How Do You Become an Optimist?

[Guest]

I think the premise of this entire thread is flawed.

First off, "optimist" is a construct--there's no such thing.

When asked to point to an optimist, people will identify someone who displays an optimistic mindset much more often than not. When asked to identify a pessimist, they'll choose someone who appears to look on the darker side of things more often than not.

There's a continuum from 100% optimistic (deluded, in my opinion) to 100% pessimistic (most likely severely clinically depressed, in my opinion). Virtually all of us fall between those two extremes.

So, the real question isn't "How do you become an optimist?" as if people we identify as optimists are somehow different than we are. They're not--they do things differently, more often, than we do.

And therein lies hope. We can decide to adopt a more optimistic outlook. That doesn't mean we'll do it perfectly, and we shouldn't expect ourselves to--we're setting ourselves up for failure that way. It does mean that, over time, we can choose--again and again, but almost certainly not every time--to look for the hope in a situation and wait to see whether that hope is justified.

If we can do that often enough--51% of the time, perhaps?--then we've become more optimistic than pessimistic.

And that's the best that any of us will ever achieve.

 

[theMaven]

Honestly, I started off life as an optomist. I was young, hopeful and naive. As the realities of the world came crashing down on me, dashing my hopes and crushing my dreams, I became a pessimist. If you only expect bad things to happen, you're not phased when they do.

But, as I've gotten older and gained a bit more of experience (as if I'm an old salt or anything, lol) I've decided that realism is the healthiest outlook to have on life. When good things happen, appreciate them. When bad things happen, deal with them. Anything else is just delusion.

 

[amicus]

I think the premise of this entire thread is flawed.

First off, "optimist" is a construct--there's no such thing.

When asked to point to an optimist, people will identify someone who displays an optimistic mindset much more often than not. When asked to identify a pessimist, they'll choose someone who appears to look on the darker side of things more often than not.

There's a continuum from 100% optimistic (deluded, in my opinion) to 100% pessimistic (most likely severely clinically depressed, in my opinion). Virtually all of us fall between those two extremes.

So, the real question isn't "How do you become an optimist?" as if people we identify as optimists are somehow different than we are. They're not--they do things differently, more often, than we do.

And therein lies hope. We can decide to adopt a more optimistic outlook. That doesn't mean we'll do it perfectly, and we shouldn't expect ourselves to--we're setting ourselves up for failure that way. It does mean that, over time, we can choose--again and again, but almost certainly not every time--to look for the hope in a situation and wait to see whether that hope is justified.

If we can do that often enough--51% of the time, perhaps?--then we've become more optimistic than pessimistic.

And that's the best that any of us will ever achieve.

~~~


Confrontational and a load of slimy sixties crap anyway.

First off it is an abstract concept and not a 'construct' in your fuzzy assed terms.

And concepts, abstract or not, are firmly tied to an epistemological axiom which means they are a continuum of the absolute, not the relative, subjective bullshit you spout.

You advocate and promote a philosophy suitable to Pink Floyd's Wall and the Orwellian vision of the future of man, not the builder and the creator who has a vision of the future and strives to realize it as he 'optimistically' knows he can achieve and reach success.

It may seem like a niggardly point to you and et al, I assure you, it is not; the acquiescence of failure is endemic to your mindset like a disease and as such, should be avoided.

But I do like your choice of GnomeDePlume...sweet...!



amicus the incurable optimist...

 

[Guest]

~~~


Confrontational and a load of slimy sixties crap anyway.

First off it is an abstract concept and not a 'construct' in your fuzzy assed terms.

And concepts, abstract or not, are firmly tied to an epistemological axiom which means they are a continuum of the absolute, not the relative, subjective bullshit you spout.

You advocate and promote a philosophy suitable to Pink Floyd's Wall and the Orwellian vision of the future of man, not the builder and the creator who has a vision of the future and strives to realize it as he 'optimistically' knows he can achieve and reach success.

It may seem like a niggardly point to you and et al, I assure you, it is not; the acquiescence of failure is endemic to your mindset like a disease and as such, should be avoided.

