Intellectualism on the left

[OldJourno]

Who said this:

“Is it right that the middle class continues to disappear while there has been a massive transfer of wealth from working families to the top one-tenth of 1 percent? Trillions of dollars in the last 30 years have flowed from the middle class to the top one-tenth of 1 percent. And the American people say, ‘No, that’s not right.’”

OK, we all know Sen. Bernie Sanders said it, and we also know a good number of bovine liberals nodded along, as if what this lefty "intellectual" said was true.
How could it be true?
Any explanations?

 

[adrina]

This definitely is not an example of intellectualism on the right.

 

[DMBFFF]

I don't believe what Bernie Sanders said there is true—at least not to that extreme.

That said, there is a great disparity of wealth, it might be getting worse, and I see a lot of the political right in the lower economic rungs not realizing how they are being taken advantage of, and while we might argue about Sanders, or AOC, or whomever, it might profit them as much, if not more, to be as critical about Trump et al.

 

[Comshaw]

Who said this:

“Is it right that the middle class continues to disappear while there has been a massive transfer of wealth from working families to the top one-tenth of 1 percent? Trillions of dollars in the last 30 years have flowed from the middle class to the top one-tenth of 1 percent. And the American people say, ‘No, that’s not right.’”

OK, we all know Sen. Bernie Sanders said it, and we also know a good number of bovine liberals nodded along, as if what this lefty "intellectual" said was true.
How could it be true?
Any explanations?

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/us-wealth-inequality-chart.jpg

Comshaw

 

[BotanyBoy]

I still have yet to hear why wealth inequity is a problem.....

Why is economic prosperity a bad thing??

 

[DMBFFF]

I still have yet to hear why wealth inequity is a problem.....

It's not theoretically, and probably not in a lot in practice, but I have the sneaky suspicion that if more people thought more for themselves, the disparities would drop.



I don't entirely agree with it, but it's worth listening to:

George Carlin : The Rich People Who Own America
3:12



(R.I.P. George Carlin )

 

[BotanyBoy]

It's not theoretically, and probably not in a lot in practice,

Not at all in practice.....someone else being rich doesn't at all in any way oppress me or anyone else.

but I have the sneaky suspicion that if more people thought more for themselves, the disparities would drop.

Of course, but that would require them to look at their lives and say "Tha fuck am I doing wrong here? How do I get a piece of that??" and that's something most folks aren't capable of doing.

 

[OldJourno]

Not at all in practice.....someone else being rich doesn't at all in any way oppress me or anyone else.

.

Yeah, but if Bernie's in charge I'll bet the preferred elite will be oppressing us peons big time in just a few short years.

 

[DMBFFF]

Not at all in practice.....someone else being rich doesn't at all in any way oppress me or anyone else.

Arguably in a true free market, great wealth is likely proof of great benefit to humanity.



somewhat related:
http://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?p=89834254

 

[Boxlicker101]

https://2oqz471sa19h3vbwa53m33yj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/us-wealth-inequality-chart.jpg

Comshaw

These figures are three years old, which means they don't mean much. I wonder what they would be after two plus years with The Donald as POTUS. I know unemployment is much lower and participation is at a higher rate.

 

[adrina]

It's not the prosperity at the top that's the problem. Unless it comes at the expense of the prosperity of everyone else.

See wage stagnation of the middle and lower classes and wage explosion of the upper class. The C suite hasn't taken any hits - unlike the lower and middle classes.

This hasn't been going on since the 90s. You'll have to look back to the late 60s and early 70s for the beginning of this trend.

 

[Comshaw]

These figures are three years old, which Eans they don't mean much. I wonder what they would be after two plus years with The Donald as POTUS. I know unemployment is much lower and participation is at a higher rate.

1) Unemployment and work place participation weren't a part of the Op's rant. The disparity in the growth of wealth was.

2) The chart shows a wealth redistribution over 15 years flowing from those on the bottom to those on the top. Do you really believe that the Donald could make a drastic change in that figure in only 2+ years? If so let's see some proof other wise it's a hollow sounding motorboat exercise on your part:

but but but but but but but........


Comshaw

 

[Comshaw]

It's not the prosperity at the top that's the problem. Unless it comes at the expense of the prosperity of everyone else.

See wage stagnation of the middle and lower classes and wage explosion of the upper class. The C suite hasn't taken any hits - unlike the lower and middle classes.

This hasn't been going on since the 90s. You'll have to look back to the late 60s and early 70s for the beginning of this trend.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/4d/4dd6c939e5af3b0f7a05d42521f2f4c6.png

Comshaw

 

[bigsly]

Intellectualism on the left

An oxymoron in the making.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Yeah, but if Bernie's in charge I'll bet the preferred elite will be oppressing us peons big time in just a few short years.

