Interracial Category

[EmilyMiller]

Well, no, I think lesbian would still trump that if all "action" characters were female.

One has to ask why?

Emily

 

[KeithD]

One has to ask why?

Emily

Because the Web site is gay tolerant, not gay celebrating. The policy is softer on lesbian than gay male, though (I suppose because there are guy readers who think they can "cure" a woman where they wouldn't try with a guy.)

 

[EmilyMiller]

Because the Web site is gay tolerant, not gay celebrating. The policy is softer on lesbian than gay male, though (I suppose because there are guy readers who think they can "cure" a woman where they wouldn't try with a guy.)

OK. This stuff has been something of a closed book to me. So lesbian is like incest-lite, deviant but maybe not meriting incarceration for the first offense?

Emily

 

[pink_silk_glove]

The policy is softer on lesbian than gay male, though (I suppose because there are guy readers who think they can "cure" a woman where they wouldn't try with a guy.)

There's a definite double standard. Girl-on-girl is considered hot but introduce a second penis to the orgy and they jump for the exits like there's a fire alarm.

I've tried to get myself a mfm play in chat and it's nearly impossible. You ask guy A "would you be interested in a scene with me and another guy?" He says "As long as I don't have to touch the other guy, I'm in!" Then you ask guy B "Wanna spitroast me with another guy?" He says "Wow that sounds hot!" Then you set up a new chat tab and invite them both in. Never fails. One of them says "What's HE doing here?" and vanishes. I've had that exact quote "What's he doing here?" more than once. I'm like "I TOLD you ... it's me you and ANOTHER DUDE! What did you not understand? You don't have to even look at him. I just want two dicks in me." There are so many guys out there that are absolutely terrified of touching another guy or seeing another naked guy.

 

[KeithD]

OK. This stuff has been something of a closed book to me. So lesbian is like incest-lite, deviant but maybe not meriting incarceration for the first offense?

Emily

What's relevant here is that it's a trump category. Not as trumpy as Gay Male, but if all of your "active" characters are lesbian, that's likely going in that category as a trump of anywhere else. Take it to bi (at least one action character male) and it may appear in other categories.

 

[EmilyMiller]

What's irrelevant here is that it's a trump category. Not as trumpy as Gay Male, but if all of your "active" characters are lesbian, that's likely going in that category as a trump of anywhere else. Take it to bi (at least one action character male) and it may appear in other categories.

Got it. Did not know that.

Emily

 

[MillieDynamite]

Well, I've never heard it directed at a man.

Is that a disparaging term for lesbians only? I mean, I also like munching carpet but I am far from being a lesbian

 

[Bramblethorn]

What's relevant here is that it's a trump category. Not as trumpy as Gay Male, but if all of your "active" characters are lesbian, that's likely going in that category as a trump of anywhere else. Take it to bi (at least one action character male) and it may appear in other categories.

I think Celeb usually trumps both Lesbian and Gay Male? There are almost 2000 stories tagged "lesbian" in Celeb/Fanfic (from a quick glance, many female-only) vs. only 14 in Lesbian tagged with "celeb", "celebrity", "fanfic" or "fanfiction".

For the male side, 190 stories in Celeb/Fanfic tagged with "gay male" or "gay" or "homosexual", vs. 38 in Gay Male with "celeb", "celebrity", "fanfic" or "fanfiction". Not as big a disparity, but still looks like they're mostly going in Celeb/Fanfic unless there's some major tag I've missed.

Celeb used to have some boilerplate "under Hustler v. Falwell, this is legal parody stuff, don't sue us" text that showed prominently when reading the category. I'm not seeing it now but that may have been a reason for prioritising that aspect.

 

[lc69hunter]

I submitted a 750 worder recently to Interracial. It was about a threesome between a black girl, a white girl, and an Asian girl.

So interracial, right? Apparently not. Laurel moved it to Lesbian. And you know what, I think she’s right.

I think if I submitted a story featuring a white guy and a black girl to Interracial, it would probably be moved to Romance or Erotic Couplings.

Is it time we renamed Interracial to what it really is, BBC Central?

Emily

As some of our resident writers have discovered. there is a very large niche audience for what I call the IR porn trope, ie little wife wife loses her shit and her mind over big black cock. As long as those stories rate high and generate followers, that is 90% of what you will see there. That is not to say there aren't some damned good writers in that genre. They just will not get the respect that the porn writers will.

 

[Vitriolhack]

One has to ask why?

Emily

Very good question!

I think it comes down to social norms.

White men sucking a black man’s dick?

Inter racial or gay?

Both, but I would tend to agree that Gay trumps Inter racial.

But, as a carpet muncher who also enjoy a good hot dog, maybe it’s just me?

 

[EmilyMiller]

Very good question!

I think it comes down to social norms.

White men sucking a black man’s dick?

Inter racial or gay?

Both, but I would tend to agree that Gay trumps Inter racial.

But, as a carpet muncher who also enjoy a good hot dog, maybe it’s just me?

Being bi is weird, it’s like you don’t fit into anyone’s pigeonhole. But I think it seems to be more acceptable for women. So long as they are still girly with it.

Emily (kinda girly)

 

[KeithD]

I think Celeb usually trumps both Lesbian and Gay Male? There are almost 2000 stories tagged "lesbian" in Celeb/Fanfic (from a quick glance, many female-only) vs. only 14 in Lesbian tagged with "celeb", "celebrity", "fanfic" or "fanfiction".

The only Celeb stories I've written have been Gay Male. They all have been categorized in Gay Male. Other than that, I don't keep track of Celeb (or much about lesbian).

 

[AchtungNight]

Heh, I didn’t know this site did that to GM stories.