But I do like your choice of GnomeDePlume...sweet...!



amicus the incurable optimist...

Wow... and here I was just trying to be helpful by showing that it is possible to achieve an optimistic outlook. However, I'm sure that your learned discourse will be of far greater practical use.

As to "the acquiescence of failure is endemic to your mindset like a disease and as such, should be avoided" I would suggest you re-read my post. In it, I've defined success in practical and achievable terms; should my definition not fit your preconceptions, so be it--mine is based on over twenty years' work with nearly 10,000 people.

Thanks for the compliment on my name.

 

[amicus]

Hello again Gnome...don't take offense at my usual style...I will however, for your benefit, expand just a little.

I don't question your tenK consultations, however it does stretch credibility jus a tad.

I further do not doubt the efficacy of your efforts to ameliorate the masses in a practical and utilitarian sense/

However, this forum is not composed of teen agers nor even psych 101 attendees, rather a motley group of highly artistic, skilled, competent high achievers, many of them very well educated, who write and think at the fringes of literature.

They are also, as most artists are, really fucked up in terms of philosophy, ethics, morals and especially economics.

Thus, you tend to the Plebes, allow me to minister the elite in my own special fashion.

Folks here, for many reasons, are terribly frightened of the absolute, or axiomatic, self evident truths upon which all existence is based on and rooted in. Subjective opinions, dreams and wishes has no place in a rational discussion of human psychology and that of which I spoke, the innate will to survive and prosper, should be afforded proper respect.

Thus, optimism is not a construct, instead an integral ingredient in the nature of man. Pessimism, like mental illness, is something to be understood and medicated for.

Grins...



ami

 

[Luke's Angel]

Does human nature ever really change?

Can a pessimist become an optimist?

I'm really wondering...

All you optimists out there, how do you do it??

In my limited experience I have found that some people can change their outlook. Most people seem to change as a result of the mental and emotional states of the people closest to them. Miserable people make other people miserable often without conscious thought. Joyful people make the people around them happy.

Sometimes it can be difficult to spot people who are miserable as they like to dress up as joyful people. But make no mistake they are still miserable. Find out what type of people you have around you and make adjustments as you see fit.

Find optimistic people who like what you like and surround yourself with them. Make time to do what you love.

 

[Guest]

Hello again Gnome...don't take offense at my usual style...I will however, for your benefit, expand just a little.

I don't question your tenK consultations, however it does stretch credibility jus a tad.

I further do not doubt the efficacy of your efforts to ameliorate the masses in a practical and utilitarian sense/

However, this forum is not composed of teen agers nor even psych 101 attendees, rather a motley group of highly artistic, skilled, competent high achievers, many of them very well educated, who write and think at the fringes of literature.

They are also, as most artists are, really fucked up in terms of philosophy, ethics, morals and especially economics.

Thus, you tend to the Plebes, allow me to minister the elite in my own special fashion.

Folks here, for many reasons, are terribly frightened of the absolute, or axiomatic, self evident truths upon which all existence is based on and rooted in. Subjective opinions, dreams and wishes has no place in a rational discussion of human psychology and that of which I spoke, the innate will to survive and prosper, should be afforded proper respect.

Thus, optimism is not a construct, instead an integral ingredient in the nature of man. Pessimism, like mental illness, is something to be understood and medicated for.

Grins...



ami

Yours seems a fairly elitist and, one might say, arrogant attitude, ami, but I have no problem with you ministering to what you see as being your flock. I do have some problem with you staking out a public board as your exclusive preserve.

However, as (if I may be so immodest) one of the "motley group of highly artistic, skilled, competent high achievers, many of them very well educated, who write and think at the fringes of literature" I trust that you will forgive me for choosing to seek counsel elsewhere.

Thus, optimism is not a construct, instead an integral ingredient in the nature of man.

Finally, you again misread me. I did not write that optimism is a construct--I wrote than an optimist is a construct.

Edited to add: You're right, ami--I overstated the number of people I've worked with. The actual count is somewhere between 8,000-9,000. My apologies.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

The thing is, I WANT to be an optimist.

