Gun Controll question.

[rgraham666]

The only way you're going to get rid of firearms in the U.S. is when people stop being frightened of their fellow citizens (which includes the politicians, criminals and everyone). And when they stop being greedy enough to be willing to use violence against there fellow citizens.

The latter isn't going to happen as our society currently rotates around greed. "Greed is good."

And the former isn't going to happen because many people live for their fear, and its close relations anger and hatred. It shapes their lives and forms their egos. They don't want to give it up.

 

[Kev H]

Interesting that you chose "baby-step" to describe measures that any reasonable person has difficulty indescribing as "a bad thing."

IIRC, it was Sarah Brady who characterized the Brady Bill as "a baby step on our path to completely eliminating handguns" -- or words to that effect.

I really don't think it's paranoid to expect ANY new measure to be twisted and corrupted by the anti-gun lobby or used as the "tip of the wedge" for further restrictions on gun ownership and use when the anti-gun lobby loudly, publically and triumphantly gloat about every "baby step" on the path to their stated goal of total elimination of ALL gun ownership.

FWIW, the much touted Brady Bill was quietly allowed to lapse without renewal because it proved to be absolutely useless at "controlling guns" -- it was no more than an annoyance to law-abiding purchasers and totally ignored by anyone who would have been inconvenienced.

Hmm, total coincidence in my wording, since I have not read the Brady Bill (though I know well enough that the NRA-types believe everyone who backs the Brady Bill is only interested in completely disarming the public). Your point here is the first rational point made (though it makes me incredibly sad); for what you have said is that the Brady People are maniacs, and cannot be fought with rationality or "baby steps" with no implied disarmament. If that's the case, then this is really a zero-sum game that has no room for rational discourse.

 

[yevkassem72]

The only way you're going to get rid of firearms in the U.S. is when people stop being frightened of their fellow citizens (which includes the politicians, criminals and everyone). And when they stop being greedy enough to be willing to use violence against there fellow citizens.

The latter isn't going to happen as our society currently rotates around greed. "Greed is good."

And the former isn't going to happen because many people live for their fear, and its close relations anger and hatred. It shapes their lives and forms their egos. They don't want to give it up.

Ah, but there is reason to fear the government and criminals. Can't speak for anyone else.

As for greed, I am not fond of it, but I would never attack people, anyway.

 

[kendo1]

It seems to me, from the other side of the pond, that Americans have the right to be shot.

I suspect that hardly anyone over here can understand the depth of emotion concerning owning a gun or the right to own one.

It never crosses our minds. We have no need, no desire.

What is all this nonsense about having a gun to protect yourself from government? Get a life, go and vote like we do.

 

[Kev H]

But, rg, no one (that I can see) is talking about getting rid of all firearms. I certainly am not--I love my pistol, and I really enjoy firing my dad's guns on our private (500yrd) range. Why jump to this unless it is truly a zero-sum equation--is there truly no middle ground? Are there no Brady proponents out there who believe in anything less than abolishment? I'd like to see rational people try ideas at controlling guns in the spirit that it might help (along with education) to limit the instances of gun-related violence. I have no real hope of that, but we wont know unless we try, will we? And trying should definately not mean a "loss" for the NRA-people.

Maybe that's just silly hopes. If so, I'd much rather be on the NRA side than have all private guns banned--that's just total lunacy.

 

[Kev H]

It seems to me, from the other side of the pond, that Americans have the right to be shot.

I suspect that hardly anyone over here can understand the depth of emotion concerning owning a gun or the right to own one.

It never crosses our minds. We have no need, no desire.

What is all this nonsense about having a gun to protect yourself from government? Get a life, go and vote like we do.

LoL, Kendo, while that's very amusing, it's a lil insensitive to the climate of the founding of this country (right or wrong). We were militant revolutionaries, remember? Guns were the instrument of our "liberation" from imperialism. That may be hard for you to understand, especially if you are from some tiny tribe-like country, or if you are just conditioned from birth to accept your norms meekly. If that's truly paradise, it wont be as soon as enough people realize it. Good luck.

 

[zotique]

Registration

We have quite a few restrictive laws in Canada regarding gun ownerhsip, including full registration of ALL firearms (still). The current federal government is contemplating eliminating the registry for long guns. Handguns have been restricted and requiring registration since about 1935.

There is a screening process everybody has to go through to get a PAL (possession aquisition licence), and there are also strict provisons to get an ATT (authoization to transport) handguns.

Many handguns are on the prohibited list as are full auto weapons and some semi-auto assault rifles.

It is illegal to shoot people in your own home as well, unless you can prove in a court of law that your life was really really in danger.

That said, there are still a handful of cases where nutbars have slipped through the screening process, purchased handguns and killed people, including at Dawson college.

The bad guys also still get guns illegally, but mostly just use them on each other.

Still, there is a lot of bitching and moaning by the Canadian right-wing wanna be American fascists that think we shouldn't have gun control as it exists in Canada.

I own firearms to hunt with - no handguns at all- and don't think the process to buy, sell own or transfer firearms is too arduous, even if I have to show my PAL (see above) just to buy a box or cartridges. No big deal.

