I am skipping church today.

[Marsipanne]

I've never been a religious person. Parents are both scientists, so I've always looked in that direction for answers, rather than some omnipotent being. I went to a roman catholic primary school though, so I do know the Bible reasonably well. I know it well enough to stop people trying to convert me. I always just say 'if going to a roman catholic primary school didn't convert me, nothing will'. My ex-best friend told me she cried thinking about the number of people in the world who were going to hell. I am positive, however, that no matter how many prayers she makes and how much she claims to be Christian, I'm a better person than she is. She's the most hypocritical/lying/deluded person I know.

 

[lewdandlicentious]

That's the reason I manage to go to church (when I do). My main connection to faith (in goodness, hope, etc.) is other people. Their faith keeps me hopeful. Not that that's what you meant Lewd, just used your lines as a connection. P.

No problem P, no problem at all.

As I've said before, I certainly DO NOT believe in god.

My faith is in myself, and the goodness in people as a whole.

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

Did you go to Blarney's church again?

Apparently so.

I find it really hard to be funny after hearing "she swallowed the bottle of pills...haha..." How do people get that callous?

Sorry, as I was saying. After the burning a traveling raven salesman named Odin helped me down and gave me some nice coffee. All I have to do in return is lock some guy named Loki under the Earth for awhile. Should be a peace of cake.

 

[Guest]

Sorry, as I was saying. After the burning a traveling raven salesman named Odin helped me down and gave me some nice coffee. All I have to do in return is lock some guy named Loki under the Earth for awhile. Should be a peace of cake.

Probably will be easier to handle Loki than to find logic in that other thread.

 

[SeaCat]

In all seriousness.....I think we all struggle with our faith, at some point, whatever that faith may be.

You don't have to go to church.....I believe that our "church" is all around us.

Cloudy,

I think you very succinctly put into words where the major faiths of the world are losing their struggles. Our beliefes, wether they are in a devine being(s), in science, etc. all revolve around our loving and understanding of nature and our parts in it. Therefore our church is what is around us at any and all given times. As for what is taught to, and is believed by those who refuse to think for themselves, well I suppose a church is a grand place to meet those who want to fleece you of your goods and rights.

Cat

 

[champagne1982]

I went to church today, there was a special D-Day commemorative service. If we forget those who died, we forget the cost of freedom.

'Nuff said. "There are no atheists in foxholes."

 

[cantdog]

They did that at "my" church, too.

There are, of course, atheists being the secretary for churches. It really is nothing like a foxhole.

I read a lot of history. There's no danger I'll forget D-Day. Those "greatest generation" folks became very lousy parents, though, a lot of them. PTSD wasn't acknowledged as well then.

What they did with their PTSD is button it down under the grey flannel suit. The Anglo-Saxon way of dealing with emotions and desserts is often similar. Freeze them and hide them in your belly.*

cantdog

* Nero Wolfe

 

[cloudy]

Cloudy,

I think you very succinctly put into words where the major faiths of the world are losing their struggles. Our beliefes, wether they are in a devine being(s), in science, etc. all revolve around our loving and understanding of nature and our parts in it. Therefore our church is what is around us at any and all given times. As for what is taught to, and is believed by those who refuse to think for themselves, well I suppose a church is a grand place to meet those who want to fleece you of your goods and rights.

Cat

Thank you.

I have a rather un-convential upbringing to thank for my views on church and religion. I think organized religion is becoming worthless. It's become a place for others to judge you by your clothing, or how often you go rather than what it was intended to be.

I think a little differently than most, I believe, on this topic, but that's just me.

 

[cheerful_deviant]

I think a little differently than most, I believe, on this topic, but that's just me.

I don't think you're as far off from the mainstream as you think.

I believe that organized religion has, for the most part outlived it's usefulness. And I believe that you're right on how it is a place to be judged by others.

Several months ago I had to sit thru a sermon on how all Gays were immoral and were going to hell. Then the preist went on to say how all politicians who supported gay rights were also going to hell. If I didn't have my 2 year old daughter with me and hadn't been sitting in the middle of a row I would have walked out, I was so disgusted. I haven't gone back since and I don't plan to.

I do believe that there is some form of higher order out there but I don't believe that we humans have got it all figured out correctly.

I don't believe that if I don't go to church every Sunday and take communion and and obey somebody elses interpertation of what is right/wrong, I'll go to hell. I believe that if I try to live my life by my own moral compass I'll be ok. Will I be a saint... no. But will it turn out to be a pertty good person... yes. I think that's what we will ultimatly be judged upon.


Those are just my thoughts, take them for what the're worth,

CD

 

[cloudy]

I don't think you're as far off from the mainstream as you think.

I believe that organized religion has, for the most part outlived it's usefulness. And I believe that you're right on how it is a place to be judged by others.
<snip>
I don't believe that if I don't go to church every Sunday and take communion and and obey somebody elses interpertation of what is right/wrong, I'll go to hell. I believe that if I try to live my life by my own moral compass I'll be ok. Will I be a saint... no. But will it turn out to be a pertty good person... yes. I think that's what we will ultimatly be judged upon.


Those are just my thoughts, take them for what the're worth,

CD

I'm probably a little further from the mainstream than you realize - I follow a very, very old way...but that's neither here nor there.

I've always looked at church as something akin to school - you go to learn. And just because someone's major was different than mine in college doesn't make them any holier than I am. They may know the bible better than I do, but that's why I think of it as "class."

I don't believe you have to go to a certain place, at a certain time, on a certain day to be a good person. In that I completely agree with you.

If you have a good heart, and you follow what it tells you, then you're okay with the world.

 

[destinie21]

I'm not into church but I do have an unshakeable faith. Me and God are tight, he's answered many a prayer for me and mine.

