Historical period piece writing, any advice?

[Nynah]

The level of filthiness in even the most developed countries prior to the 20th century is almost unimaginable. We were watching the HBO series The Gilded Age recently, and my husband remarked that all the rooms seemed to be decorated with dark colored wallpaper. I pointed out to him that there was soot everywhere. The dark colors hid it, and wallpaper is easier to wipe clean then painted wood walls.

I watch this show with a friend and this is a fun little detail I never noticed so thanks for sharing!

I'll have to find it but I did watch a YT video on the authenticity of The Gilded Age and the expert being interviewed thought that the show was quite faithful it its representation of 1880s-era NYC save for the fact that there should have been a lot more horse poop on the roadways.

 

[MelissaBaby]

I watch this show with a friend and this is a fun little detail I never noticed so thanks for sharing!

I'll have to find it but I did watch a YT video on the authenticity of The Gilded Age and the expert being interviewed thought that the show was quite faithful it its representation of 1880s-era NYC save for the fact that there should have been a lot more horse poop on the roadways.

That’s why shoeshine stands were so common.

 

[HordHolm]

The level of filthiness in even the most developed countries prior to the 20th century is almost unimaginable. We were watching the HBO series The Gilded Age recently, and my husband remarked that all the rooms seemed to be decorated with dark colored wallpaper. I pointed out to him that there was soot everywhere. The dark colors hid it, and wallpaper is easier to wipe clean then painted wood walls.

An interesting fact I learned in a Sociology class was that in most cities in the eastern USA, the east side was traditionally the poor part of town and the richer you were, the further to the west side you were likely to live. For example, in Maine, where I grew up, there are still many cities that were established along rivers, because lumber was the main industry and the logs would be floated downstream to the mills. Those mills were always located on the east side of the river, and the workers lived nearby. The upperclass lived on the west side of the river.

The reason for this? Think of a 19th century industrial city. Horses everywhere. Horse shit everywhere. Open sewers.Most homes without indoor plumbing. People heating their homes and cooking their meals with coal or wood. Even in town, many families kept chicken or pigs, even a milk cow here and there. And, of course, the smoke and stench from the factories and mills and slaughterhouses.

In most of North America, the prevailing winds blow from west to east. So, the rich people built their stately homes as far on the west side, where the air was fresh and clean, while the poor were stuck downwind in the stink.

These are excellent points. The same east/west divide is true in the UK as well, and for the same prevailing wind reason. The East End of London is a particularly notorious case in point given its association with Jack the Ripper, and those images of tall-hatted Victorian gents in opera cloaks sliding eastwards for a bit of (desperate and gin-soaked) rough - whether male or female - is true to an extent.

The filthiness is also why the housemaid/parlour maid would have to clean and polish every bit of silver in the place on a daily basis.

And this brings in (at a tangent) another thing to remember when writing a historical piece - the lack of privacy. Before World War 1 any reasonably-sized wealthy household (e.g. professional middle-class) might easily consist of Master and Mistress, a number of children, a nanny or governess, a major-domo of some kind - be that Butler or Gentleman's gentleman, a housekeeper, a cook, a lady's maid, a couple of parlour maids, a coachman (later a chauffeur), a scullery maid, a boy, and last and lowest a char woman. That's perhaps sixteen people (assuming three children still at home) in a household. Where to get privacy in amongst all those people? The rich might arrange assignations in the garden (the gazebo or summer house), whilst the servants would probably simply have to do without - unless the butler could convince one of the others to come down into the cellar, for which he held the keys, because that's where the booze was kept and he was the only one trusted with it.

Rich people would have progressively more servants, whilst as one slides lower down the middle-class the servants get fewer, until at the bottom there might only be two: a maid of all work, and a cook, with other help coming in daily. But with this came smaller houses, and still less opportunity to sneak around for a bit of slap and tickle.

The other thing to remember is how much people shared bedrooms. To have a room of one's own was incredibly rare, and only well-off older people and the children of the rich managed it. Everyone else was sharing, up to and including sharing a bed.