That's the whole point of socialism comrade.
https://d33wubrfki0l68.cloudfront.net/72269b87c8f94f6cb995784716226e85b762ba18/ac791/assets/img/stalin_pointing_thin.png

It's not the prosperity at the top that's the problem. Unless it comes at the expense of the prosperity of everyone else.

I agree.

Question is where is the "at the expense of the prosperity of everyone else" happening?

The ONLY entity I see holding everyone else down to protect the uber rich is the government. Not rich people.

See wage stagnation of the middle and lower classes and wage explosion of the upper class. The C suite hasn't taken any hits - unlike the lower and middle classes.

Buuu shit...they have taken hit's they just have a better ability to absorb them.

That's doesn't mean the middle/lower classes have been wronged by the upper middle- rich class.

 

[GiaCat]

There is income inequality, but you are naive if you think Bernie will fix it. He *IS* one of the Wealthy. Do you think he will give up one dime of it? He is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[adrina]

Alt facts.

Inane and not fact based skepticism.

Rationalizing.


The only think left to do is blame the poor folks for being lazy and we will have achieved the RWCJ status quo.

 

[Que]

Alt facts.

Inane and not fact based skepticism.

Rationalizing.


The only think left to do is blame the poor folks for being lazy and we will have achieved the RWCJ status quo.

Nonsense. The poor are not all lazy. Some are profligate spenders, some are trapped in a self-inflicted cycle of addiction and dependency, some lack opportunities to be given the knowledge and understanding about basic financial matters, and some are unfortunately not endowed with capability to understand such concepts.

The poor among us, all of them, are still quite wealthy by world and historical standards.

Just last night by odd coincidence, I ran into Scott who always went above and beyond what I actually needed at a carwash that I used to take my company vehicle through. I would have been happy to save a couple of bucks a day and go somewhere that had no one hustling tips, but his cheerful hardwork and obsessive detailing won me over. It wasn't at all a requirement that I do anything but rinse it off for my relief, but I could see how much he needed that financial and thankful encouragement. I would, from time to time share the wealth with him when I had had an especially successful week. Sometimes when I was able to do so the tip exceeded the cost of the car wash. He worked really hard including washing my car for me in a self-service Bay when the main equipment was down which happened frequently because the owner of that operation simply refused to perform any basic maintenance. He often was trying to fix things himself in order to keep that operation going and hence his livelihood. Eventually the entire thing was broken including the self-serve Bay which remain that way as far as I could tell for at least a year and a half I haven't been back that way in a while so I don't know if they've ever repaired it since.

I explained all that to give you the context of running into him last night. I didn't even recognize him he was actually walking kitty-corner across the street and was somewhat in my way so I was just looking at him as a pedestrian to not run over. I pulled into an area and he walked up and reminded me who he was. I'm not great at facial recognition and he'd grown a beard since and his hair was cropped short so I didn't really recognize him until he spoke and reminded me about the car wash in which case the entire collection of transistor radios has came back to me. One of my transistor radios is something that he had actually found and was using to play some music in the background it when I explain that I collect similar once he had gifted it to me.

"Hey, Que. Listen. I'm going to make a dick request of you. Do you think you could give me $3? You probably realized I am an alcoholic (I had) and I am trying to go buy a beer at that Circle K before last call."

I gave it to him and we talked, briefly. I see that sort of thing every single day. I give a little here and there, aware that I am enabling, but also mindful.that I cannot fix their problems or set them on a better path with anything more than a few encouraging words.

This morning, after sign-up I was working with a diabetic. As an African-anerican, he was already at risk for diabetes with our western diet and like most of us, me included, did not give the care he should have to the food he consumed until after he ended up in the hospital on a long over the road trip as a moving van owner operator because he had passed out. He now watches his diet and somehow in the course of our conversation he mentioned that as a small child he used to draw cartoons for his mother encouraging his mother not to smoke. With captions such as smoking kills. I gave him some praise and encouragement for his attention to diet tand exercise that he does do and chided him for continuing to smoke as that can definitely be a risk factor for circulatory issues especially for somebody with diabetes. I told him that his assignment was to go and draw himself a cartoon and put it on his refrigerator.

