How mandatory is a decent plot to you when writing erotica?...

[Davide_UK]

OF COURSE you need a decent plot, whatever your writing about (Jesus!)

 

[LiathLis]

It Matters to me

I really enjoy the stories that make the characters real to you, then you have something invested in how and why they are getting off.........maybe that's a female touchy feely sentiment? Don't get me wrong if I find a really good sex scene in a story I'll come straight back there for erotic inspiration at a later date.

 

[JayinCA]

To me, erotic fiction without plot has its place--and its place is in the Penthouse Forum. Worth the price, too, since I bought the magazine (well, the last time I bought a Penthouse, anyway, which is probably a couple of decades ago) for the pictures, which makes the words free.

Those are vignettes, and vignettes don't need anything more than the barest excuse for the participants to get together and get their clothes off. But stories? To be a story, a piece of writing has to have a plot, and characters who are more than just body parts attached to objects with first names.

So that's what I want when I read, and that's what I strive for when I write. Steam, pictured below, is definitely erotica (at least, it got me hard when I was writing it), but it's also a bit of a horror story, with a plot that extends beyond the fucking and groping. I've published a lot of short fiction and longer fiction, under different names, and now that I'm moving into erotic fiction, I'm applying every bit of craft to it that I do to the rest.

It's not worth doing (or reading), otherwise.

 

[cocput]

I have written erotic stuff less than 800 words (in other sites) with plot, so i feel that the distinction suggested between 'porn' and 'erotica' is bogus.

IMHO, any story without sufficient plot is not going to be read. Even if you are only going to write a single scene, you still need a beginning, a quick character description, events leading to the sex, and the actual sex scene.

The difference between a 750 word story and a 50 lit-page story is more about the amount spent on plot development. If there is a plot with lot of sub-plots, then the story will be longer. If it is only a short stroke then plot will be tighter. But without plot, the story is just going to be in waste bin.

I have written stories with tighter plot as well as a 22K story. I am in the process of what is turning out to be a 75K+ three part story. I enjoyed writing them all.

As a reader in lit, I like to see plot getting developed with enough details. The build-up is what turns me on. I usually skip all single page stories in lit. If i need to read a short story, there are other sites which are more in tune with my special sub-genres.

Personally, without a decent plot, the story is not worth writing.

 

[Innuendos]

Personally, I'm inclined to think that while a great plot might not be essential, a good one can make up the difference where the erotic side is lacking. I'd posit myself as the example - as someone who is not new to writing, but is an absolute novice to writing erotica, I get the distinct impression that having an established plot structure, beginning, middle and end and all that, coupled with quality writing, is what keeps a lackluster vanilla sex sequence from being completely rejected. A better balance is needed for really good scoring, I imagine, but a quality plot can make the difference.

 

[Cruel2BKind]

I have written erotic stuff less than 800 words (in other sites) with plot, so i feel that the distinction suggested between 'porn' and 'erotica' is bogus.

IMHO, any story without sufficient plot is not going to be read. Even if you are only going to write a single scene, you still need a beginning, a quick character description, events leading to the sex, and the actual sex scene.

The difference between a 750 word story and a 50 lit-page story is more about the amount spent on plot development. If there is a plot with lot of sub-plots, then the story will be longer. If it is only a short stroke then plot will be tighter. But without plot, the story is just going to be in waste bin.

I have written stories with tighter plot as well as a 22K story. I am in the process of what is turning out to be a 75K+ three part story. I enjoyed writing them all.

As a reader in lit, I like to see plot getting developed with enough details. The build-up is what turns me on. I usually skip all single page stories in lit. If i need to read a short story, there are other sites which are more in tune with my special sub-genres.

Personally, without a decent plot, the story is not worth writing.

Now what you consider a decent plot though, that's what makes us curious

 

[cocput]

Now what you consider a decent plot though, that's what makes us curious

Example:
There was one story I did, came out good out of fluke.
From one of my gay chikan entries in a different site:
A reserved straight guy enters a long distance bus. He meets a chikan, who makes a pass at him. Suddenly he realizes the other aspect of his sexuality. The conversations that they have leads to the beginning of a new friendship. They decide to continue the relationship.

The full story was 800 words. The character formation here is very basic. It was posted n a chikan speciality site, so the story was intended for people with the inclination. I just brought the story to a place where long-term relationship is possible and left the rest to reader's imagination.

