I know this is probably no the right thread but........

[Red Sonja]

From a legal standpoint... in most states currently if any state-sponsored/subsidized services will be sought for the child, the mom is obligated to supply the name of the putative father. Even if she doesn't want to... even if it is a headache... the states do not wish to be burdened because a teenage kid didn't use a condom.

So, it really isn't the future mom's choice to seek child support, if she doesn't seek it... the state will seek it for reimbursement for any WIC, any medical assistance, food stamps, etc.

She might as well get the money. And yes, the dad can have visitation. It doesn't matter. He has rights. If she decides to put the child up for adoption, he has to sign off on that too. It isn't her decision alone like it is for abortion.

My thoughts are with you...

 

[Sir_Winston54]

From a legal standpoint... in most states currently if any state-sponsored/subsidized services will be sought for the child, the mom is obligated to supply the name of the putative father. Even if she doesn't want to... even if it is a headache... the states do not wish to be burdened because a teenage kid didn't use a condom.

So, it really isn't the future mom's choice to seek child support, if she doesn't seek it... the state will seek it for reimbursement for any WIC, any medical assistance, food stamps, etc.

She might as well get the money. And yes, the dad can have visitation. It doesn't matter. He has rights. If she decides to put the child up for adoption, he has to sign off on that too. It isn't her decision alone like it is for abortion.

My thoughts are with you...

Just a note: Le Kinklet lives in "the land down under," where the rules are not necessarily the same as those in the States. They may be less restrictive concerning the father contributing to the child's upkeep, etc., and more liberal concerning the mother's right to surrender the child if they are not married or in a live-in relationship of some standing. And then again, they may have adopted the US posture in some of these areas, as they seem to have adopted so much from the States in the legal arena of late. The point, however, is that we cannot assume from our experience/knowledge with/of US laws that laws in other countries are the same, or even similar.

 

[le_kinklet]

Kinklet, having followed this thread from its inception but not wanting to intrude, I now find myself almost compelled to respond, particularly to the underlined portions of your post quoted above.

Underlines 1 and 4: If your physical state will not allow you to care for a baby at this time, what makes you think it will be that greatly improved in six to seven months? Neo-natal care is one of the most exhausting things a person can take on, particularly when it's not their neo-nate they're taking care of! Since you already have the responsibility for the care of your second child, which may be part of the reason you say your condition would not allow you to care for a baby now, do you expect her condition to improve enough in that six-seven months to make you "all better" enough to care for a baby?

Underlines 2 and 3: Dabbling in criminal behaviors; disappearing for days and turning up drug affected. She's not dabbling in crime. She's behaving in a criminal and uncontrolled manner. She needs more care than you can give, especially given your other daughter's condition. While this may feel shameful, it is merely a matter of reality - she needs serious, custodial, assistance to try to turn her around, whether she wants it or not.

Underlines 4-6: Your older child is, by your own admission, a danger to your younger. That merely underscores the importance of her needing some serious therapy in a controlled setting.

Bottom lines:
This child should not be taking care of a baby. She can't/won't take care of herself. For her to have and keep a baby is nearly to guarantee a tragedy, either soon after the birth or when her child gets old enough to have a child.

You don't need to be in a charge of a baby - you have enough to do with your second child.

IMO, only two of the three alternatives are remotely sensible: abortion or giving the child up for adoption. Of the two, I personally greatly prefer the latter. Let a family who wants a child, who can take care of a child, and who perhaps cannot have their own for whatever reason(s), give it a chance in life.

There is no shame in admitting that you cannot control this child, and referring her to someone who makes rehabilitating children with problems so they might have a decent chance in life. There is no shame in admitting that you could not adequately care for a baby, and that she could not, and surrendering the baby to someone who can give it a better opportunity.

As I said, however: This is my opinion, and you can take it or leave it - but you did ask for our thoughts.

Thank You Sir W, you said all the things i could not find the words for. In 6 /7 months my condition will not have changed, i know this for a fact, my situation will never change unless some sort of miracle happens. Having said that, i would still take on the baby, i would find a way to cope.

