. Research has started to show that brain chemistry has a lot more to do with it than what you mother, or father, or peers, instilled in you.

We literally think differently and behave diferently in similar situations.

Women, over the eons, have found that a certain degree of submissiveness has been beneficial to acheiving their goals, men the opposite. Is this a conscious decision? For the most part, no it isn't. It's instinctive. When you rail against it, both men's and women's behavior, you might as well rail against the sun coming up in the morning.

History has shown that men do not automatically discard strong female leaders. But strenght doesn't neccessarily come from being abrasive. As many would be female leaders in history were cast aside for reasons that had nothing to do with their gender. It hasd to do with their lack of leadership. Many men fell from power for the same reason.

Men and women are equal. They just aren't the same. And never will be. Women have strenghts in areas that many contemporary men haven't been taught about. And men are strong in different areas. Men and women are complimentary, and designed to be so in the interest of survival of the species.

All the bullshit, all the lofty ideas, all the 'feeliings' in the world will NOT change the biological imperatives that make the genders different. And thank God for the difference.

Ishmael

 

[bluespoke]

Lavy

You are a very intelligent and assertive woman.

Don't ever change!

Don't let the bastards (male or female) grind you down!

 

[Cheyenne]

Rules learned over the last forty some odd years, never argue gender issues with women. Never argue racial issues with an African-American. Never argue politics with a nut.

Those are pretty good rule, teach, in general.

I'm not sure why, but I don't seem to feel like I have the same problem with the board that you do, Lavender. I don't see the attacks just because a woman is aggressive. I think we are a sum total of all of our posts here. If I'm attacked here, it isn't usually for just one thread or one opinion. It is my whole personality and who I am that is attacked. I can deal with that.

I think I treat the men and women on the board the same. I "call a spade a spade" whether male or female, newbie or old time member. I don't play attack games off the board- I post my opinions here and I ask others to do the same about me. I don't create new identities- I'm always Cheyenne, no matter what. I am consistent, and people know what to expect from me. This really isn't any different than RL for me, other than in RL I don't have people who feel it is okay to comment on and criticize my physical characteristics. And no one in RL questions my intelligence since they know that is an ineffective insult with me.

I'm rambling somewhat, but the point I'm trying to make is that I don't feel the same atmosphere here that Lavender believes is so obvious to her. But that may be partially because of who I am here, as well as who I am in RL. I work in a man's world every day, the only female at my level in my company, and in my industry (as far as I know.) I am aggressive in RL, but it isn't abnormal in my corner of the world. I fit in. I think I fit in here, too. If I didn't, I wouldn't have spent so many hours of my life here in the last two years.

 

[TonyG]

...However, if a woman is strong, if a woman speaks her mind, if a woman in any way says anything mean or nasty, she is a bitch. She is cast aside and is attacked beyond belief.

...There is a fine line between assertive and aggressive women. On many occasions we mistake an assertive woman, a woman who can speak her mind, a woman who is opinionated and sometimes articulate as being aggressive. This aggression gives her the most amazing title of: BITCH.

...If you don't like me. Fuck you. I'm probably more real than half the people on this board. And if that means nothing to you, well then go to hell.

Assertive women can easily be thought of as aggresive and as a bitch by both women and men. I know several men in my business world who label strong women as bitches, just because they won't sit back and wait for the world to come to them. However, strong men are seen as 'go getters'. I don't know how true this is beyond my environment but I do sense it here sometimes. Maybe it comes from our individual upbringing, how we were made to view male/female interactions.

I don't know if a 'double standard' is consciously employed as much as it is people merely showing their assertive or mild makeup.

Great thread Lavender and as far as liking you, I guess I am not going to hell. I think you have been both assertive and mild on this board and you are definitely not a bitch.

 

[mskittykatt]

Lavy is a strong, confident woman who is unfairly labelled as a bitch by some woman/men who are making a judgement based on bias.

WTF! aren't we grown up's here?? Fair *lol* really now.

my official statement regarding this topic is:
what other people think of you, is really none of your buisness!!
damn... just relax and don't take everything and everyone so damn seriously!!!!!!! please...

 

[Marxist]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by lavender
Just because it's a woman's joint doesn't mean the men don't have opinions.

And your example has nothing to do with a woman who is perceived as aggressive vs. assertive. In fact it's way fucking off topic.

This isn't just about sisterhood. To think this applies solely to your thread is totally denying the responsibility the men have as well as the women on this board.