The niche category in that site revolves mostly around how the person is able to extract sexual favors in compromising positions. A major user base were either closet gays, or bi-curious.

Doable boss. I am sure that there are good writers around who would be doing it in a consistent manner.

 

[DonovanCrane]

I think plot isn't quite so important as atmosphere, character, and so forth. But, then, I'm a fan of James Joyce, and he didn't exactly dedicate his novels to telling a story so much as presenting a "slice of life" image. In place of plot, I would stress the importance of context. In the real world, much of what we experience is not part of some linear chain of events leading logically from A to B to C. Why should our fictional characters have lives of so much more clarity? Context, however, will provide why the characters are together, how they relate to one another, and make their interactions more meaningful without the assumption that they live in a story.

As to what I think was the main point of this thread, I think a story fails as erotica if it simply describes sexual activity in graphic detail. Erotica (distinguished from porn) provides so much context that we become interested in the characters and can experience, through the narrative, much of what they do, and the erotic takes place on multiple psychological levels. I guess my general theory on the matter is that erotica deals with emotional, intellectual and physical appeal, whereas porn appeals only to the base, physical drives involved.

All just my opinion, of course. Other's experiences I'm sure will have formed more or less differing opinions.

 

[Matadore]

Well stated. Good to read focused exposisition.

 

[fireminx]

The tease and the chase are exquisite to me .... Plot makes it a romance novel.....

 

[nakdsub]

Different strokes for different folks...

It all depends on what the reader is looking for, how are you supposed to guess? There is an audience for all of it.

Personally I like a good story line, but I've read some things with no plot at and that made me hot as a firecracker and I enjoyed it immensely. On a recommendation one time, I read a piece on bondage. I'm not normally into stories on that subject, but like I said, it was recommended. I believe it was the, "The Collar," but I'm not sure. It had no plot at all, but it was one of the most erotic stories I've read.

I believe it's more important to concentrate on doing, what ever you do, well. If you do that you will find an audience.

 

[AliciaASU]

I believe a proper plot adds depth to the story. If you take the time to develop setting, characters, and in depth plot it allows the reader to really visualize, even outside the erotic parts. After all, erotic literature is still literature

 

[HeyAll]

I think another way of looking at is that the theme can be equally important than an actual plot line.

Meaning, you can make a great story that has no story progression or goals, but there is a sexual theme that's runs through the story.

For instance, there's no actual goal or suspense in the story in terms of finding out what happens next, but the two characters discuss a theme of age relations (if it's a younger/older story) or their love of voyeurism, ect....

 

[therealvixen]

I think plot isn't quite so important as atmosphere, character, and so forth. But, then, I'm a fan of James Joyce, and he didn't exactly dedicate his novels to telling a story so much as presenting a "slice of life" image. In place of plot, I would stress the importance of context. In the real world, much of what we experience is not part of some linear chain of events leading logically from A to B to C. Why should our fictional characters have lives of so much more clarity? Context, however, will provide why the characters are together, how they relate to one another, and make their interactions more meaningful without the assumption that they live in a story.

As to what I think was the main point of this thread, I think a story fails as erotica if it simply describes sexual activity in graphic detail. Erotica (distinguished from porn) provides so much context that we become interested in the characters and can experience, through the narrative, much of what they do, and the erotic takes place on multiple psychological levels. I guess my general theory on the matter is that erotica deals with emotional, intellectual and physical appeal, whereas porn appeals only to the base, physical drives involved.

All just my opinion, of course. Other's experiences I'm sure will have formed more or less differing opinions.

Absolutely fully agree with your observations.

An erotic story without a believable background or setting, makes the characters less believable, if the characters are not believable then it cannot be truly erotic...only porn.

 

[nakdsub]

Here is the story I was talking about...

Again, I believe different strokes for different folks. Saying erotic without a plot is porn I think is extremely judgemental.

Here is the story I was talking about. No plot, but I challenge anyone to say this is not erotic.

http://www.literotica.com/s/the-collar-4

 

[MichaelinChina]

Absolutely fully agree with your observations.

An erotic story without a believable background or setting, makes the characters less believable, if the characters are not believable then it cannot be truly erotic...only porn.

I totally agree as well.
Donovan has hit the nail squarely on the head here.
First in relation to the importance of context.
And second, he has, in a short few sentences, clarified the important difference between erotica and porn.
I'd been looking for an explanation; now I believe I have it without wading through a complete literature review of the topic.
Hopefully it will make my writing richer, instead of mere so called 'stroke stories'.
Thanks again.

