Gun Control

[VaticanAssassin]

Nobody brought up the Constitution at all. Nice attempt at a dodge though. Yes, I had the testicular fortitude to call your entire premise ignorant. Pants on head retarded.

I assume you are drunk?

The kind of stupid you are spewing has very few alternatives.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Actually I'm painfully sober right now. But that's beside the point entirely. Nobody has brought up the Constitution except you and honestly it has no part in the conversation thus far. Not that I'm usually particularly concerned with what the Constitution does or doesn't say.

If your argument begins and ends with "the Constitution says" what you have isn't an argument. It's a religion and the hope that tolerance demands accept your ignorance instead of condemning it.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

If you are sober than I feel even worse for you.
Not a single point you have attempted to make has made anymore sense than the OP. Honestly, not even enough logic there to argue with. I'd sooner engage Mike Yates.

Maybe try drinking?

 

[Sean Renaud]

It's okay that you can't keep up. I don't hold it against you we all know you're one of the dumbest sons of bitches on this site. And boring to boot.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Second that nobody would willingly turn their weapons over which is again not true. A lot of people would, I'd bet over 50%. They might gripe about it but when the government came around they'd shut up and obey the law as written.

You are delusional if you think over 50% of US citizens would voluntarily give up their guns. I own a single weapon, a Glock that I go target shooting with. I have 4,000 9mm rounds that I bought in bulk off the internet sitting in my closet. My gun & ammo represents around a $1,500 investment. I have a cousin that has around a dozen different weapons. He has hand guns for the shooting range. He has a pair of rifles for hunting. And he has one that he conceal-carries. He probably has around 8-12 grand invested. There is no way in hell that over 50% of Americans would voluntarily give up their guns. Honestly, I'd be shocked if 5% of US citizens would even consider that.

You are living in a fantasy if you'd think that would ever happen.

And as for the 3D printed guns. The CAD files to print those guns are already floating throughout the internet. You have a better chance of getting HD video of sasquatch then to scrub those files from the internet. And as those 3D printers improve year after year, the quality of those 3D printed guns will also improve.

After the Sandy Hook tragedy, Obama started talking about new gun control measures. In one month, US gun sellers sold more semi-automatic rifles in 1 month than the entire previous year. They called Obama their best salesman.

And finally, the FBI has been keeping track of violent crimes for decades. Violent crime in the United States has dropped in half over the last 20 years. How can that be? We have more guns than ever. The only difference from 20 years is that we have a lot more 24 hour news agencies with an, "If it Bleeds, it leads!" agenda.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Criminals would just keep their guns instead of turning them in because THEY ARE FUCKING CRIMINALS!!! THEY DO NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT FOLLOWING THE LAW!!!

But that doesn't mean laws don't effect their behavior or their ability to commit crimes.


Otherwise just cut the bullshit now and outright advocate pure and total lawless anarchy or that line of crap is meaningless.

 

[tactful]

Damn Samuel Colt.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

But that doesn't mean laws don't effect their behavior or their ability to commit crimes.

You could say the same thing about guns though. Let's say that a criminal was on a street corner & he was deciding which of the two gas stations he was going to rob. The criminal knows that one store owner legally carries. That will affect his/her behavior as to whom they will rob.

 

[snugglestruggle]

If the legal guns were gone, where would the bad people get their guns?

The US Givernment F&F part dux.

 

[ishtat]

Tell me, oh wise one. How are you going to require drug dealers, organized criminals, crazy people and terrorists to purchase insurance? Are you planning to charge them with "uninsured firearm" when you catch them murdering someone?

Or do you just want to disarm the responsible people due to ridiculous premiums.

How about we also require insurance to own a bicycle since so many people are hurt by these unnecessary and dangerous devices every year.

I s'pose it might be possible to ignore the individual gunowner, and put an insurance charge on ammunition (and its components), payable by manufacturers. It'd collect a lot of money. The ambulance chasing Lawyers might like the idea as it would bring them a heap of new business. Tricky bit would be whether Federal or State law governed the insurance contract.