She has been in care for 2 years, trying to get her to go to counselling is a joke, and the department are just as much a joke as she seems to get praised when she returns not locked up like she should be for breaking her bond. So i am trying to figure how she learns from this.

Thank you for your opinion, i would not have posted if i was not looking for honesty!

 

[le_kinklet]

I'm sorry for the position your daughter has put you in, but I have to ask something:

Is it worth jeopardizing the physical, emotional and economic well-being of three people in order to spare your older daughter the possible emotional pain of having an abortion?

Having a baby and giving it up isn't necessarily any emotionally easier than having an abortion and I'd venture to guess that it's often much harder. Also, if your daughter has substance abuse issues then it's likely that she will not give birth to a healthy baby which will make it harder to adopt. Is that a risk worth taking in order to spare her feelings?

And why are you sparing her feelings? She's done something incredibly irresponsible. She's put not only her own life in danger but is also risking her sister's well-being and yours to say nothing of the child she's carrying. Some people do turn their lives around for their children, but from what you've said about your daughter's prior behavior and that of her friends I'd say the odds aren't good.

I notice that you were talking about "d-day" and perhaps that means it's too late at this point to consider terminating the pregnancy. If that's so then I wish you the best of luck. I'll send good wishes your way.


-B

I am trying to be very careful not to influence her either way, she is still trying to make a decision either way. Again i do agree with all you are saying and am thinking about them all also.

Is it worth all that!! Myself as a child constantly told i would never amount to anything, i now feel all children are worth it no matter how bleak it might look! And with that particular sentence permanently etched in my head, i will and do go above and beyond the call of duty!

Shit looks like i need counselling !

At this point she is 5 weeks along so there is still a little time, and she is still undecided.

Thanks for your input!

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Thank You Sir W, you said all the things i could not find the words for. In 6 /7 months my condition will not have changed, i know this for a fact, my situation will never change unless some sort of miracle happens. Having said that, i would still take on the baby, i would find a way to cope.

She has been in care for 2 years, trying to get her to go to counselling is a joke, and the department are just as much a joke as she seems to get praised when she returns not locked up like she should be for breaking her bond. So i am trying to figure how she learns from this.

Thank you for your opinion, i would not have posted if i was not looking for honesty!

Having had some dealings with the (US) "juvenile justice" system (working in the juvenile court system, not being a subject of it, lol), you can go to the judge/administrator (whichever is appropriate), and complain about the department not enforcing the sentence/judgment/restrictions placed on her, and force them to do it right. Most of them are so overworked, they do as little as they can to get by until the kid is either beyond redemption or the court forces them to do what they're supposed to for a particular child. I would suggest that you talk firmly to the child's caseworker; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to his/her supervisor; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to the judge/administrator. And let them know up front that you intend for them to fulfill their duties, and that if they feel incapable of doing that, then the court will find someone who can. You needn't be nasty - just firm and knowledgeable of your rights as a parent.

 

[FurryFury]

Le Kinklet, I'm so sorry to hear all of this! If you had told us the entire story at the beginning I think you would have gotten some very different reactions.

In any case, good luck to you and yours!

*hugs*

I know how you feel, in a way. At one time I was terrified my Mom was pregnant when she was on drugs. Then it wasn't just, this baby will be mine to take care of, but also, will it be drug addicted or damaged? They were legal drugs but still, it was a very scary situation.

Fury

 

[graceanne]

Re: Child support and parental rights

I LOVE OREGON. Not only do we have an entire agency devoted to making fathers pay child support, but they do their job. The only time they don't is if the mother says that she's afraid of what the dad will do to her or the child/ren if he has to pay childsupport. If it ends up at that agency they just take it out of the fathers check. And if they're behind they take it out of any tax return they get. So if a dad owes his ex money on childsupport and he's getting, say $1000 from tax return, that refund is sent to his ex, not him.