It has probably saved lives making them more inaccessible than in the U.S.

 

[Weird Harold]

Your point here is the first rational point made (though it makes me incredibly sad); for what you have said is that the Brady People are maniacs, and cannot be fought with rationality or "baby steps" with no implied disarmament. If that's the case, then this is really a zero-sum game that has no room for rational discourse.

Don't take my word for it, do a little research on Sarah Brady's and other leading anti-gun figures' public statements. For that matter, research some of the NRA's counter-statements.

However, if you consider that the "first rational point" in this thread, you have a very strange sort of definition of "rational." The irrationality of the Anti-gun Lobby is, for me, totally irrelevant to the rational point that we simply do not need more "gun control," we need to enforce the laws already on the books.

I also consider the point that law-abiding gun owners like you and I are being "punished" for the actions of lunatics and idiots simply because we own guns.

Creating more criminals by making more things crimes is NOT the way to reduce crime. The way to reduce Crime is to catch and punish criminals consistently and without exceptions or plea bargains.
(repealing stupid and unenforceable laws to reduce the number of possible "crimes" would help, but that's solving a different "problem." )

 

[kendo1]

LoL, Kendo, while that's very amusing, it's a lil insensitive to the climate of the founding of this country (right or wrong). We were militant revolutionaries, remember? Guns were the instrument of our "liberation" from imperialism. That may be hard for you to understand, especially if you are from some tiny tribe-like country, or if you are just conditioned from birth to accept your norms meekly. If that's truly paradise, it wont be as soon as enough people realize it. Good luck.

You say that to a Scotsman!

You're brave on the other end of the internet.

Aye, Scotland is paradise. Hardly a wee tribe-like country.

You try wearing a kilt and see how daft ye look.

 

[Kev H]

You say that to a Scotsman!

You're brave on the other end of the internet.

Aye, Scotland is paradise. Hardly a wee tribe-like country.

You try wearing a kilt and see how daft ye look.

*cackles* My deepest apologies, you crazy, free-swinging comedian. I know precious little of the land, though some of my family came from there--shame on me. It does seem beautiful, but I thought you guys were all Bravehearts, so is it a matter of "don't need no stinkin gun, I got this rock" or just some rash of civility? My guess would be that you guys have more sense of family/community and less lost souls, but correct me if that's incorrect.

 

[rgraham666]

Shrugs. I'm not especially afraid of my government or of criminals. Don't see any reason why I should be.

In fact the terror and loathing many Americans hold their government in is one of the things I find hardest to understand.

And one of the reasons, I believe, it's in so much trouble. How can a society work when the citizens and the people they appoint to positions of responsibility work when both groups hold one another in such complete contempt?

I have no more to say in this thread. I'm neither anti nor pro gun. I'm neither anti nor pro government. Both are tools that work only as well as their user's abilities and wisdom.

 

[kendo1]

*cackles* My deepest apologies, you crazy, free-swinging comedian. I know precious little of the land, though some of my family came from there--shame on me. It does seem beautiful, but I thought you guys were all Bravehearts, so is it a matter of "don't need no stinkin gun, I got this rock" or just some rash of civility? My guess would be that you guys have more sense of family/community and less lost souls, but correct me if that's incorrect.

Probably to the same extent as, say, a Texan being proud of Texas.
Though Scotland is beautiful in a small way.


Besides, we don't need rocks - we use our heads. Ever heard of a Glasgow handshake? ( a headbut )

 

[pcremington]

Police response

Everyone must be able to defend themselves. The police can't do it for you.

I have been a cop for 30 years and have NEVER arrived in time to save

anyone's ass.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Besides, we don't need rocks - we use our heads. Ever heard of a Glasgow handshake? ( a headbut )

I love my fellow savages over the pond in Scotland.

 

[kendo1]

I love my fellow savages over the pond in Scotland.

Aye, lass. We have much in common, Aanakwan.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Aye, lass. We have much in common, Aanakwan.

Niin zaagi'idiwin giinawaa igaye.

 

[FatDino]

Niin zaagi'idiwin giinawaa igaye.

Don't forget I can read Ojibway too, Sherry.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Don't forget I can read Ojibway too, Sherry.

it's all good. Even if kendo can't actually read it, I bet he still knows what it says, eh?

(gagiibaadizi ikwezhenzhishiwi )

 

[FatDino]

it's all good. Even if kendo can't actually read it, I bet he still knows what it says, eh?

With a big at the end, you betcha

 

[Sherry Hawk]

With a big at the end, you betcha

see what I edited in there?

 

[FatDino]

see what I edited in there?

Didn't see it when I responded, and it took me a while to look up.

 

[kendo1]

Nimbaap.

 

[Sherry Hawk]

Nimbaap.

Iwenen anishinaabemowin giinawaa gaagiigidowin?

 

[FatDino]

Iwenen anishinaabemowin giinawaa gaagiigidowin?

Permission to look up your conversation, ma'am?

 

[yevkassem72]

Everyone must be able to defend themselves. The police can't do it for you.

I have been a cop for 30 years and have NEVER arrived in time to save

anyone's ass.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the police are there to punish and arrest criminals, not to prevent crimes.