I'm just not. I think this, for me, ventures into the realm EL talked about, about spirit, having a faith in something greater... even if it's just Ami's idea of "life." Something.

I want to be an optimist, but I don't know if I ever will be. And damn, it's hard to live around optimists when you're a pessimist. Or maybe "skeptic" would be a better term? I dunno...

Optimists make me want to punch them... or be like them... but I still feel out-of-the-loop in the midst...

and don't ask, I don't know, how someone can be around new life constantly, from newborn babies to the tender spouting of new plants, and not be an optimist. I just don't know.

I've thought several times about this interesting question since it was posted. On one level it's a disposition thing, and in that I agree with you that people don't change. They do learn, however, and also, optimism/pessimism can vary in different realms of life.

I spent the first half of my life thinking that Western Civ was doomed, and that we were "all gonna die" figuratively speaking due to econ or eco collapse. I read Erlich's Population bomb in 1970, and saw no reason to doubt his Malthusian pessimism that hundreds of millions would starve over the next 15 years, even in the USA.

I recall the living through the 1970's gas lines, double digit inflation and unemployment and thinking America was doomed. I signed on to the global cooling frenzy of the late 1970s/early 1980s. I saw no reason to think that the Evil Empire was not a permanent fixture.

I made bad life choices and investments as result of all those views. Finally, in the early 1990s, I had been mugged by reality enough times to say "fuck this" and adopt the big-picture optimism that makes some peoples' teeth grind in the political threads.

On a personal level, I'm definitely the keep-your-expectations-in-check person, hoping not to be dissappointed by day to day events and relationships, but not really expecting it. It's kind of a contrarian psyche strategy, I think: If I don't expect not to be somewhat disappointed, I'm delighted when I'm not. Perhaps that's not a healthy strategy, but I think it is a disposition thing.

I'm also a big "count your blessings" person, which makes my mood - I call it my morale - very steady, varying only a little around a not-bad centerpoint. It seems contradictory to the above, but this makes be generally upbeat as I go through life, since however bad things get I know that I have many blessings to count. Blessings are relative - I recall having very few, and taking great comfort from them. Now I have many more, and am slightly surprised by that.

 

[EmeraldKitten]

Does human nature ever really change?

Can a pessimist become an optimist?

I'm really wondering...

All you optimists out there, how do you do it??

I think I'm an optomist, but I'm also realistic.
I do what I can to keep a positive attitude, but some things are hopeless, lol.
In some ways, I guess I seem to have a child-like view of life.. I'm always looking somewhere over the rainbow.
Even with my sunny outlook, bad things still happen to me. They have to. But the trick is not getting mucked down with it. You have to look at the bad as a learning experience, put on your big girl panties and get over it.
Now, my boyfriend is a negative Norman. He thinks I need to live in the real world.
But I believe that if you think it's going to rain, it will.
I am in the process of reading 'The Secret' by Rhonda Byrnes.
The secret is that like attracts like. Whatever thoughts you put out there, the Universe sends them back. So the more positive you think, the more good things will happen.
My mom was the one that started reading it and told me about it... I thought she was a nut job. The book just made her feel so much better, and she was constantly correcting my sentences, such as:
I said, "I don't have the money to get my nails done."
She said, "You have more than enough! You have plenty, and you deserve it. Go on, say it."
And so we went like that for a week or so before she got me the book, and now I try and word things like that.
The hell of it is, I did have extra money that week to blow on acryllic nails.

Anyways, I'm rambling. I'll shut up now.

I don't know if human nature will ever change, but I do believe that a pessimist could become an optimist. It would take a lot of work, starting with them wanting to change. But it would be hard. They'd have to rewire their brain basically. But you can't let doubts plague you. You have to believe it 100%.
Ask, Believe, and Recieve.

Now I'll shut up. For real.

 

[xssve]

Self delusion. I've tried both optimism and pessimism, and considering they are both equally delusional, optimism has been empirically demonstrated to be healthier as general rule - as long as you don't go jumping off any cliffs without testing the depth of the water first.

 

[Selena_Kitt]

I've thought several times about this interesting question since it was posted. On one level it's a disposition thing, and in that I agree with you that people don't change. They do learn, however, and also, optimism/pessimism can vary in different realms of life.