Plus, if they say it's not their child they make them go through testing. If they don't show up they are automaticaly considered the father. Then if they miss enough visitations the state says they've neglected their child and they loose parental rights. My best friend found out she was preggo two months after breaking up with her boyfriend. He said it wasn't his, so the state gave him three chances to show up for DNA testing. He didn't, so he was put as the father. The state now sends my friend a check every month that is taken from his pay check. (A little over $500 for one child - you really don't want them involved in child support.) He makes too much money to get a tax return but if he did she'd get that too since he owes her two years worht of child support. He also has no parental rights. My friend can do anything and he has no say. If she wanted to move to Nevada (which she sorta does) she would,a nd the state of Oregon would continue to send her her child support.

 

[le_kinklet]

Having had some dealings with the (US) "juvenile justice" system (working in the juvenile court system, not being a subject of it, lol), you can go to the judge/administrator (whichever is appropriate), and complain about the department not enforcing the sentence/judgment/restrictions placed on her, and force them to do it right. Most of them are so overworked, they do as little as they can to get by until the kid is either beyond redemption or the court forces them to do what they're supposed to for a particular child. I would suggest that you talk firmly to the child's caseworker; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to his/her supervisor; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to the judge/administrator. And let them know up front that you intend for them to fulfill their duties, and that if they feel incapable of doing that, then the court will find someone who can. You needn't be nasty - just firm and knowledgeable of your rights as a parent.

I have tried this, just not gone as far as you said, and i will be looking into as soon as i have finished here!

I am not sure how things work in the US but kids here have all the rights and the parents are left wondering why they ever became parents in the first place. Basically you can provide for the child eg home clothes food love and support, but if you try to disipline them you are up on assault charges whether it be physical or verbal, bottom line as parents in Australia we are not even aloud to chastise our kids for misbehaving, instead we have to cuddle tell them it is alright and send them on there merry way to do more damage.

 

[le_kinklet]

Le Kinklet, I'm so sorry to hear all of this! If you had told us the entire story at the beginning I think you would have gotten some very different reactions.

In any case, good luck to you and yours!

*hugs*

I know how you feel, in a way. At one time I was terrified my Mom was pregnant when she was on drugs. Then it wasn't just, this baby will be mine to take care of, but also, will it be drug addicted or damaged? They were legal drugs but still, it was a very scary situation.

Fury

Hmm i was trying not to put a bad spin on things, after all, she is my daughter, and in the long term i do feel she will grow up. Maybe wishful thinking but i do have high hopes for them both they are both very intellegent especially the eldest her IQ has been rated in the top 10% of the country. She is an incredible artist. her caracatures (ignore spelling) are fantastic, she can paint, and of course she had used it to her advantage in working the system!

 

[FurryFury]

Hmm i was trying not to put a bad spin on things, after all, she is my daughter, and in the long term i do feel she will grow up. Maybe wishful thinking but i do have high hopes for them both they are both very intellegent especially the eldest her IQ has been rated in the top 10% of the country. She is an incredible artist. her caracatures (ignore spelling) are fantastic, she can paint, and of course she had used it to her advantage in working the system!

I understand! You always have to have hope for your kids!

Fury

 

[le_kinklet]

Re: Child support and parental rights

I LOVE OREGON. Not only do we have an entire agency devoted to making fathers pay child support, but they do their job. The only time they don't is if the mother says that she's afraid of what the dad will do to her or the child/ren if he has to pay childsupport. If it ends up at that agency they just take it out of the fathers check. And if they're behind they take it out of any tax return they get. So if a dad owes his ex money on childsupport and he's getting, say $1000 from tax return, that refund is sent to his ex, not him.

Plus, if they say it's not their child they make them go through testing. If they don't show up they are automaticaly considered the father. Then if they miss enough visitations the state says they've neglected their child and they loose parental rights. My best friend found out she was preggo two months after breaking up with her boyfriend. He said it wasn't his, so the state gave him three chances to show up for DNA testing. He didn't, so he was put as the father. The state now sends my friend a check every month that is taken from his pay check. (A little over $500 for one child - you really don't want them involved in child support.) He makes too much money to get a tax return but if he did she'd get that too since he owes her two years worht of child support. He also has no parental rights. My friend can do anything and he has no say. If she wanted to move to Nevada (which she sorta does) she would,a nd the state of Oregon would continue to send her her child support.

