Handgun Ballistics ?

[colddiesel]

Just to rub salt in the wounds, so to speak:

She should use HIS (penile substitute) gun (something big and powerful that he never practices with because it hurts his hand) to punch holes in his (penile substitute) car.

That would give her a plausible reason for using a gun bigger than most women choose to carry (because of size or weight, not because they can't shoot it.)

It would add more salt if the only prints on the gun when she finished were his.

You're right, it was always going to be his gun and your psych analysis isn't too far off target!

 

[JagFarlane]

Just to rub salt in the wounds, so to speak:

She should use HIS (penile substitute) gun (something big and powerful that he never practices with because it hurts his hand) to punch holes in his (penile substitute) car.

That would give her a plausible reason for using a gun bigger than most women choose to carry (because of size or weight, not because they can't shoot it.)

It would add more salt if the only prints on the gun when she finished were his.

-chuckles- reminds me of a scene from Mr and Mrs Smith "How come I get the girl gun??"

 

[rgraham666]

I liked the scene where they were comparing numbers.

Mr. Smith: I haven't kept count but I'd say high sixties, low seventies. How about you?

Mrs. Smith: Three hundred and twelve. Some of them were multiples.

 

[Gizzmotick]

-chuckles- reminds me of a scene from Mr and Mrs Smith "How come I get the girl gun??"

I liked the scene where they were comparing numbers.

Mr. Smith: I haven't kept count but I'd say high sixties, low seventies. How about you?

Mrs. Smith: Three hundred and twelve. Some of them were multiples.

I just rented that movie... again.

 

[JagFarlane]

I just rented that movie... again.

Hehe I own it

 

[xssve]

The grenade launcher referred to is the M79. Penetration in a handgun round is a function of physics, mainly speed and friction in this case - i.e., a smaller, faster projectile has more penetrative power than a larger, slower round.

The muzzle velocity of a .357 and .44 is about the same, but the velocity of the larger .44 drops off far more rapidly, and the larger slug encounters more friction resistance when it strikes the target, and thus, tends to disperse more of it's energy as lateral shock, rather than maintaining it's forward momentum.

We once tested a Teledyne auto mag on 1/4 stainless aperture plates and the .44 failed to completely penetrate: it dimpled and tore the metal, while the .357 punched straight through.

Either one might have enough energy to crack a hot block, to penetrate a block would likely require an armor penetrating round with substantial velocity, a .50 jacketed rifle round might do it, rifles use larger shells and the muzzle velocities tend to be much higher. It should be noted that the Teledyne auto mag does use a slightly cut down rifle shell, and has muzzle velocities in the lower end of the rifle range - not sure what the max grain is on a hot loaded Desert Eagle.

 

[R. Richard]

The grenade launcher referred to is the M79. Penetration in a handgun round is a function of physics, mainly speed and friction in this case - i.e., a smaller, faster projectile has more penetrative power than a larger, slower round.

It is true that the faster projectile has more potential penetration power. However, you must also consider the design of he projectile. Hunting or 'self defense' bullets are designed to dissipate as much energy as pracical in the target. A FMJ bullet is designed to penetrate.

 

[Weird Harold]

The muzzle velocity of a .357 and .44 is about the same, but the velocity of the larger .44 drops off far more rapidly, and the larger slug encounters more friction resistance when it strikes the target, and thus, tends to disperse more of it's energy as lateral shock, rather than maintaining it's forward momentum.

My Nosler reloading manual says you're wrong.

First, .44 Magnums max loads are 100 FPS slower than .357 Magnum max loads on average.

Second, if they are loaded for the same muzzle velocity -- say 1600 FPS, the .357 Magnum will drop to 1102 FPS over 150 yards and the .44 MAgnum will only drop to 1156 FPS. The .357 magnum has 767 ft# of energy dropping to 364 ft# over 150 yards versus the .44 magnums 1384 ft# to 712 ft# drop over the same distance.

I used the ballistics tables for a 135 gr .38/.357 load and a 240gr .44 load because they're common choices for the calibers, but the only difference different bullet weights would make is how much more speed and energy the .44 Mag retains over the .357 Mag.

This is the reason that it's legal to hunt deer with a .44 Mag but not with a .357 Mag in most places -- the ,357 mag simply doesn't have enough initial energy or retain enough energy to reliably take down a deer at typical pistol hunting distances.

However, the ability to penetrate an engine block is more a function of sectional density of the bullet once you get above a certain minimum bullet energy -- something in the range of 500 ft# of energy, (based on my experience with 158 grain .357 magnum semi-wadcutter factory loads and the nosler tables for 158 bullets.)

A .357 inch diameter (.38 Special/.357 Magnum) bullet penetrates better than a .429 inch diameter (.44 Magnum) bullet with similar sectional density and energy because it concetrates the energy on a smaller area.

 

[colddiesel]

Not true.