 

[MichaelWest]

Very.

When I write there is always a story, sometimes a wider one acting behind just what is written. Rather than parse between the erotic or pornographic, I think in terms of depth.

A mere vignette may appear pornographic due to its brevity and focus, whilst an indepth tale with great exposition of background, motivation, characters and setting feels more erotic. At bottom, if I am titilated it is erotic for me. And sometimes I want to read just a single moment of lust realized, and othertimes I want to follow lazy paths to passion enjoyed.

 

[MichaelinChina]

I think you need to ask yourself what exactly you are trying to accomplish. If your main objective is to get someone off quickly, then go for the short and direct pornesque stories. If you want to engage your reader, stimulating them through your writing, then you will have to go the erotica route.

I personally think there is a place for both types. Personally, my story choices all depend on my mood and what I want to accomplish. If I have time and want to really enjoy the build up then I will read erotica; if I just want to 'get off' then I go for something to the point. I do notice though that it is much harder to find a well written, pornesque story. Many have frequent spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors which annoy me and detract from the story.

My apologies for veering off topic but I wanted to say I agree with the last couple of sentences.
Spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors annoy me too. And yes they DO detract from the story. But either a wall of silence or indignation is the typical response when you point out, in a comment to the author, not just the errors, but the reason for not correcting. There's no excuse for poor writing. Tools are there for checking spelling and grammar. Moreover, some authors need to understand that spellcheck has to be overruled occasionally. It's as if the author never bothered even to reread their story. If they care so little, why bother writing and submitting their (there?) work at all?
My 2 cents is spent. Thanks.

 

[Mrtouf]

I think they're checking something other than the spelling when they re-read it.

 

[KlaytonFrost]

Excellent thread. This is something I've wondered myself a good many times, and it's great to be able to read what other people think about it.

For my part, it depends on mood. Sometimes all the preamble just annoys me, but sometimes it all adds to the tension and mood, and so is as integral as all the little details.

 

[glenbrown69]

I like both, but I tend to write (not that I've written much) with a plot.

 

[lovecraft68]

I enjoy both writing and reading stories with a plot.

To me a well thought out plot and good build up really helps the sex deliver.

I personally get more out of the sex scene if I feel I know something about the characters and that's hard to do in short stroker stories.

 

[BuckyDuckman]

Wow, this gets to be like asking what makes a story a story?

Without a plot, I don't know if you really have a story. But I don't think erotica requires as much of a plot as other forms of writing.

I just submitted a story about three couples who end up having sex together (not approved yet) and when I was done, I was disappointed with the story because the characters are paper-thin, no real depth. As for a story, that's thin, too. The plot is mostly, "How far will they go?"

However, I do believe it's okay for a plot to be simple and direct. The stories that make me happiest happen when the characters are fun, the writing style works, and there's a sense momentum to it. The story of a journey is a plot, so, how I got from here to there works well enough.

 

[Pomegranate_Seed]

Doesn't it depend on how one defines plot?
I think sometimes a conflict or a character development, however subtle, suffice in place of a plot.

I find no plot and a tortured plot equally frustrating, as a reader. But not nearly as frustrating as characters I cannot care about. I need something to hold on to.

 

[RodenAddison]

My apologies for veering off topic but I wanted to say I agree with the last couple of sentences.
Spelling, punctuation and grammatical errors annoy me too. And yes they DO detract from the story. But either a wall of silence or indignation is the typical response when you point out, in a comment to the author, not just the errors, but the reason for not correcting. There's no excuse for poor writing. Tools are there for checking spelling and grammar. Moreover, some authors need to understand that spellcheck has to be overruled occasionally. It's as if the author never bothered even to reread their story. If they care so little, why bother writing and submitting their (there?) work at all?
My 2 cents is spent. Thanks.

I agree as well. I think good writing includes correct grammar, spelling and punctuation. I think you've succeeded as a writer if the reader gets through the story, enjoys it and doesn't find distractions. Errors in these areas may not make the story so you can't understand what's being written about, but they can really throw a wrench into the flow of the writing. The best writing will never have someone going back over a passage to figure what you were trying to say, or have them wondering what the hell defenestration means. (Monty Python fans already know). If the story has to be read with a dictionary, you've missed your target audience.

Defenestration: The act of throwing someone or something out of a window.