I wish it was that easy here!

 

[graceanne]

I have tried this, just not gone as far as you said, and i will be looking into as soon as i have finished here!

I am not sure how things work in the US but kids here have all the rights and the parents are left wondering why they ever became parents in the first place. Basically you can provide for the child eg home clothes food love and support, but if you try to disipline them you are up on assault charges whether it be physical or verbal, bottom line as parents in Australia we are not even aloud to chastise our kids for misbehaving, instead we have to cuddle tell them it is alright and send them on there merry way to do more damage.

I feel for you. If a law like that is ever passed her we'll be moving, and I'll be homeschooling. I will not allow the state to ruin my childrens lives with their stupid laws.

 

[FurryFury]

I have tried this, just not gone as far as you said, and i will be looking into as soon as i have finished here!

I am not sure how things work in the US but kids here have all the rights and the parents are left wondering why they ever became parents in the first place. Basically you can provide for the child eg home clothes food love and support, but if you try to disipline them you are up on assault charges whether it be physical or verbal, bottom line as parents in Australia we are not even aloud to chastise our kids for misbehaving, instead we have to cuddle tell them it is alright and send them on there merry way to do more damage.

Whoa! That seriously bites. I'm not kidding, that is just wrong.

It doesn't work that way in the U.S. In general here you have to have documentation of instances of serious abuse and/or neglect. Unless, that is, someone with money, influence or just a bug up their ass, to target you.

I totally think you have some duties to your kids to instill in them certain values and make them feel the consequences when they violate them.

We do home school btw and the reason why is because my kids begged me to.
We have seen great results from doing this too, socially, academically and on the home front too.

Fury

 

[le_kinklet]

I feel for you. If a law like that is ever passed her we'll be moving, and I'll be homeschooling. I will not allow the state to ruin my childrens lives with their stupid laws.

I just wish that the people that feel it is their right to tell kids they have rights, would make sure that the kids understand the responsibilty of those said rights.
My theory is that the kids hear they have rights and zone out when it comes to hearing their resposibilties!

 

[le_kinklet]

Having had some dealings with the (US) "juvenile justice" system (working in the juvenile court system, not being a subject of it, lol), you can go to the judge/administrator (whichever is appropriate), and complain about the department not enforcing the sentence/judgment/restrictions placed on her, and force them to do it right. Most of them are so overworked, they do as little as they can to get by until the kid is either beyond redemption or the court forces them to do what they're supposed to for a particular child. I would suggest that you talk firmly to the child's caseworker; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to his/her supervisor; if you don't get satisfaction there, go to the judge/administrator. And let them know up front that you intend for them to fulfill their duties, and that if they feel incapable of doing that, then the court will find someone who can. You needn't be nasty - just firm and knowledgeable of your rights as a parent.

i am waiting for the appropriate person to ring me back, she is out of her office right now! I will let you know how far i get with this!

 

[FurryFury]

I just wish that the people that feel it is their right to tell kids they have rights, would make sure that the kids understand the responsibilty of those said rights.
My theory is that the kids hear they have rights and zone out when it comes to hearing their resposibilties!

Responsibilities and rights should go hand in hand. IMO.

Fury

 

[le_kinklet]

Just a quick note to thank you all for your support, but at this moment my daughter is miscarrying. She had an ultra sound last thursday that revealed that the baby is not forming properly and that it may already be dead, I spent all of friday at the hospital with her due to excrutiating abdominal pain, they sent her home to wait for her appointment with the choices clinic in the womens hospital in the city, but today she is back in hospital and is going in tommorrow for a temintation and curette (ignore spelling).
The doc has said that it is because even though she is capable of getting pregnant, her body is still to young to cope with it.
So thank you all again your support and encouraging words they meant more than you all could possibly know!

 

[Vixandra]

I hope she's feeling better soon and has learned something very valuable from all this.

*hugs*
And again, bless you for caring enough to be beside her, even if she vexes you greatly.

 

[FurryFury]

I'm so sorry Le Kinlet!

Fury