How influential are comments?

[jezzaz]

Cross posted from another thread because it’s relevant here.

My latest has managed to attract some really nasty snide and spiteful commenting. Loving Wives recently has really started to look like 4 Chan in its commenting.

One thing I’ve really started to notice is that people will comment if you are have god level stories, and then it’s a stream of ‘this is so great!’ Over and over again. Lovely for the ego, but it doesn’t do much to make you a better writer.

Otherwise it’s a litany of complaints about anything and everything, real or imagined. Very little constructive criticism, mostly just complaining that it’s either too short or too long, not enough details, too much detail, and my favorite ‘this character wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) behave like that’. As though characters are real and have their own lives.

There’s this weird need for a specific type of reader to project themselves - or an idealized version of themselves - onto the characters and what they do, and they get majorly bent out of shape if they don’t behave as the reader ‘thinks’ they should.

There’s a tremendous amount of entitlement from readers, that you as an author, because you’ve decided to spend the time and effort to write something, somehow owe the reader exactly what ever they think they want. Because they’ve decided to read it, you somehow owe them a story tailored to their desires.

Lit commenting is a post child for the old adage ‘if something is given freely, it is considered of no value by those receiving, and treated as such.’

In terms of ‘does it influence me?’ No, not really. I’ve added a chapter to one story years ago simply because I realized I hadn’t given a point of view from the betraying wife, but I’ve never gone back and changed anything based on comments.

I have, however, written a sequel to a story because so many commentators asked, and I wish I’d never done that. Sequels are never as good as the original. Always keep them wanting more is good advice, that I should have paid attention to. But no, my ego was flattered and so…

My top amount of comments is just hitting 850 on one story, and honestly, there’s about 8 comments in there which is actually worth anything, nice though it is to get that kind of attention - and in Loving wives, too, which is a notorious hive of scum and villainy.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

It's certainly not out of the ordinary, but it is still grossly misunderstood, so misunderstood that people get upset and angry if you try to show them the truth about it.



Providing a reading experience and/or making a connection, and seeking applause and affirmation are two very separate things. However, they are related. Writing to share that connection, to offer that experience, is writing from the heart. Writing for the external affirmation is writing from the ego. It can be very difficult to tell the difference. In fact most people can't. And if you try to explain this to them, they become offended, "Ohhh, you say I write with ego, well fuck you! Who do you think you are?" which is really the ego getting pissed off and confirming that they are writing from ego. And the answer is, "whether you realize it or not, well yes, you are writing from your ego." It's just the truth. And I'm not saying that anyone is wrong for writing from the ego but I am saying that one would be wise to recognize when they are or aren't so that they do not kid themselves about their own writing. You are not wrong to write from your ego, but you are wrong to believe that you are not when you actually are. Because unless you can maintain the attention of readers like silkstocking does, writing primarily from the ego will probably eventually kill your writing. It will certainly limit your inspiration in the long run.

Writing from the heart and writing from the ego is a spectrum. One cannot write 100% from the heart and also a little bit for the ego. It's not possible. Personally I always strive to write 100% storytelling from the heart. Am I doing it? Difficult to measure. Maybe I am 96% heart 4% ego, or maybe 92/8 or 99/1 or something, and certainly a little different on each story. But there are many writers here that are obviously more than 50% ego (some way more) and less than 50% heart, and only maybe 1 or 2 will actually admit it. It's super easy to tell by the way that they talk about their scores and feedback and sometimes even their literal motivations.



Are you kidding? Look how many people live and die on comments and scores?



Chaptered stories are usually the biggest examples. The vast majority of chaptered stories are written one chapter at a time, and the following chapters are influenced and inspired by the positive feedback and external affirmations of the previous chapters. It's a plague of meandering soap operas that more often than not have no end. Why? Because the writer is addicted to the affirmation and when it dwindles and stops, the writing dwindles and stops. It's super easy to spot.

My personal opinion on the nature of the phenomenon:

1 ~ someone gets the idea to write a story, a genuine inspiration to create something. They are writing from the heart (or largely or very close to 100% heart).

2 ~ They publish and get lots of positive feedback, probably unexpectedly good or strong. It's a pleasant surprise and they want more.

3 ~ They feel the high of the external affirmation which pulls their motivation/inspiration more towards the ego, maybe 80% heart 20% ego).

4 ~ They publish the next chapter and it gets less feedback but still positive.

5 ~ They feel less of a high but think that it's just variance and that they can get the original high back again with chapter 3. The motivation/inspiration moves to 50/50 heart/ego to chase that external affirmation high.

