I'm not comfortable with something.

[MelissaBaby]

Find the ones who can.

Yeah. What am I? Chopped liver?

 

[MelissaBaby]

I consume a lot of fiction, mostly crime, spy/thrillers, and sci-fi/fantasy.

Taking the first category as an example, the murder rate is probably far higher than it is in reality in the UK, and on television, the series Midsomer Murders famously has a far higher murder rate (32 per million) than in the UK. The second category is probably overstated in fiction, and the third is definitely unrealistic.

In other words, much regular fiction is exaggerated, so why should erotica be 'holier than the pope'?

It's a long running joke in Maine, that there were more homicides in that one town on Murder, She Wrote, then in the whole state in reality.

 

[BeechLeaf]

While I can understand the appeal of fantasies and exaggerations, it no longer interests me. Good writing about realistic people and situations is far more enjoyable than explicit sex scenes. And many of our best writers cater to that: very good writing, complex and flawed people.

 

[bbcbarry9033]

IMO, this is likely true in general but less likely true among authors that hang out on AH. My guess is this forum attracts the most dedicated craftspeople who are not doing much of what you're seeing, and when they do they've put their own fresh spin on it. And it's easy to abuse a trope when you're newer and don't know where the line between "trope" and "cliche" is (I'm guilty of this).

Still, I've been on a bit of a deep dive about tropes lately and I found a couple that I've been inadvertently overusing, so it's always worth looking at my work and seeing whether the patterns that emerge are "me leaning on a trope" or "my authorial voice". Personally, I found that I overuse the "short girl" trope and don't add any of my own insights or experiences as someone who isn't tall ... I just have a lot of short girls hooking up with taller guys and I can't explain it (well, I can explain it, I just don't ever explain it in my stories).

Don't beat yourself up. Short, petite, fun, spinners, are as attractive as tall dark and handsome strangers. Nothing wrong with it.

 

[Kelliezgirl]

Most, if not all, of my characters are flawed, both physically and emotionally. Without that thing's don't feel real.
That said, some people want perfect characters doing perfect things, and that's okay too.
The great part about Lit is there is room for nearly anything.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

My world is so tilted, I have to dig for that 'perfect' image. I need it to be that way since I can't.


People like Katerina Rozmajzl have become the image prototype, even though I'd imagine she'd be quite difficult to be around.

 

[Voboy]

My world is so tilted, I have to dig for that 'perfect' image. I need it to be that way since I can't.


People like Katerina Rozmajzl have become the image prototype, even though I'd imagine she'd be quite difficult to be around.

There's a current thread that could move in that direction.

I don't dig for the perfect image; I find a way to make the existing image perfect, be it an image based on reality or my imagination.

I'd never heard of Katerina R. I looked her up and, honestly, that ain't anywhere near my prototype. But my prototype is usually more mental than physical.

 

[lovecraft68]

My simple response to the OP's post is:

So what? This is an erotica site, not the Hallmark channel.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

To add to what others have said here, it can also depend on how the story is framed/told. If it's just a third-person omniscient description of a physically perfect, godlike human with a twelve inch dick, tits the size of beach balls, and no emotion behind the description, well, that strikes me as the kind of poorly written infodump stories anyway.

The good stories are the ones where we see the target of a character's affection through THEIR OWN eyes, and, let's face it, when someone's in love (or at least in lust), they tend to see people's flaws a little less and the parts they like a little more. Almost everyone has some beautiful aspects to them, or at least aspects that at least some people will find beautiful, so that's what the character will see. So it's not always necessarily describing perfect human beings, but describing ordinary human beings from the perspective of someone who feels like everything about them is perfect.

I myself tend to try to include descriptions that show the imperfections, but are also presented as positive. Things like a character thinking another's frizzy hair is cute, or reflecting on how the lines on another character's face lends an elegant grace to their appearance, or things like that. Because to me, real people are flawed and it's often the flaws, rather than the perfections, that make us beautiful and unique. So include a reference to that cute little mole on the character's neck, or the slightly-too-big teeth that make a character look like a chipmunk when they laugh.