With him you got a combination of genetic traits that are certainly not his doing but something that he should be aware of and be extra careful about and life choices significantly, the smoking of course was an entirely voluntary choice. Never mind the financial impact that those $7 a pack cigarettes have on your life. Diabetics have a five to seven-year lower life expectancy and that's spread over a pretty wide range of outcomes depending on how well they take care of themselves throughout the course of the disease. That disease I've watched waste away a lot of people because it one time I worked with a lot of dialysis patients. A lot of them also have diabetes and that's why they are in renal failure because it's some point the two diseases collided. Spending four hours of your day 3 days a week getting dialysis not to mention getting to and from the dialysis clinic and the fact that you are completely wiped out for the rest of the day after getting dialysis and only feel marginally better the next day by the time they reach dialysis their earning potential is almost nil. They're usually Hanging On by a thread and are on public assistance.

You big-government leftists do not have a monopoly on concern for our fellow citizens. The difference is you think that some kind of government program is going to suddenly magically fix people's lives with real problems where we look at it as the fact that no matter what your station in life there's always more that you personally can do to improve it then the most well-funded government agency could ever do on your behalf.

Social Security which was designed to assist the elderly in the last two or three years of their lives from living in abject poverty has become a huge entitlement / Ponzi scheme that no one wants to directly address. In the future there is going to be more and more poverty among our elderly because we have falsely told them that if they and their employer each contribute 7.65% of their earnings that they will be set for life when they decide to retire at 55 or 65 years of age. That Never Was realistic especially with our advances in medicine and the increased life expectancy that Americans now enjoy. Social Security is already bankrupt. We're spending more money than we are taking in and Baby Boomers have not finished retiring. The expectation that government is going to take care of you probably causes more poverty than it solves.

 

[Klinkster]

Is the title of this thread an oxymoron?

 

[adrina]

What an ass around the elbow path.

 

[Que]

It is entirely possible that the intellectualism on the left is as moronic as it is because of lack of oxygen as any other possible explanation. Do yes, hypoxia-moronicus.

 

[bellisarius]

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/images/content_image/data/4d/4dd6c939e5af3b0f7a05d42521f2f4c6.png

Comshaw

Now there's an interesting graph. And it more or less reflects exactly what I'd expect to see. Before I get into that I want to point out the heading of the graph, and in particular the words "Adjusted for Inflation."

Starting with the bottom quintile. Those are the unskilled, uneducated, along with entry level people. The graph indicates exactly what you'd expect, they haven't moved ahead but neither have they lost ground. The graph perfectly reflects the reality of the bottom quintile.

The next quintile up are the semi-skilled, those that have made poor career choices, and more than a few retiree's on fixed incomes. re. the retiree's, they are doing much better than that graph may reflect depending on how they sheltered their retirement 'income.' After the graph reflects taxable income, right? Also included in this group are a great many that through job experience have moved up from the bottom quintile.

Jumping to the top quintile. What are they doing right? The first thing that stands out is how they are the ones most severely affected by economic swings. That indicates that you are looking at the risk takers. As the old saying goes, "No balls, no blue chips." They are being rewarded or punished in proportion to the risks they take.

Following along with the 'risk' meme, notice how each succeeding quintile moving downward is less impacted by the economic conditions? So one graph has managed to capture the risk vs reward story that has always been part of the American Dream.

That graph isn't an indictment as much as it's a lesson for anyone that wants to learn from it.

 

[Que]

What an ass around the elbow path.

I just wanted to compliment you on sounding less idiotic these days now that you've adopted the Phtodeau / Sergeant Spidey tactic of substituting snark for substantive discussion on issues.

You always looked like an ill-informed, shrill, partisan hack repeating talking points you did not understand when you used to attempt to engage before leaving in a huff when your ideas were challenged.

Snark is much better suited for your limited understanding of the issues. You can fire away endlessly, without ever being embarrassed by being way out of your depth.

 

[adrina]

I just wanted to compliment you on sounding less idiotic these days now that you've adopted the Phtodeau / Sergeant Spidey tactic of substituting snark for substantive discussion on issues.

You always looked like an ill-informed, shrill, partisan hack repeating talking points you did not understand when you used to attempt to engage before leaving in a huff when your ideas were challenged.

Snark is much better suited for your limited understanding of the issues. You can fire away endlessly, without ever being embarrassed by being way out of your depth.

Perhaps that might actually bear some kind of consideration if it didn't come from someone I've corrected regarding facts, statistics and basic recognition so many times I've lost count.

Your pretentious pseudo intellectualism sounds better to your mirror than it ever will out in public.

Nice try. Better luck next time.

 

[Klinkster]

Like you ever put forth a fact.....

Perhaps that might actually bear some kind of consideration if it didn't come from someone I've corrected regarding facts, statistics and basic recognition so many times I've lost count.

Your pretentious pseudo intellectualism sounds better to your mirror than it ever will out in public.

Nice try. Better luck next time.