6 ~ They publish chapter 3 and the feedback is less, partly due to fickle readership who have lost their excitement in general and partly due to the lack of genuine inspiration from the writer. The high is even less.

7 ~ The cycle repeats and after chapter 5 or 6 (or 11 or 15 etc) the inspiration moves to 20% heart 80% ego, the feedback trickles, the high is gone and the writer quits writing due to lack of motivation (can't get the high anymore).

Notice that the cycle repeats. It's an addiction. It's a downward spiral of diminishing return of energy. It's a dead giveaway that someone has been writing primarily from the ego and no longer from the heart, whether or not they realize it themselves. I don't need to make any assumptions nor read anyone's mind (as I often angrily get accused of). I can see it in plain sight (and you can too if you know what to look for).

It's exactly like an addiction. The writer is chasing an external energy source (smokes, drinks, drugs, sex, etc) and the more that they turn towards it, the bigger dose they need to stay high, and when they reach the point where it is impossible to maintain the high, they overdose and die - or in the case of the writer, they quit writing (writing death).

And remember, most of the readers are addicted too, usually to their kinks. When a writer gives them something that hits their kinky fantasy and everything works out the way that they want, the reader gets an external high. That's why they give 5s and ask for "more!" The writer feeds the addiction. How many readers on lit read this way? 60%? 70%? 80%? (shrug)

I don't think that there is an author in existence who can fully negate what you call "the influence of ego" on their writing. It's human nature. And I agree that if it becomes the primary source of motivation the product will likely suck.

I can also easily agree with what you said about chaptered stories, that some people steer their future chapters based on reception and feedback. For some, it's a purely commercial decision (Patreon model and such) but for some, I agree, it's to try to get even better scores - what you call pandering.
Yet I believe that's a foolish approach as chaptered stories rarely get plenty of comments, so it often comes down to steering your story based on a comment or two. That seems idiotic to me, even if one's goal is to improve their scores, as one or two comments can't possibly represent the desires of thousands who didn't leave any feedback at all. In the Patreon model, at least patrons get to vote so you know you are giving your financial supporters what they want.
That is why I said what I said about chaptered stories - because I don't believe that the approach you mentioned actually results in an improvement in scores of chaptered stories. The improvement, among other things, is mostly due to those who don't really like the story being filtered out over the course of many chapters.

As I already said, the most pandering that happens here on Lit is when authors try to copy the theme and the plot of a story that did very well with the readers, such as the backseat mom and similar, and not because they are truly interested in the theme but because they think it will bring them laurels and followers. Now that's pure ego and pandering in my book.

 

[Belegon]

comments have definitely impacted some of my style elements, especially in my early days of writing for the site. I became a better writer by taking some of the advice to heart. Much of what really helped me grow came more in PM's or here in the AH though.

As far as motivating me for future stories, ABSOLUTELY. But I can't remember ever going back and doing a complete rewrite to satisfy commenters. And those times where I have continued a story directly because of comments have, IMHO, resulted in some of my weaker efforts.


The most angry/aggressive comments I think I've ever received was not a story here on Lit but a co-written work published by a now defunct e-pub called Phaze. Imp and I had a series we wrote for them and in the third "book" (really more a novella in length than a novel) we wrote a character into the story whose entire purpose from the beginning called for her to not survive the story. Fortunately or unfortunately, we had a clear enough vision of her that she almost immediately became a fan favorite. Her demise in the same story ended up generating an awful lot of anger among some of our readers, but we resisted the urge to resurrect her because we really didn't have anything else for her to do. She was the sister of our female lead for the series. I seem to remember we discussed the possibility of using her as a main character in a spinoff prequel, but we never did write that. At the time we had a few sets of characters and story arcs we were following and we also were trying to put out as much new content as we could to help us increase our sales and following. Trying to shoehorn a "dead end" prequel into our world-building wasn't a thing we felt would help in the long run.

 

[Rollinbones]

Some of my harshest comments have come from stories that readers invested the most in. That was really important feedback to me. I studied how I built those characters and have tried to emulate it in other stories. Also, the hate when you write something challenging and real… those comments mean more than the floss on schmaltzy things.

 

[Belegon]

I've never made major changes based on comments, But I can imagine myself doing so if someone got me thinking. I have written at least one story that was only written because of how many were asking for a sequel, but I wrote it for the wrong reason and the characters in the story were entirely based on me and a girl I dated in college. Because I didn't use actual events in the sequel, I found that I wasn't in nearly the same mindset and I feel that the result is one of my weaker stories on the site. The story it is a sequel of is perhaps my BEST work on the site, mostly because I was very comfortable writing it because I knew exactly where it was heading. I think it has my best dialogue here. Wingman won the annual award for Best Erotic Couplings story in 2004, so I must have done something right.