So for a long time, anything extra-marital or illicit was probably undertaken in the summer, and outside, quietly.

 

[Voboy]

Most of my historical pieces are set in pre-Conquest Britain, with another one in ancient Rome, and in all those stories I was not careful about language. My thought was that those people would have been speaking Latin, Norman French, or Old English, and since I wasn't writing in any of those, I just rendered the dialogue colloquially in terms of modern English. There were obvious differences in forms of address, and I was careful that my characters spoke differently to the wealthy than they did to others. My readers responded quite well.

I did MUCH research to make sure I got the clothes, money, and houses correct, and then I just mentioned them casually. No need to dump information on the audience just to show you did the research. I find that off-putting as a reader, so I don't do it as a writer. Just be offhand and casual about the stuff you did research, and then the facts won't get in the way of telling a good story. For example, I treat the filth as a matter of course, the same way a modern character would mention the weather.

Because, as someone else said up-thread, there's no real difference in the minds and motivations of people in different eras. If you want to fuck someone in 2025, the thoughts and emotions are going to be about the same in 1125 or in AD 25.

 

[HordHolm]

That’s why shoeshine stands were so common.

In Britain one of the main tasks of a male servant was to clean the master's shoes.

 

[8letters]

These are all very good points. What I would add, is that there was a blind eye sometimes turned to transgressing the class structure if the person doing the transgressing was a man, usually, (though we're as dealing with fantasy here a little female transgression should be forgiven). If the people were same sex class transgression would be more common, one suspects - lots of unmarried upper-class women had 'companions' of respectable, but lesser middle-class status, whilst events such as the Cleveland Street Scandal revealed upper-class men using working class young men for sex.

But this comes with a big 'however'... 'happy ever after' is going to be unattainable except in the most fortunate and unlikely circumstances, and the class structure will likely be maintained throughout any intimate interactions, whilst if there are any 'accidents', then the poor housemaid/waitress/lady of the night will be left to deal with the consequences.

Thus, the duke's heir, Viscount Snotnose, will be banging the housemaids at the Big House in Middleton-on-the-Wold, but if the girls get pregnant, they're out. As Viscount Snotnose gets older and the housemaids are now chosen in part for their bad looks he might well have a suitable bride effectively forced on him, but then he might turn his attention to his children's governess if his wife isn't careful. But again, discretion is key, and the reality is he is more likely to be visiting an expensive house of ill-repute or waiting at the stage door to the music hall (and getting regularly treated for the clap) than promising the unattainable to Miss Proudface the governess in the event he finds himself able to contract a second marriage.

Once we get past World War 1 things loosen up, but only by a small degree - the dalliances might be more likely to have a blind eye turned to them but the marriages still aren't going to happen. And now Viscount Snotnose is more likely to turn to young women from modelling agencies and the like (or supplied through his doctor - see Profumo), given the relative lack of servants available to exploit. Or he will simply use sex workers from the get go.

My impression is that female servants were invisible to the master of the house. He would literally almost never see them. His interactions would always be with male servants. The female servants always worked in some other part of the house from where the master was. Some of it was that female servants were considered far beneath the master, but it was also to keep the master from being able to bend a female servant over his desk in his study.

I toured several of the Robberbaron homes in Newport, RI. The maids hung out in secret rooms adjacent to the bedrooms. Once the occupant of the bedroom left it, the maid would pop out through a secret door and make the bed, lay out clothes, gather dirty clothes, etc. The two would never see each other.

The big exception to that was nannies. They had to interact with the master, who oversaw the upbringing of his children. Attractive, young nannies were definitely a threat to the mistress of the house and were treated as such.

 

[MelissaBaby]

My impression is that female servants were invisible to the master of the house. He would literally almost never see them. His interactions would always be with male servants. The female servants always worked in some other part of the house from where the master was. Some of it was that female servants were considered far beneath the master, but it was also to keep the master from being able to bend a female servant over his desk in his study.

I toured several of the Robberbaron homes in Newport, RI. The maids hung out in secret rooms adjacent to the bedrooms. Once the occupant of the bedroom left it, the maid would pop out through a secret door and make the bed, lay out clothes, gather dirty clothes, etc. The two would never see each other.