It's a cop out for the humans with dicks who populate this community.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marxist, are you confused this easily? Lavy is a strong, confident woman who is unfairly labelled as a bitch by some woman/men who are making a judgement based on bias.
A woman who is overly confident and outspoken is called a bitch, behind her back, yet men get greeted with congratulations.
This has nothing to do with sisterhood. Get over yourself and respect what she has to say as a person.
Is being confident, outspoken and so called aggressive being bitchy or realistic?
Lavender says things as they are. No bullshit.
If a man said what she does? Yeah right on man.
Instead she gets? She must be a bitch.

Yes. There are gender differences on this board. It just isn't talked about.

I'm not confused as to Lavender's "strength." She's one of the most intelligent, thoughtful, and pragmatic people you are likely to encounter on Literotica, I'm just asking: WHAT IS THE REMEDY? WHO IS THE OFFENDER? WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Jass covered a lot of ground already on the topic but here's more of my take.

THE PROBLEM IS.....Lavy wants to be taken more seriously. Who doesn't take Lavy seriously? I know I do. BlkPnthr maybe? Who cares if one person of lesser intellect doesn't agree with you and brands you a "bitch" or "cunt" or whatever. Deal with it like a man if you want to be treated as co-equal. And no, no one will give you a high five just for being a girl. Not that you wanted one anyway right?


THE REMEDY is......."Everyone watch out, Lavy is on a rampage." So what? People respect what you have to say, regardless of the hysterionic vibe you're giving off. I'll continue to treat you as a dear friend and an ally against a lot of the Right Wing shit that shows up on the board. Everyone else can pick and choose how they want to regard you. Some impressions will be colored by how they treat other women or men in their daily lives I'm sure, but who really cares? Their minds are already made up.


Can you imagine how lame it would be if I started a thread asking (or demanding) equity of thought for me, Guy JD, daughter, Ethiopian Prince, CH, CB, raindancer and the other people of color? I for one expect that people will pay attention to me and consider my thoughts. If I have to ask an audience to treat me as a co-equal, chances are that if they didn't before they won't now.


Keep your head up Lavender and do as you please. Just don't be shocked when you get what you give. I know I'm not when it happens to me.

 

[kotori]

I wonder . . .

In light of the discussion of specific words (I'm thinking of the "nigger" thread), and how the use of this, the meaning of them, differs based on both the specific speaker and specific hearer, is "Bitch" the female equivalent of "Nigger"?

My initial reaction is to say "no, of course not." But then I'm a white male, so I've never been called either of those words where they carried the full weight given. I can't be. They don't have the cultural resonance to make them more than superficially offensive to me, personally.

I want to agree with Marxist, and just say "Lavy, don't pay attention to the creeps who would call you 'bitch' or whatever." If it were the racial word, however, directed at a person of color, it would be way different.

 

[jass1960]

Re: I wonder . . .

In light of the discussion of specific words (I'm thinking of the "nigger" thread), and how the use of this, the meaning of them, differs based on both the specific speaker and specific hearer, is "Bitch" the female equivalent of "Nigger"?

My initial reaction is to say "no, of course not." But then I'm a white male, so I've never been called either of those words where they carried the full weight given. I can't be. They don't have the cultural resonance to make them more than superficially offensive to me, personally.

I want to agree with Marxist, and just say "Lavy, don't pay attention to the creeps who would call you 'bitch' or whatever." If it were the racial word, however, directed at a person of color, it would be way different.

I think there is a difference:

As there is a vibrant thread about the word nigger - I will be deliberately concise.

Nigger used by White people to denigrate
Bitch used by both men and women to label

 

[Marxist]

Good Point Kotori

BITCH has much in common with NIGGER in that some attempt to embrace it while others run from it and get angry when they're pronounced as one.

I think what differentiates the two is the heritage and the implication of behavior found in the word BITCH.

You don't have to do anything but be dark skinned to be called NIGGER, like I said before, for me it's a synonym for SLAVE.

BITCH requires action and denotes complainer (in verb form) and female bullheaded antagonist as a noun.

They're not equivalents but both are wielded by lesser minds as perjorative.

 

[sexy-girl]

i agree with lavender to some degree (its wonderful that you're back posting on the board again missed you )


however i think that nobody male or female should be rude or mean without reason ... there is a difference between being assertive/confident and being plain rude


lavender of course i feel is one of the most confident and assertive and nice people on the board so she kicks butt in all areas


i do think there is a gender gap with this in more ways then one ... i think guys can get away with being rude more but also i think maybe women care more about other peoples opinions so maybe thats another reason why we cant get away with being rude


i know lisa doesnt post so much on this board because she doesnt have enough time too but also because like lavender i think she considors herself an assertive person and she thinks she'd make too many waves for me when she wasnt here that much anyway (i will try too convince her to post a bit more though)