 

[Seadog777]

Naw.
The comments do not influence my stories at all.
I do delete the really horrible comments.
A few have even made me crack up laughing.

 

[grey228]

Ultimately, do you write stories for your entertainment, or did you write a story for the least common denomination of an audience?

I write for myself - stuff I like to read or re-read.

 

[flatiron2]

I write chaptered stories, but that's because I enjoy developing characters as much as writing sex scenes. I'm all too familiar with the scenario where the first chapter gets a big readership that eventually fritters away into a core readership of maybe 1/3rd the size of the number of people who read the first instalment, but I'm OK with that, because I love letting my characters live inside my head. Is that ego? Hmm. Not to me it isn’t.

I've written one standalone story, just to see what it'd feel like. To me, it felt like creating a premise that couldn't then go anywhere.

I know I've let one story meander along too long - my first one, and come to think of it, maybe also my second - but since then, I think I've gotten better at keeping the story on track and knowing when to wrap it up. I abandoned one after three chapters because it wasn't working, but there's been three tales where I'm really happy with their length and resolution. I'm not gonna lie, it's intensely satisfying when you post the last chapter and a small handful of readers respond to it in the way you'd hoped.

I wish I had more interaction with readers, whether that be through comments or through them contacting me, but I’m not sure how to encourage that. Any clues?

 

[StillStunned]

@EmilyMiller mentioned a while back, when I remarked on how many comments her stories got, that perhaps it helped that she always replies to each of them. So that's what I'm doing with my latest story. At the very least, it means you show up twice as often in the "recent comments" list, so that's twice the visibility.

But I also wonder whether commenters feel more appreciated if the author interacts with them. (And for anyone who's commented on my latest story: yes, I really do appreciate it, I'm not just replying for selfish reasons.)

 

[TheLobster]

@EmilyMiller mentioned a while back, when I remarked on how many comments her stories got, that perhaps it helped that she always replies to each of them.

This definitely sounds like an effective strategy. Assuming I’m not off in my calculations, it would lead to exactly… *add three here, carry over one there* …twice as many comments!

More seriously, though, I haven’t considered the “recently commented” list. I wouldn’t think many readers go specifically fir stories with a high comment activity, but since the list is shown on the category front page, it must result in some extra traffic.

 

[ShelbyDawn57]

@EmilyMiller mentioned a while back, when I remarked on how many comments her stories got, that perhaps it helped that she always replies to each of them. So that's what I'm doing with my latest story. At the very least, it means you show up twice as often in the "recent comments" list, so that's twice the visibility.

But I also wonder whether commenters feel more appreciated if the author interacts with them. (And for anyone who's commented on my latest story: yes, I really do appreciate it, I'm not just replying for selfish reasons.)

I don't reply to comments very often in the comments section, but I do reach out to non-anonymous commenters directly if their comments touch me.

 

[Nynah]

I know it's not the case most of the time, but I feel like replying to comments in my own stories feels a little self-serving. I still do it because I know that certain commenters do like that level of interaction with authors, especially if their comments have asked for continuations or specific questions about events/characters. I'll usually wait until a fair bit of time has passed so I can answer a bunch of them at once.

Whenever I receive commentary through the Feedback portal, I always reply if someone leaves their email because at the bare minimum it feels like the polite thing to do. I've also developed a few lovely correspondences that way as well so that has been a pleasant surprise.

On topic: comments do have a direct influence on my at times, though the scale is never very large. I try to straddle that line between writing for myself and listening to what the people who read my work are saying. Obviously I'm going to try to stay true to myself and I ultimately have the final decision in the way things go, but I have added an extra paragraph of exposition here and there in response to a previous query if I found it reasonable enough.

 

[cadeauxxx]

Comments are only influential if you allow them to be.

Many people today have thin skin and seem to forget that you can simply delete the troll comments. I've been getting them for almost 10 years. I've even had several comments telling me to kill myself. The entire internet is filled with trolls and they're always going to be there hiding under anonymous comments.

On the other hand, positive feedback is a good ego boost for sure. But they tend to get left out as it's easier to remember the negative stuff that bothers us.

 

[THBGato]

More seriously, though, I haven’t considered the “recently commented” list. I wouldn’t think many readers go specifically fir stories with a high comment activity, but since the list is shown on the category front page, it must result in some extra traffic.

I often find new stories to read that way.

 

[Davidbeer1]

I find that fewer than one reader in a thousand leaves a comment, or about a tenth of those who give a rating, which is a more realistic estimate of the proportion of people who read the story. Obviously, those who do take the trouble to comment deserve to be encourage and taken notice of, but we can't assume that they represent the whole readership.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

Influential... Hmm.