 

[mark_j]

I s'pose it might be possible to ignore the individual gunowner, and put an insurance charge on ammunition (and its components), payable by manufacturers. It'd collect a lot of money. The ambulance chasing Lawyers might like the idea as it would bring them a heap of new business. Tricky bit would be whether Federal or State law governed the insurance contract.

You do realize that the cost would be passed on to the consumer right?

 

[VaticanAssassin]

For fucks sake. This whole thread is beyond retarded.

Let's start with the OP.

If liability insurance was required to own a gun, the gun industry and insurance industry would become best friends.

Hell, one claims examiner could handle every possible claim in the whole fucking United States on a part time basis... Premiums would cost pennies a month.

If guns where illegal criminals will just hand them in. Stupidest thing ever said. A majority of law abiding citizens wouldn't give their guns up much less criminals. What the fuck could the government do about it? Hell, 70% of my guns aren't registered.The goverment is going to go door to door gestapo style? NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. There are 350 million privetly owened guns in the U.S. Per the FBI. They estimate nearly as many "unregistered" guns.

The supply will eventually dry up? Bullshit. Ask Mexico how that is working out. I don't know a coke dealer. But I could still go buy some within the hour if
I wanted. Same would go for guns. A majority of the drugs do not enter the U.S. up some idiots ass. They come by the tons. Guns would be no different.

But all of this is simply a waisted attempt at what ifs. Because, the 2nd is going no where.....ever.

 

[Sean Renaud]

You are delusional if you think over 50% of US citizens would voluntarily give up their guns. I own a single weapon, a Glock that I go target shooting with. I have 4,000 9mm rounds that I bought in bulk off the internet sitting in my closet. My gun & ammo represents around a $1,500 investment. I have a cousin that has around a dozen different weapons. He has hand guns for the shooting range. He has a pair of rifles for hunting. And he has one that he conceal-carries. He probably has around 8-12 grand invested. There is no way in hell that over 50% of Americans would voluntarily give up their guns. Honestly, I'd be shocked if 5% of US citizens would even consider that.

You are living in a fantasy if you'd think that would ever happen.

You're the one who is living in a fantasy. 50% of Americans don't have guns to begin with. The percent of households averages below 40% in any given region of the country. At least according to Pew.

Gallup has it a little higher peaking at 54% in the 90's. This is self reported so some people could be lying either direction.

CNN reports them on a steady decline as does CBS.

Hell the NRA cites the Gallup poll from above at ownership being 47% of households.

So no matter how you cut it more than 50% of Americans one way or another don't have firearms to begin with. And when you factor in that household=/=individuals that number even lower than that.

Of the people who do own guns many of them are actual law abiding citizens despite your claim to the contrary and would obey a law even if they disagreed with it. And as I stated above if they leave it in a safe for fear of being put in jail for years for being caught with it, that's honestly just as good as melting it down and making pogs out of it.

And as for the 3D printed guns. The CAD files to print those guns are already floating throughout the internet. You have a better chance of getting HD video of sasquatch then to scrub those files from the internet. And as those 3D printers improve year after year, the quality of those 3D printed guns will also improve.

There's kiddy porn floating throughout the net as well. Doesn't seem like a quality reason not to nail people. Not to mention we've got a government that is capable of tracking down people who are planning to leave the country to join ISIS and weed them out from the people who are traveling overseas for legit reasons. You think they couldn't make downloading these programs difficult and risky?

Besides again, nail a fucker caught doing that to the wall a few times and see what happens. I already said the quality will improve with time though how long that takes and how long it is before average people have 3D printers and what safeties can be put in place to minimize this are all factors that are hard to know.

You don't have to scrub something entirely from existance. Make it difficult to obtain and risky to possess and the problem with correct it's damn self.

After the Sandy Hook tragedy, Obama started talking about new gun control measures. In one month, US gun sellers sold more semi-automatic rifles in 1 month than the entire previous year. They called Obama their best salesman.