As for how many people participate in 'the lifestyle', I think people are far more kinky than we assume, even if not necessarily public about it. Once I reached the point in my life where I confronted my toxic upbringing and shed myself of the indoctrinated stigmas, I began to learn a hell of a lot more. It's amazing how many people will begin to open up to you once you start listening with acceptance rather than judgement. I'd say that far more of the friends with whom I've had open, honest conversations about sexuality participate in some level of kink than not. I do know several who go to the clubs and all that, but far more who experiment at home with their committed spouses or partners in various ways, even if they have little interest in sharing that beyond a few candid conversations with close friends.

And that's not even counting the people who I haven't talked to directly but who have said things with the right amount of ambiguity just enough times to make me go "hmm..."

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Just to follow up, here's an excerpt from one of my WIPs that I think highlights the sort of thing I'm talking about:

Clicking on the singular available image to enlarge it, I again noticed the warm, alluring smile, and the red hair. At the higher resolution, I could see that, contrary to my initial impression, this was no perfectly immaculate pornbot thirst trap designed to draw in unsuspecting chumps. This was an actual, real person with real imperfections.

I was at the point in my life where, rather than being unattractive, those kinds of imperfections added a depth and richness that only served to enhance a woman's appeal for me. I could just make out the faintest hint of laugh lines, as well as just a few faded hairs scattered here and there among the red, giving me the impression that the color of the rest of it was still natural. At the very least, if it <em>was</em> a dye job, it was a REALLY convincing one. All in all, I found myself quite captivated by her appearance.

 

[MrHereWriting]

But why can't some of us reflect that in our writings?

I'm writing sex fantasies, not about the emo cutter next door who'll let me fuck her up the ass because she has daddy issues . . .oh, wait a minute, let me write that idea down.

 

[FromManyOne]

But why can't some of us reflect that in our writings? Why do we go to extremes in character descriptions (eg., impossibly perfect appearance and stamina) and situations that are not possible, likely illegal in most places and even if not, literally no one would engage in?

My "Unicorn" is explicitly (pun intended) about very ordinary-looking people. The situation they're in (married couple proposing a threesome) is not impossible, just unusual.

Yeah. What am I? Chopped liver?

That's one unusual fetish you're implying, speaking of unusual.

 

[TheRedChamber]

There's a few layers to the question.

Firstly, speaking as a man, the average woman is beautiful. By definition, she is of average attractiveness, but we still very much like how she looks. There is research that shows that when men are asked to rate photographs of women out of ten the average comes out ~well~ above 5. Women rate men lower. Age complicates things, but I wont dive into that atm.

In some of my stories I've used literal Playboy models (well, literal generic brand Playboy...) as a short hand for the MC meeting someone who has 'official' super-attractiveness. Most of my female characters though are just in the 'average but his type' range. I'm reminded of David Mitchell's line about "Love is two people who are just slightly deluded in each other's favour."

Regarding behavour, it's probably nice to play with this more than people do. In terms of negative traits, it's pretty easy to write nervousness and repression that melts away as the story progresses. Impulsiveness can make a story happen. Those who like humiliation have no problem writing cruelty. Again, I generally believe most people are essentially nice. I am pondering at the moment what other flaws can be included in a plot without making the character seem too unattractive.

That said, I have written a fair few stories about couples who are not quite on the same page about what is going to happen that night.

Regarding what goes on, well, "Sex is like socks. You know there are tons around, but for some reason you never seem to actually have any." Most people don't have a particularly - um - creative? Outgoing? sex life, but some people do. Most people do it 'behind closed doors' or at least in the bushes at night, so when it does become public it tends to be nasty. Epstein, Diddy or a quick read of what actually went on in the Playboy Mansion is enough to put me off writing the 'millionaire orgy' trope. I've always read newspaper stories about car-keys-in-bowls swinging and dogging and wondered to what extent it actually happens, but as long as it has happened once it's fair game for a story. And you can see swapping clubs and dungeons-for-hire advertise on the Internet and they don't go out of business year after year.

There are also the many and various claims made by the AH regulars in the anonymity of this forum...who even knows about those?

I tend to like to try and make first times in a non-vanilla activity or setting semi-realistic and I think that's part of the fun. Equally though, once you've done something a few times it becomes just another part of daily life and starting off a story with an established couple who do 'that' can also be fun.