The big exception to that was nannies. They had to interact with the master, who oversaw the upbringing of his children. Attractive, young nannies were definitely a threat to the mistress of the house and were treated as such.

I think the important factor in that regard is concerns about paternity. Why risk knocking up the maid, with all the complications that would involve, when prostitutes were so readily obtainable?

 

[Whynotyeahwhynot]

Read a Jane Austen, it might bore you to tears. Then imagine what these people might get up to at night. Don't let anyone try and tell you that servants both male and female weren't used to do what wives or husbands wouldn't do.

 

[LisaMayTurner]

A Victorian story must involve horses, carriages, and at least one bad villainous man who has a rude over-active cock. The main female protagonist must be virtuous, yet able to be fun, coquettish, and incredibly sexy in a bookish sort of way. She eventually falls in love with a portrait painter who can't stop getting a stiffy for her while they are out on horseback, so they develop various naughty public scenarios so she can relieve his excitement in wonderfully rude and naughty situations.

 

[Kumquatqueen]

...The other thing to remember is how much people shared bedrooms. To have a room of one's own was incredibly rare, and only well-off older people and the children of the rich managed it. Everyone else was sharing, up to and including sharing a bed.

So for a long time, anything extra-marital or illicit was probably undertaken in the summer, and outside, quietly.

One reason there was a push for better housing in the late Victorian period was the Poverty Maps by Charles Booth and others, finding that many families all lived in one room in a lodging house, often all sharing beds for warmth and lack of space, and interviews showed that often the mother of the household didn't want another baby but having sex was the only thing that stopped the father rolling over her and fucking the eldest daughter instead. Campaigns started for 'decent housing' which at the time meant being able to have parents sleep in separate beds to their teenage children.

Bear in mind how dark it was at night, even with gas street lamps. Even the corners of pubs were pretty dark, away from the fire and the lighting around the bar, reflecting off the cut-glass behind the spirits and the various mirrors. Maybe not in the Saloon Bar (the front room of a pub with carpet, respectable ladies and gents, and drinks costing slightly more), but in the Public Bar (no carpet, working clothes permitted, no decorum...) it wouldn't be surprising for someone to be fucking in the corner in some pubs even when I was a young adult, let alone a hundred years earlier! Just lift up the back of that voluminous dress and petticoats...

 

[Whynotyeahwhynot]

Is that a Hollywood version of Victorian England, I think it might be. Having said that if that's all people know about it then he must write in that style.

 

[AG31]

Good err... morning, darn, I missed the entire evening...

I want to write a historical period piece for Literotica. I searched and searched for prior references here but couldn't find any. It is going to be in the style of Edgar Allan Poe but, of course, I am not that most excellent gentleman. I

I think another principle for writing historical fiction is to be very clear about why you've chosen that genre. Your intent to write an homage* to Poe is a good, clear reason. It will help you with language, for sure. And you needn't add any more physical description about setting and clothing, etc., than Poe did. Someone else might want to delve into the things that happened around some historical event. Someone else might want to take advantage of the more clearly distinguished roles of the sexes. Some may even want to indulge in descriptions of silks and satins flowing down staircases. I, personally, would not enjoy the latter, but many might.

* Thanks to @FrancesScott for this snippet from another thread. As I was noodling over this post I got stuck on whether to use the American "a homage" (pronounce the "h"), or the Frenchified "an homage." FS tipped me over the edge with

Mind Control is an homage

 

[8letters]

I think the important factor in that regard is concerns about paternity. Why risk knocking up the maid, with all the complications that would involve, when prostitutes were so readily obtainable?

My impression is that with prostitutes, you had to wear a condom, which greatly decreased the pleasure of sex. Or take a huge risk of a STD. If you're banging the maid, you don't use a condom and you don't get an STD. Also, with a prostitute, you have to enter a house of ill repute, which, if it became public knowledge, would sully your reputation. Bang the maid, and the public won't hear of it.