Obama's been their best salesmen since he was the nominee. People are deeply retarded in this country and we all know that. Obama has put next to no effort in doing anything about gun violence. Most likely because he, like all Americans like guns. Nobody has ever accused us of having brains to spare, certainly not in recent history.

And finally, the FBI has been keeping track of violent crimes for decades. Violent crime in the United States has dropped in half over the last 20 years. How can that be? We have more guns than ever. The only difference from 20 years is that we have a lot more 24 hour news agencies with an, "If it Bleeds, it leads!" agenda.

First, while it depends partially one what precise year you choose (and also requires you to ignore how many millenials are still at home with mom and dad) the percentage of gun owners has remained more or less steady if not declined in the country. I only have to hands. . .and I can't fire my shotgun or rifle one handed ANYWAY but that's hardly the point. One guy with five guns isn't likely to commit any more crimes than one guy with one gun.

Crime is down pretty much around the world. Unless the likelihood of a thug getting shot in New York effects crime rates in Tokyo your argument would be moot even if there had been more armed citizens.

You could say the same thing about guns though. Let's say that a criminal was on a street corner & he was deciding which of the two gas stations he was going to rob. The criminal knows that one store owner legally carries. That will affect his/her behavior as to whom they will rob.

First that's a wonderful fantasy you've constructed but let's go back to you're fantasy world. The criminal robs the place that doesn't have a gun because somehow he knew. Unless your argument is if he knew they both had guns he wouldn't rob either (instead of just shooting them right out the gate instead of fucking around) you're not really making a quality argument.

The US Givernment F&F part dux.

Well considering Bush had pretty much the same policy we'd be at least on Part III. and. . .what would even be the purpose? It's amusing how crazy the conspiracy theories run with Conservatives. Like the government does crazy shit just because they are all bored.

You do realize that the cost would be passed on to the consumer right?

First, that's not actually correct. But even if it were, so the fuck what? If the goal is to minimize gun ownership passing on additional costs to the consumer will reduce the amount they consume. That's what you'd call a win-win if that were your goal.

For fucks sake. This whole thread is beyond retarded.

Let's start with the OP.

If liability insurance was required to own a gun, the gun industry and insurance industry would become best friends.

Hell, one claims examiner could handle every possible claim in the whole fucking United States on a part time basis... Premiums would cost pennies a month.

If guns where illegal criminals will just hand them in. Stupidest thing ever said. A majority of law abiding citizens wouldn't give their guns up much less criminals. What the fuck could the government do about it? Hell, 70% of my guns aren't registered.The goverment is going to go door to door gestapo style? NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. There are 350 million privetly owened guns in the U.S. Per the FBI. They estimate nearly as many "unregistered" guns.

The supply will eventually dry up? Bullshit. Ask Mexico how that is working out. I don't know a coke dealer. But I could still go buy some within the hour if
I wanted. Same would go for guns. A majority of the drugs do not enter the U.S. up some idiots ass. They come by the tons. Guns would be no different.

But all of this is simply a waisted attempt at what ifs. Because, the 2nd is going no where.....ever.

While I'm not sold the gun and insurance industries would become best buds I don't see why anybody would care. You're argument that one guy could handle every claim on a part time basis is absolute bullshit. I can't believe you would even make a claim that absurd.

Lots of criminals and law abiding citizens WOULD turn them in. That's just the simple truth. It's impossible to know the percentage of course but plenty of people would.

You claim you could go out and buy coke within an hour. I couldn't. As for asking Mexico well they do have us at their border, why don't we ask Germany? Or France? And a lot of drugs are produced right here.

Amazingly you got one thing right. The 2nd is never really going to go anywhere. The reality is we'll keep common sensing our way around it in fits and starts until it's an utterly meaningless collection of words on a two centuries old piece of paper.

 

[BotanyBoy]

You could say the same thing about guns though. Let's say that a criminal was on a street corner & he was deciding which of the two gas stations he was going to rob. The criminal knows that one store owner legally carries. That will affect his/her behavior as to whom they will rob.