But it's not the only appoach. If your kink is peanut butter, then you can write either a chance meeting with a girl who also loves peanut butter, you can write a world where everyone is into peanut butter sex, or you can have your MC inexplicently walk into a room where three people are already making a human PB and jelly sandwich. As always, write what you want to write.

My rule is that any lengthy AH post should yeild at least one plot bunny, so I'm now thinking about a burglar who breaks into a big mansion, has to hide when the owners come home, but then, when it turns out tonight is orgy night, and not everyone knows everyone else, he (or she? Hmm) strips naked and tries to brazenly walk out the front door. And obviously gets distracted en-route...

 

[PennyThompson]

I myself tend to try to include descriptions that show the imperfections, but are also presented as positive. Things like a character thinking another's frizzy hair is cute, or reflecting on how the lines on another character's face lends an elegant grace to their appearance, or things like that. Because to me, real people are flawed and it's often the flaws, rather than the perfections, that make us beautiful and unique. So include a reference to that cute little mole on the character's neck, or the slightly-too-big teeth that make a character look like a chipmunk when they laugh.

I adore these kinds of details as well!

I love looking at people. Older, younger, male, female, nb, I love observing details of faces and bodies. If you look long enough, many of the things we consider flaws can become lovely, especially when coupled with interesting and positive personalities

 

[Andreas_Kreuz]

I believe the trope stories (beautiful, perfect people in fantasy situations) are abundant because they are easy. A wild fantasy of a fantastic person replaces subtlety. This makes life especially easier for new authors. Just let the transgressive concept carry your through your first story. It helped me with my first story. Some authors then begin to evolve their craft, which often results in becoming more realistic. But this is arduous. Balancing flaws, complex feelings, psychology takes effort.

Others don't go that route and that's fine too.

 

[TheLateNightFantasy]

I've tried to hint at it before in a couple of other threads.

In life, relationships are generally two people with similar lifestyles and interests. How or where the two meet can vary wildly, but they rarely stray outside that couple. No matter who they are, or how they meet, they never involve family, almost never multiple people (without breaking up) or any number of things we see here. We'll leave out any discussion of fantasy characters or creatures for obvious reasons.

They people involved are never the perfect human specimens portrayed here. I've been around some really 'beautiful' people and they can be extremely difficult and downright unpleasant.

But why can't some of us reflect that in our writings? Why do we go to extremes in character descriptions (eg., impossibly perfect appearance and stamina) and situations that are not possible, likely illegal in most places and even if not, literally no one would engage in?

Yes, there are clubs, 'dungeons', groups, lifestyle resorts and what not, but what real percentage of humans participate? Stories here paint the picture that these things are the norm and almost all adults partake. In fact, the numbers are likely quite small. I get the fantasy and fiction/dream angle.

And yes, I know some strive to write stories more based on real life, even their own.



I'm not sure where I'm going here because my mind isn't well any more. It drifts uncontrollably. I may add more later.

I think your right about most relationships, my wife, who not only my sexual partner but also my best friend is the object of all but 2 of my sexual fantasies and even then they are not far from reality. Being slightly autistic and never mastered forming relationships, if another woman expressed interest in me as per one fantasy have, I believe after 1/4 century with the same woman I would probably decline.

I, like others read stories hear similar to those who watch TV which generally ridiculously attractive people in impossibly ridiculous situations as it a safe escape from reality.

Most fantasies and stories here are far beyond what most would experience and I actually don't like some of the really popular themes Including wife sharing and cuckold but that's why we escape here....complete fantasy world.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

Firstly, speaking as a man, the average woman is beautiful. By definition, she is of average attractiveness, but we still very much like how she looks. There is research that shows that when men are asked to rate photographs of women out of ten the average comes out ~well~ above 5. Women rate men lower. Age complicates things, but I wont dive into that atm.

This seems like an interesting topic. Could you link the research?

 

[TheRedChamber]

@AwkwardlySet

It was something I read quite a while ago. I haven't been able to find exactly the thing I read at the time. A quick Google does show results for papers studying why female faces seem to be rated as more attractive than male (though apparently by both men and women), but I haven't dived into any of them in detail and so won't suggest one here. Rather than spend a long time on it, I'll just say that personally, I tend to find most women more attractive than not.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

That could be a whole different thread.