 

[cantdog]

Several months ago I had to sit thru a sermon on how all Gays were immoral and were going to hell. Then the preist went on to say how all politicians who supported gay rights were also going to hell. If I didn't have my 2 year old daughter with me and hadn't been sitting in the middle of a row I would have walked out, I was so disgusted. I haven't gone back since and I don't plan to.
- - -<>
I do believe that there is some form of higher order out there but I don't believe that we humans have got it all figured out correctly.
- - -<>
CD

Our pastor is female. This kind of place, a church, is the only kind of place left in our society where people can be not just sexist, but quote Scripture to defend it, and preach it to others as if it were the word of the godhead on the subject. Same with homosexuality.

God put the tits there, and I don't think He pees His pants every time some sheila lets them jiggle. God made a person gay or feel like he got the wrong gender assignment, He has no business torturing anyone eternally about it. Eternal torture is a wonderful idea, all by itself.

How anyone can keep on going to such a place is a mystery to me.

cantdog

 

[Guest]

 

[Lucifer_Carroll]

[SERIOUS] I went into a church when I was in elementary school and they had a long spiel about how only the followers of their religion were going to heaven and that the followers would not need to complete any good deeds or even be good people, they just had to have faith. I never returned.

Later in my life, Douglas Adams died and I asked a Christian friend if he would go to Hell for being an atheist and without bating an eye he said yes. Since then I've been a member of a religion that does not send good men like Douglas Adams to Hell.
[/SERIOUS]

Yeah, Sarahh, Loki is actually a breeze to take care of. Taught me a great drinking game last night. Although, I can't seem to find him today. Hmmm, and my ship of dead men's nails that has the big warning sign "Danger may cause Ragnarok" on it seems to be missing. Oh, well. It's probably nothing. Dum dee dum dum dum.

 

[cantdog]

Altho...

One thing a church does, and does very well, is provide community. The people in this church care about each other, support each other, tolerate their weirdos, love their children. Old people and the incarcerated receive many visits, people who are sick are missed and looked after.

If you can find one that doesn't drive you distracted with their ridiculous pronouncements, this is precious beyond all hope.

Moving to a new place, it's an instant network and support. Finding a church in a hostile new city could be a very shrewd move.

Just saying.


cantdog

 

[Guest]

Re: Altho...

One thing a church does, and does very well, is provide community. The people in this church care about each other, support each other, tolerate their weirdos, love their children. Old people and the incarcerated receive many visits, people who are sick are missed and looked after.
cantdog

Yes.

And that's why, even though I don't care about missing church, I still feel a little guilty about not being at the service to see everyone. I feel as if I'm letting down those who are worrying about me and my family.

I've been choir director for several years but chose to take a leave of absence last fall. So this means everyone knows me. They are accustomed to seeing me conducting, performing, whatever. Therefore my absence is somewhat noticeable (especially since some choir members have been begging me to come back - some are, some aren't - LOL).

AND Vacation Bible School started today.

*sigh*

After I took our children I stayed a bit to watch. Everyone was so damn nice and "happy to see me" it made me all weepy and feeling sorry for myself.

Positively hopeless.

 

[cantdog]

I'm not surprised to find you involved in music. It's not my place to say, but I hope you can resolve this in a good way and keep your integrity and recover your joy.


cantdog

 

[Guest]

I'm not surprised to find you involved in music. It's not my place to say, but I hope you can resolve this in a good way and keep your integrity and recover your joy.

cantdog

What a beautiful thing to say.

Thank you -

 

[Liar]

Re: Altho...

One thing a church does, and does very well, is provide community. The people in this church care about each other, support each other, tolerate their weirdos, love their children. Old people and the incarcerated receive many visits, people who are sick are missed and looked after.

See, this is what I miss from not being a church person. Born and raised completely atheistic and secular (although I kind of rebelled against that and have admitted the posibility of deity), I have never had those meeting nodes for a geographical community. I know my closest neighbors, but that's about it. The rest of the hood is a panorama of familiar faces with no names passing by below my balcony.

That may sound depressing, but no worries about me, I have a very rich and active circle of friends and social life, but it is not with the people I pass on the streets where I live. My social nodes are elsewhere, and though I can't say that the church as in insitutuon of religion does anything for me, I kind of envy those who can let it play a part in their community.

#L

 

[cantdog]

I'm lucky that way.

I got in the back door, so to speak. They know I'm not a member and won't be, and a lot of them know I'm atheist (which, as you say, is also a position of faith; the only intellectually rigorous platform is agnostic). But I've been on mission trips to the Dominican Republic. Helped build a bakery, some schools, a hospital. Met a lot of amazingly resilient people in despicable poverty.

They just have a little bit of trouble facing the facts: but I don't proselytize them, and largely, they leave my beliefs alone as well.

Not the way every church would act, mind you.

cantdog

 

[SlickTony]

My church has a mission down in the Dominican Republic--Hogar de Ninos. I wondered how if the floods down there had affected it, but I guess it hadn't--otherwise, we'd have heard.

 

[cantdog]

I've been putting the word out, and I got a couple of indirect reports. Nothing directly from the people I know on the island, though. But why would they talk to me? I'm not leadership.

I think there really was a lot of compromised electricity for a while, which is why no one heard much. I also am afraid there'll be lots of starvation out of it, since crops in the ground often do poorly flooded, to put it mildly. With the incredible inflation of the peso, no one will be able to buy much, either.

I'd try to get real dollars or some hard currency to anyone I cared about down there.

cantdog

 

[SlickTony]

Thanks for the input. I'll ask around at the church.

 

[cantdog]

Wish I'd known. I'll PM you if I get some real news.

cantdog