This is such an unlikely specific scenario ....

Most people who rob a store are the same kind of dumb shit that will commit a felony for 56 bucks and a carton, landslide majority don't do recon. Because people smart enough to do homework want to get PAID, have crews and get away with it a lot more often than TV has people thinking.

Reality is gun control even in a gun friendly shall issue licencing environment can be VERY effective at helping law enforcement enforce the laws making it difficult for bad juju to get a gun and scare off those who aren't totally fucking loony with the potential risk of getting caught. If it's structured right.....

No LW'ers I'm not talking about a fucking assault weapons ban...you lot of emotional fucking spastics need to accept that as long as you keep on about that fuckin stupid shit M'urican gun control debate is absolutely not going past "2A suck it bitches!!".

What am I saying....carry on with the "Shall nawt be infringed!!!" v " Ban fully automatic revolvers, that's what AR means right? Yea no one needs military machine guns!! Unloaded guns kill every day!!!" I'm tired of bashing my brains out on this brick wall.

 

[SashaGaga999]

You are delusional if you think over 50% of US citizens would voluntarily give up their guns. I own a single weapon, a Glock that I go target shooting with. I have 4,000 9mm rounds that I bought in bulk off the internet sitting in my closet. My gun & ammo represents around a $1,500 investment. I have a cousin that has around a dozen different weapons. He has hand guns for the shooting range. He has a pair of rifles for hunting. And he has one that he conceal-carries. He probably has around 8-12 grand invested. There is no way in hell that over 50% of Americans would voluntarily give up their guns. Honestly, I'd be shocked if 5% of US citizens would even consider that.

You are living in a fantasy if you'd think that would ever happen.

And as for the 3D printed guns. The CAD files to print those guns are already floating throughout the internet. You have a better chance of getting HD video of sasquatch then to scrub those files from the internet. And as those 3D printers improve year after year, the quality of those 3D printed guns will also improve.

After the Sandy Hook tragedy, Obama started talking about new gun control measures. In one month, US gun sellers sold more semi-automatic rifles in 1 month than the entire previous year. They called Obama their best salesman.

And finally, the FBI has been keeping track of violent crimes for decades. Violent crime in the United States has dropped in half over the last 20 years. How can that be? We have more guns than ever. The only difference from 20 years is that we have a lot more 24 hour news agencies with an, "If it Bleeds, it leads!" agenda.

I think another thing people are forgetting about the 3D printed guns, and why they don't honestly pose a threat to public safety, is that they all SUCK. Those things are catastrophic failures waiting to happen (and amputated hands).

And good point about Obama, and in general the democratic parties ruffling of feathers about gun control, often results in INCREASED weapon sales (see following Brady in the 90s, and in the 2000s when obama was elected).

I myself am getting worried with all the publicity the shootings this year have gotten that even MORE restrictive legislation is going to get pushed through before Obama's exit. I am scrambling to save up for at least 1 handgun as fast as possible (trying to narrow down to what i want ), and I imagine a lot of people are like me, worried that stuff is going to change and wanting to get ahead of that. I mean this might have the effect of making me buy MORE, and sooner than i otherwise might have, just because i'm worried they won't even be around in ten years when I otherwise might want something new to add the collection.

 

[VaticanAssassin]

Go colt 1911. Remington 1911 if $ is a issue...

Unless you are a girl then get a glock.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Go colt 1911. Remington 1911 if $ is a issue...

Unless you are a girl then get a glock.

I like my Springfield....No it's not the Wilson but it's also 1/2 the price. It's been a good pistol though...little less snappy than my Colt.

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Or if you want something lighter or more manageable (if you plan to conceal carry), I'd recommend the Walther PPK (James Bond's gun):

http://cupegraf.com/data_images/wallpapers/31/399001-walther-ppk.jpg

 

[eyer]

For fucks sake. This whole thread is beyond retarded.

You realize you're starring in it...