While I watch scores, I like pay more attention to comments. I have, for instance, a devoted troll who seems enamored of dropping point bombs; I accord him about as much thought as he devotes to pushing his mouse button. Now, a commoent, even if negative, requires some thought and is therefore worth more of my time. I am therefore influenced more by comments by points.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

I've been getting them for almost 10 years. I've even had several comments telling me to kill myself. The entire internet is filled with trolls and they're always going to be there hiding under anonymous comments.

I'd be so lucky to get such attention. : P

 

[AwkwardlySet]

@EmilyMiller mentioned a while back, when I remarked on how many comments her stories got, that perhaps it helped that she always replies to each of them. So that's what I'm doing with my latest story. At the very least, it means you show up twice as often in the "recent comments" list, so that's twice the visibility.

But I also wonder whether commenters feel more appreciated if the author interacts with them. (And for anyone who's commented on my latest story: yes, I really do appreciate it, I'm not just replying for selfish reasons.)

That's my experience as well even though Em does tend to take replying to comments to extremes.

You don't need to reply to every "Loved it!" comment, but to those that contain actual feedback? You should, IMO. Many commenters do not check the stories again to see if the author replied but some do, and seeing you appreciating and replying to comments might encourage more readers to offer feedback. I mean, no one likes to feel ignored, so I think replying creates a positive feedback loop that benefits everyone.

 

[THBGato]

I drop regular commenters a thank you note via the feedback option on their profiles (or if they are writers themselves, I'll usually go and read something of theirs and leave a comment). Replying to comments just seems... I don't know. I guess, when I joined here last year, I tried to model my behaviour on various writers I admired so that I didn't accidentally breach any site etiquette, and none of those replied to comments via the comments.

 

[Actingup]

Comments are awesome. I think that the majority of comments are useful, and some of them bring out insights that I hadn’t considered, or hadn’t articulated well enough. Mostly, that just gets stirred into the pot of learning towards the next story. Also, the fact that so many of them are simply affirming gives confidence to stick to my guns.
However, in the couple of stories where I’ve submitted corrections, I know that comments have been influencing me - it’s hard to resist the temptation to make tweaks. But not to rewrite, so far.

 

[OnePaige]

Like most responding here I appreciate the positive comments and ignore/delete the trolls, though comments are few and far between anyway. I recently posted a story that was a response to comments on a request I made in my profile because the first two chapters of a three-part story didn't include the payoff (brother/sister intercourse) and that was deemed to be the reason they got especially low ratings. I pulled the first two and published a longer story that takes everyone to that happy ending. It's just been up a couple of days and still is one of my lower-rated pieces, but not as low as the earlier parts.

I've posted several stories requesting feedback and the mods sent one back saying I couldn't do that. Direct feedback is even rarer and I always respond to that, but replies are very few for reasons unknown. Not complaining - all feedback is an opportunity to grow as a writer.

 

[ElectricBlue]

I've posted several stories requesting feedback and the mods sent one back saying I couldn't do that. Direct feedback is even rarer and I always respond to that, but replies are very few for reasons unknown. Not complaining - all feedback is an opportunity to grow as a writer.

Literotica is a feedback lite zone. My metric, after ten years and 140 or so submissions, is one comment per thousand views. If your comments ratio is better than that, your writing is probably very good or very bad. LW is the exception to this "rule".

You could start a thread in the Feedback Forum, if you really want feedback on a story. That forum can be slow, but if you focus what you are looking for by way of feedback, you might get something.

 

[kitmarlowe]

Literotica is a feedback lite zone. My metric, after ten years and 140 or so submissions, is one comment per thousand views. If your comments ratio is better than that, your writing is probably very good or very bad. LW is the exception to this "rule".

You could start a thread in the Feedback Forum, if you really want feedback on a story. That forum can be slow, but if you focus what you are looking for by way of feedback, you might get something.

I was curious about these numbers and wanted to see how I'm doing early in my career so I've just checked. I'm currently sitting at 11 comments on both of my stories, one with 17.4k views and one with 6k, which averages out to about one comment per thousand. The one with fewer views is also the higher rated of the two.

This feels like a really useful metric to have in mind.

 

[D_K_Moon]

How do the comments on your stories influence you?

I don't pay attention to them, nor do I let them influence me.

 

[ElectricBlue]

This feels like a really useful metric to have in mind.

if I average everything out over the decade, every story, it's a lower ratio overall. But for those stories that I know are better (by my own self-reference, mind), it's still a pretty good indicator. It would be nice to get more, and to have more interactive comment threads. Maybe next year, haha!