I'm about 5' 6", weigh somewhere around 130 - 140 lbs, and I can control a .44 mag (long barrel) - the Dirty Harry gun, for those who don't know - quite nicely. It's not my gun of choice, I would much rather use my 9mm semi, but I had a man tell me much the same thing you say here: that I was female, and therefore would be physically unable to use a .44. When I told my father what he'd said, he laughed his ass off. I'm very small-boned, with small hands, and although the grip on that size pistol is a tad large to be comfortable, that doesn't mean that I can't use it, and use it damn accurately.

The recoil is a bitch, but I've used most guns out there at some point or another, and as long as you know it's coming, it's not hard to control, either. Just so you don't think that I'm spouting off at the mouth without any real knowledge to back it up: my father was regional head of the NRA in his time (he was a nationally-ranked skeet shooter until his health got bad), I think I was six or seven years old when he first took me for target practice, and I competed one year on my university's nationally-ranked rifle team. I've also competed in several combat courses - you know, the ones where you walk down the "street," and have to decide very quickly if a pop-up is a good guy or a bad guy.




Sort of true.

Bruise the pad of your palm, probably. Tingling and numbness? Never. Sometimes if its a large caliber gun, your wrist might be a little sore the next day, but that's the joint that takes most of the recoil (and I have very small wrists).



Unless someone is a 80 lb. weakling, with very little strength in their arms, this is unlikely also.

Yeah, your muscles will get tired, as with any exercise. Also, the more you do it, the more you build up those muscles. I can fire a 30-06 with very little bruising to my shoulder. *shrug* In fact, I'll hurt myself with a gun much less than my husband will, and he weighs over 200 lbs, and is a good seven inches taller than me.

Just because someone is female doesn't mean they can't shoot. And sometimes it can be dangerous to assume so.

Not that I would ever doubt Cloudy for a moment but this afternoon I had the chance to watch a woman use a .357 revolver . I asked a woman I know slightly who is a very fine pistol shot whether she could demonstrate this situation .She although very experienced with guns declined because she had personally never used a large revolver. However she knew someone who had - her mother!. This 62 year old Vietnamese Australian who stands about 5' 2'' and weighs about 110 -115 pounds fired 5 shots in I guess about 10 or 12 seconds. She is fit through her work in horticulture. She put all 5 shots into an impressively tight target area. The thing that struck me as a complete novice was that she was so well balanced and was so delibeate it almost looked like slow motion.

Very impressive.

By the way in case anybody thinks this was just playing about it was done at a licenced pistol club under the control of their very strict rules.

 

[Weird Harold]

...fired 5 shots in I guess about 10 or 12 seconds. She is fit through her work in horticulture. She put all 5 shots into an impressively tight target area. The thing that struck me as a complete novice was that she was so well balanced and was so deliberate it almost looked like slow motion.

2-3 seconds/shot IS "slow motion," even with a single action revolver that has to be manually cocked between shots.

It's well within the time limit for "rapid fire" when firing for qualification, but an aimed shot every second -- or less -- is well within most shooters' capability with a revolver. With an automatic, two aimed shots per second are fairly easy because of the different recoil dynamics.

 

[Tricialen]

A 454 Casull made by Taurus.....with 300 grain lead bullets will penetrate the engine block through the cylinder wall, through the piston, and out the other side of the engine.

This was done on a running small block Chevrolet engine locking the engine up immediately. Coolant ran from one side and oil out the other. He killed the engine. My husband likes big stupid guns.

Do not try this at home.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

A 454 Casull made by Taurus.....with 300 grain lead bullets will penetrate the engine block through the cylinder wall, through the piston, and out the other side of the engine.

This was done on a running small block Chevrolet engine locking the engine up immediately. Coolant ran from one side and oil out the other. He killed the engine. My husband likes big stupid guns.

Do not try this at home.

Thanx for the empirical evidence, Trish. I'm sorry about the car but at least you've solved the question beyond all shadow of a doubt. Way to go. Hmmm, when you get to a hundred posts, that Casull might make a good AV. At least it would prevent you from being propositioned by the romantically hopeless.

 

[Tricialen]

Thanx for the empirical evidence, Trish. I'm sorry about the car but at least you've solved the question beyond all shadow of a doubt. Way to go. Hmmm, when you get to a hundred posts, that Casull might make a good AV. At least it would prevent you from being propositioned by the romantically hopeless.

Umm I hope no one tries this...it's not exactly an environmentally thing to do....men!

As for my future AV....humm I will have to give it serious thought but I really doubt it will be a gun.....something a little more...um soft and pretty

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Umm I hope no one tries this...it's not exactly an environmentally thing to do....men!

As for my future AV....humm I will have to give it serious thought but I really doubt it will be a gun.....something a little more...um soft and pretty

We definitely like soft and pretty, here. Why don't you stop by the Naked Party some evening. We're nuts, but friendly and very supportive.