Faces generally have a forehead, two eyes, a nose, a mouth, cheeks, a chin and a certain amount of hair.

Why do we see them so differently?

I saw a picture of one the other day and completely fell into the eyes. Just couldn't stop staring at the picture. Most others on the same page I couldn't click away from fast enough.

 

[Writer61]

That could be a whole different thread.

Faces generally have a forehead, two eyes, a nose, a mouth, cheeks, a chin and a certain amount of hair.

Why do we see them so differently?

I saw a picture of one the other day and completely fell into the eyes. Just couldn't stop staring at the picture. Most others on the same page I couldn't click away from fast enough.

Because they differ in details: the shape of eyebrows, the nose, the lips, the eyes, the chin, how defined the cheekbones are, etc., etc.

 

[TheExperimentalist]

Balancing flaws, complex feelings, psychology takes effort.

There's a reason I have over three dozen WIPs and only six complete stories published so far...

 

[TheExperimentalist]

I adore these kinds of details as well!

I love looking at people. Older, younger, male, female, nb, I love observing details of faces and bodies. If you look long enough, many of the things we consider flaws can become lovely, especially when coupled with interesting and positive personalities

100%

 

[Bazzle]

Characters need to be interesting?

Exaggerated?

Relatable but intriguing?

 

[sirhugs]

I've tried to hint at it before in a couple of other threads.

In life, relationships are generally two people with similar lifestyles and interests. How or where the two meet can vary wildly, but they rarely stray outside that couple. No matter who they are, or how they meet, they never involve family, almost never multiple people (without breaking up) or any number of things we see here. We'll leave out any discussion of fantasy characters or creatures for obvious reasons.

They people involved are never the perfect human specimens portrayed here. I've been around some really 'beautiful' people and they can be extremely difficult and downright unpleasant.

But why can't some of us reflect that in our writings? Why do we go to extremes in character descriptions (eg., impossibly perfect appearance and stamina) and situations that are not possible, likely illegal in most places and even if not, literally no one would engage in?

Yes, there are clubs, 'dungeons', groups, lifestyle resorts and what not, but what real percentage of humans participate? Stories here paint the picture that these things are the norm and almost all adults partake. In fact, the numbers are likely quite small. I get the fantasy and fiction/dream angle.

And yes, I know some strive to write stories more based on real life, even their own.



I'm not sure where I'm going here because my mind isn't well any more. It drifts uncontrollably. I may add more later.

iI'm not comfortable with anything today but support you in your journey.
take care.

 

[ColtonWrites]

I certainly write unusual/uncommon scenarios (a BDSM matchmaking service, a prisoner of war on an alien spacecraft, a club owner picking narrator out of a crowd with some Love At First Sight thrown in).

But the people are far from perfect. For one, there's no single archetype for man, woman, neuter, or other, than everyone will find attractive. So there's no such thing as a "perfect" main character.

The only point I have that's deliberately "fake" is that when the main character is transgender or otherwise has non-standard genitals, it's never a problem for the love interest. But that's the nature of those fantasies. The reason my life has gone so long with so few partners is because it's literally very dangerous for me to seek out cis men for sex without careful setup. (And yes I know that's true for a lot of people but Im in that group.) Some men react especially badly when they've been "tricked" into sex with a trans person.

And even when people know, even when they are "okay" with it, they aren't always nice about it. Or they assume that because I like vaginal sex, I must want to be treated as/referred to as a woman during sex. And that kills the moment SO FAST; in fact, it makes me not want to be friends.

So I would never agree, for example, to be alone with a potential partner in their house, before we've discussed things and I'm certain I'll be both safe and comfortable around that person. I have stories where the reveal happens during the sex and I would never, NEVER risk that.

I write the love interests to be the kind of person I'd want to have sex with.

ETA: and I just realized that the contemporary stories do have a healthy dose of the Main Character being worried what Love Interest will think of their bodies. It doesn't happen in the sci-fi ones because I'm treating transphobia as a solved problem there.