...right?

 

[ishtat]

You do realize that the cost would be passed on to the consumer right?

Of course! Why not - it would be unarguable that the most prolific users would pay.

Ammunition is already taxed at 11% producing about $170 million a year. Double that and you would have a handy fund. If imported ammo was even more heavily taxed it would be almost patriotic!

 

[SashaGaga999]

Go colt 1911. Remington 1911 if $ is a issue...

Unless you are a girl then get a glock.

I have fired a Colt 1911, and like it a lot. But from what I've seen the maintenence is a bit more than I'm interested in dealing with.

Don't think I'll be concealing it at all, so a full-size gun is alright; maybe even prefer more heft to absorb recoil.

Also, definitely prefer all-metal to polymer. Although sometimes I will still want to shoot a Glock 19.

Do really enjoy the SIG P226 (I think) but those are pricey!

 

[Mello_SixtyNine]

Here's my Glock:

http://i.imgur.com/CMALgzn.jpg

The case is a Pelican 1495 computer case that I bought off of Amazon.

Fits up to 17" laptop
Watertight, crushproof, and dust proof
Easy open Double Throw latches
Automatic Pressure Equalization Valve
Interior Dimensions (inches): 18.87 x 13.12 x 3.81
Fold down over molded handle
Combination lock

I cut out the foam myself.

 

[Not Normal]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/64/3b/fe/643bfef6d85eef80a187a08aefbe8223.jpg

Sad and true.

This is pretty much it. We, as a nation, will NEVER have less shootings, or less violence. We won't have a civil discourse on gun control, and we won't institute any law with any significance. There will be some talk, there will some fairly pedestrian law, that make little difference, but will be enough to make politicians look like they did something to their constituents who show concern about the amount of gun violence. Shortly after the "new law" that does little to nothing is passed, someone will shoot up a mall, or a bank, or a school or whatever. Then the politicians will talk about the terrible tragedy, and they will "pray for the families." Next they will say it's too soon to have the discussion. Then there will be internet discussion where people attempt to make cogent arguments, but are met with ridiculous reactions.

wash, rinse, repeat

ad nauseum.

 

[mdbigdee]

This is pretty much it. We, as a nation, will NEVER have less shootings, or less violence. We won't have a civil discourse on gun control, and we won't institute any law with any significance. There will be some talk, there will some fairly pedestrian law, that make little difference, but will be enough to make politicians look like they did something to their constituents who show concern about the amount of gun violence. Shortly after the "new law" that does little to nothing is passed, someone will shoot up a mall, or a bank, or a school or whatever. Then the politicians will talk about the terrible tragedy, and they will "pray for the families." Next they will say it's too soon to have the discussion. Then there will be internet discussion where people attempt to make cogent arguments, but are met with ridiculous reactions.

wash, rinse, repeat

ad nauseum.

This ^^^^

 

[I_jerk_off_alot]

I have to add my two cents here:

First off, I support the second amendment. Saying I, a reasonable, moral and responsible person cannot own a gun because somebody else has in the past or might in the future commit a crime with one is absurd.

People get stabbed everyday too and there is no movement to ban knives on ANY level.

The was a murder on my street last year. He was beaten to death. Beaten with fists. Not a brick, not a bat, FISTS. Nobody is calling for a single Karate studio to be shut down.


Now about turning in guns. Cleveland had a gun buyback last week. $100 for handgun and $200 for Semi-automatic rifles.

People were lining up around the damn block to turn them in. They had it set up like a drive through, no questions asked. Give a gun - get a gift card. In and out in less than 5 minutes. I got $200 for a broken and un-fixable rifle. People were turning in really nice guns though. I saw a sweet H&K go into a bin to get melted.

Greedy short term people will turn in their guns. Most Criminals won't. Neither will responsible people who have a significant honest investment in their collection, no matter what the reason is that they have their guns.

Stop thinking inanimate objects are the problem. Start thinking about the mind controlling the hand holding the gun.

Fear the man, not the gun.