My impression is that prostitutes were used by the middle class. The wealthy had a mistress. I read somewhere that Victorian England important public buildings were designed to facilitate the wealthy discreetly meeting their mistresses.

Edit: In some of Georgette Heyer's stories, she talks about a class of prostitutes that only serviced the wealthy. I forgot the term she used for them. Basically, short-term mistresses.

 

[HordHolm]

I think the important factor in that regard is concerns about paternity. Why risk knocking up the maid, with all the complications that would involve, when prostitutes were so readily obtainable?

I think one of the issues was availability. For the upper class, there were the times when the family were in the city, at which point various types of sex workers were freely accessible. Then there were the times when they were on the country estate, when access to sex workers would have been limited, added to which the country estate was larger, with more corners to try to be discreet in. At this point, the servants probably came into the picture more often.

There might also have been kept women, e.g. women from the stage - probably more commonly vaudeville/music hall rather than serious theatre.

For the middle class, there was probably more of a need for houses of ill-repute rather than street-walkers, though for the added thrill of slumming it there were localities (often many) in most cities. The working class, of course, used street walkers and were grateful.

As for women... I'm sure there were a few occasions when the footman or the chauffeur was a bit more handsome than strictly necessary, and out in the country there were gamekeepers and the like. I'm pretty sure that Lady Chatterley's Lover didn't just appear in D H Lawrence's mind out of nowhere, and there were plenty of rumours about Queen Victoria's Scottish servant, John Brown, who started as a ghillie at Balmoral.

Further to @Kumquatqueen. One point regarding lighting... there were always the knee-tremblers in shop doorways as well, but with the downside of many more coppers patrolling on foot. So it was a risk, but a couple could always try to cover up at the sound of approaching footsteps and brazen out any awkward questions. Certainly, World War 2 saw a massive increase in public sex precisely because there was a big drop in the number of patrolling policemen (many of whom were off in a different uniform, or guarding particular buildings).

 

[MillieDynamite]

In the Old West, in Kansas Cattle towns, the better side of town was the north side, as far away from the railroad tracks and cattle pens as possible. In Dodge City, there was a line called the Deadline; everything under the sun was allowed south of the deadline, and the whore houses, gambling dens, opium dens, and worst saloons were located there. North of the deadline was dry with no gambling or prostitution allowed, and it was called the deadline for a reason. If you were from the south side, you weren't permitted to cross that line. Dodge City was formed because a saloon owner was thrown out of Fort Dodge. He moved west a few miles and set up a new town in 1872. It was not until the late 1870s that they outlawed the carrying of guns in Dodge.

The level of filthiness in even the most developed countries prior to the 20th century is almost unimaginable. We were watching the HBO series The Gilded Age recently, and my husband remarked that all the rooms seemed to be decorated with dark colored wallpaper. I pointed out to him that there was soot everywhere. The dark colors hid it, and wallpaper is easier to wipe clean then painted wood walls.

An interesting fact I learned in a Sociology class was that in most cities in the eastern USA, the east side was traditionally the poor part of town and the richer you were, the further to the west side you were likely to live. For example, in Maine, where I grew up, there are still many cities that were established along rivers, because lumber was the main industry and the logs would be floated downstream to the mills. Those mills were always located on the east side of the river, and the workers lived nearby. The upperclass lived on the west side of the river.

The reason for this? Think of a 19th century industrial city. Horses everywhere. Horse shit everywhere. Open sewers.Most homes without indoor plumbing. People heating their homes and cooking their meals with coal or wood. Even in town, many families kept chicken or pigs, even a milk cow here and there. And, of course, the smoke and stench from the factories and mills and slaughterhouses.

In most of North America, the prevailing winds blow from west to east. So, the rich people built their stately homes as far on the west side, where the air was fresh and clean, while the poor were stuck downwind in the stink.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Again, in the Old West, prostitution was a young girl's game. They indentured girls as young as 13 or 14 in the East for a term of seven years and brought them west. Often, they paid the parents, who knew their daughters were going to be whores. They started in the houses, if they couldn't get out of the work after the seven years, it was a relatively rapid fall from house whore, to street walker, to alley scag. Some women found husbands despite being prostitutes. However, they often only traded one pimp for another. They just happened to be in wedded bliss with the new pimp, earning him money to make his life easier..