I spent the first half of my life thinking that Western Civ was doomed, and that we were "all gonna die" figuratively speaking due to econ or eco collapse. I read Erlich's Population bomb in 1970, and saw no reason to doubt his Malthusian pessimism that hundreds of millions would starve over the next 15 years, even in the USA.

I recall the living through the 1970's gas lines, double digit inflation and unemployment and thinking America was doomed. I signed on to the global cooling frenzy of the late 1970s/early 1980s. I saw no reason to think that the Evil Empire was not a permanent fixture.

I made bad life choices and investments as result of all those views. Finally, in the early 1990s, I had been mugged by reality enough times to say "fuck this" and adopt the big-picture optimism that makes some peoples' teeth grind in the political threads.

On a personal level, I'm definitely the keep-your-expectations-in-check person, hoping not to be dissappointed by day to day events and relationships, but not really expecting it. It's kind of a contrarian psyche strategy, I think: If I don't expect not to be somewhat disappointed, I'm delighted when I'm not. Perhaps that's not a healthy strategy, but I think it is a disposition thing.

I'm also a big "count your blessings" person, which makes my mood - I call it my morale - very steady, varying only a little around a not-bad centerpoint. It seems contradictory to the above, but this makes be generally upbeat as I go through life, since however bad things get I know that I have many blessings to count. Blessings are relative - I recall having very few, and taking great comfort from them. Now I have many more, and am slightly surprised by that.

This whole thread was worth it for this post alone. I like knowing more about you and how you came to be you...

 

[Misty_Morning]

How do you become an optimist?

Kinda hard to say.

As for me, I've been put though the wringer, but always managed to be the better one...looking for the silver lining. Sometimes its been difficult. Like tonight. I was having very bad thoughts.

But earlier I had recieved a couple of packages from Grace. In one of the packages was a card. I couldn't open it until the 15th of April.

I just got of the phone with her, we opened it together at midnight my time.

I have never been given a more lovely and thoughtful card......ever.


So, an hour ago I wanted to not exsist....but now I can't wait for tomorrow.


What does it take to become an optimist?



Love.


*thank you baby*

 

[amicus]

Thank you, Misty, for sharing that...



ami...

 

[patrick1]

learned optimism

I still remember a friend lending me a book when I was down called 'Learned Optimism'. I found it deeply depressing. Full of exhortations to believe in outcomes that probably wouldn't happen.

Me I'm a cheerful pessimist. Everything tends towards disorder, I know, yet I so love order. But I see the wryness of it all: when God made man, she was only joking.

patrick

 

[Selena_Kitt]

What does it take to become an optimist?
Love.

We have a winner!

Now, if I could just REMEMBER that... why is it so easy to forget?

 

[amicus]

Sighs...we are into almost a century of nihilistic, existentialist pessimism.

One might suggest, with ample supportive evidence, that the ill fated, 'war to end all wars' the First World War, was a tentative starting point, although the anti industrial revolution weenines, ala the Charles Dickens types, got an earlier start.

In the interim between the two world wars, European colonian nations watched in horror as the old way faded and hunkered down as the Huns grew in strength. The Hemingway, Wilde, Joyce, Fitzgerald, bohemian contingent came into full voice, along with the socialist utopians as the world turned a deaf ear to the oncoming holocaust.

Pessimism has become endemic for a population of pointy headed doomers and gloomers who truly believe that mankind is on a down hill slide on the proverbial slippery slope towards extinction.

Such a deal....( and all wrong)

But then...I waste my foney bingers on this forum to speak truth...find it yourself should you get the urge....


ahem....

ami

 

[xssve]

Speaking of long dives into shallow pools, as I say, both are equally delusional. ^

 

[curiositykitten]

All you optimists out there, how do you do it??

FAITH

CK

 

[amicus]

FAITH

CK

~~~

First thing you do is take a breath. That tells you that you are alive.

Depending on your age, you can be appreciative of the length of time alive, and place enough value on that life to respect it.



...then...smell the roses...

Amicus...the eternal optimist...