EDIT: Have I ever mentioned that a lot of men are just PIGS!

In the Old West, in Kansas Cattle towns, the better side of town was the north side, as far away from the railroad tracks and cattle pens as possible. In Dodge City, there was a line called the Deadline; everything under the sun was allowed south of the deadline, and the whore houses, gambling dens, opium dens, and worst saloons were located there. North of the deadline was dry with no gambling or prostitution allowed, and it was called the deadline for a reason. If you were from the south side, you weren't permitted to cross that line. Dodge City was formed because a saloon owner was thrown out of Fort Dodge. He moved west a few miles and set up a new town in 1872. It was not until the late 1870s that they outlawed the carrying of guns in Dodge.

 

[Wonderer67]

I look forward to the finished piece. I love historical fiction.

Any occasional historical erotica!

 

[MillieDynamite]

I've outlined an erotic western set in the 1870s at a small mining town in eastern Wyoming. I borrowed from a few women who passed themselves off as men and fought in the Civil War (which was quite uncivil) to create a woman stage driver who is passing herself off as a man, and her relationship with a woman in the town—lesbian lovers with Lust in the Dust. I haven't thought of a title yet.

I look forward to the finished piece. I love historical fiction.

Any occasional historical erotica!

 

[Wonderer67]

I've outlined an erotic western set in the 1870s at a small mining town in eastern Wyoming. I borrowed from a few women who passed themselves off as men and fought in the Civil War (which was quite uncivil) to create a woman stage driver who is passing herself off as a man, and her relationship with a woman in the town—lesbian lovers with Lust in the Dust. I haven't thought of a title yet.

Would love to see it when it’s done!

 

[onehitwanda]

A Victorian story must involve horses, carriages, and at least one bad villainous man who has a rude over-active cock. The main female protagonist must be virtuous, yet able to be fun, coquettish, and incredibly sexy in a bookish sort of way. She eventually falls in love with a portrait painter who can't stop getting a stiffy for her while they are out on horseback, so they develop various naughty public scenarios so she can relieve his excitement in wonderfully rude and naughty situations.

This is oddly specific.

 

[MillieDynamite]

When I get back to it (which it is on the back burner right now), and I get it up, I'll let you know. But it probably willn't come here for five months after it's up. LOL, won't I meant.

Would love to see it when it’s done!

 

[MelissaBaby]

I've outlined an erotic western set in the 1870s at a small mining town in eastern Wyoming. I borrowed from a few women who passed themselves off as men and fought in the Civil War (which was quite uncivil) to create a woman stage driver who is passing herself off as a man, and her relationship with a woman in the town—lesbian lovers with Lust in the Dust. I haven't thought of a title yet.

When I was writing Abby and the Outlaws, I found this site on Old West slang very helpful.

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-slang/

 

[MillieDynamite]

Yeah, already bookmarked. I have bookmarks on several sites, for the 30s, 40s, 50s, and 60s.

When I was writing Abby and the Outlaws, I found this site on Old West slang very helpful.

https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-slang/

 

[RetroFan]

I write stories set in the past most of the time, including some historical fiction.

I've got a story about the Titanic disaster of 1912, Egyptology in the 1920s, the Second World War, the Big Freeze of 1963, the Moon Landing in 1969, Cyclone Tracy in 1974 and the UK Miner's Strike in 1984, among other stories set at various time periods.

 

[DeMont]

I look forward to the finished piece. I love historical fiction.

Any occasional historical erotica!

@Wonderer67 then it shall be my pleasure to produce this work secure in the knowledge that at least one reader may find it of interest. As for historical erotica, I don't know if you've seen "Bram Stoker's Dracula" with Keanu Reeves, Winona Ryder, Sir Anthony Hopkins and Sir Gary Oldman et al but I assure you there will be a good deal of "historical" erotica.
Deepest respects,
D.