 

[Cagivagurl]

Fun, healthy sex that just happens to be multi-chromatic does not count for the "interracial" kink. The kink is about "interracial that the audience thinks of as excitingly taboo." That mostly means Black dudes + White women, b/c that's the coupling that actually threatens people and gets them in their feelings (and/or elicits violence) in real life. (More recently it has also started to exploit colorism & incorporate "Dark-skinned dudes + Light-skinned women" but that's marginal.) To a lesser extent, South Asian dudes / Asian dudes / Native dudes can work, too, but it's basically always about indulging and/or dipping one's toe into the taboo kink.

That is the most disgustingly racist shit right there....
While you continue to flaunt racism as erotica. You perpetuate the myth.
Why is a black woman, or man having sex with a Caucasian taboo?
Only if you consider the black person of lesser value.
Otherwise, it's just two people having sex...

Cagivagurl

 

[SimonDoom]

Here's a link to an article in Psychology Today which summarizes the results of interviews with 25 black men who played the "bull" role in cuckolding relationships with white couples. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ckolding-from-the-perspective-of-men-of-color.

The results are interesting.

I personally find interracial porn and erotica of the "big black man-small white woman" type often strange and off-putting, because I don't personally think of it as an acceptable taboo, but, as I do with all other types of erotic kinks, I don't believe one can accurately make any generalizations about people who participate in interracial porn, or write interracial stories, or read interracial stories, or watch interracial porn. I'm quite confident that there are many people who participate in, make, or consume this type of erotica who are not racist. A lot of people like it, probably, precisely because it is transgressive to like it--not necessarily because they think it's wrong for black and white people to have sex, but because the taboo itself is wrong, and indulging in the kink, playing to it, is naughty. The whole thing is weird--and that's why some people like it. It's the same in this way as adult incest, non-con, degradation, and BDSM. One can enjoy the entertainment and the role play without actually desiring the thing that is being role-played or written about.

 

[joy_of_cooking]

From @SimonDoom 's link:

One made the astute and pointed observation that “I’m objectified and fetishized every time I walk out the door. I’d rather be the hammer than the nail.”

Wow, there's a lot there.

 

[momloverson]

I submitted a 750 worder recently to Interracial. It was about a threesome between a black girl, a white girl, and an Asian girl.

So interracial, right? Apparently not. Laurel moved it to Lesbian. And you know what, I think she’s right.

I think if I submitted a story featuring a white guy and a black girl to Interracial, it would probably be moved to Romance or Erotic Couplings.

Is it time we renamed Interracial to what it really is, BBC Central?

Emily

hahaha BBC central...thats partly true and rightly so

 

[momloverson]

Here's a link to an article in Psychology Today which summarizes the results of interviews with 25 black men who played the "bull" role in cuckolding relationships with white couples. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ckolding-from-the-perspective-of-men-of-color.

The results are interesting.

I personally find interracial porn and erotica of the "big black man-small white woman" type often strange and off-putting, because I don't personally think of it as an acceptable taboo, but, as I do with all other types of erotic kinks, I don't believe one can accurately make any generalizations about people who participate in interracial porn, or write interracial stories, or read interracial stories, or watch interracial porn. I'm quite confident that there are many people who participate in, make, or consume this type of erotica who are not racist. A lot of people like it, probably, precisely because it is transgressive to like it--not necessarily because they think it's wrong for black and white people to have sex, but because the taboo itself is wrong, and indulging in the kink, playing to it, is naughty. The whole thing is weird--and that's why some people like it. It's the same in this way as adult incest, non-con, degradation, and BDSM. One can enjoy the entertainment and the role play without actually desiring the thing that is being role-played or written about.

the article is a good read, thanks for sharing buddy

 

[Bramblethorn]

That is the most disgustingly racist shit right there....
While you continue to flaunt racism as erotica. You perpetuate the myth.
Why is a black woman, or man having sex with a Caucasian taboo?
Only if you consider the black person of lesser value.
Otherwise, it's just two people having sex...

Cagivagurl

He's describing an attitude, not endorsing it.

 

[vagrantx]

Why is a black woman, or man having sex with a Caucasian taboo?

It's not, but being specifically turned on by it is.

I'm asian. Me sleeping with a white gal isn't taboo, but someone fetishising my skin color is.

 

[TarnishedPenny]

The most reliable way to know that racism is dead is that "interracial" porn will cease to be a thing.

OK, not arguing with Cyrano, just taking this as a starting point.

Before we go any further, I abhor racism and 'interracial' has about zero interest to me (and we're all the same race anyway).

That said, looking at the quote, if racism is the key factor in interracial porn, what are those for some other 'socially-dodgy' Lit categories such as:

• Incest, which IIRC is the biggest or second-biggest category on the site
• Non-Con. (And just to make it even more complicated, the kinseys say that approximately two-thirds of women surveyed admit to either having or of having had fantasies of being dominated, which is of course notnotnot the same as wanting to be raped or beaten IRL.)
• Mind Control, which seems to be mainly about causing others to participate in (often sordid) sexual acts against their wills

Those are just starters and I'm sure anybody could add to the list.

There are a small raft of themes here which I find either uninteresting, unappealing or downright repulsive. No doubt some of my yarns have been found offensive by some, so it's hard to point fingers, but how does one separate sheep from goats, say this is okay but that is inappropriate?

 

[EmilyMiller]

OK, not arguing with Cyrano, just taking this as a starting point.

Before we go any further, I abhor racism and 'interracial' has about zero interest to me (and we're all the same race anyway).

That said, looking at the quote, if racism is the key factor in interracial porn, what are those for some other 'socially-dodgy' Lit categories such as:

• Incest, which IIRC is the biggest or second-biggest category on the site
• Non-Con. (And just to make it even more complicated, the kinseys say that approximately two-thirds of women surveyed admit to either having or of having had fantasies of being dominated, which is of course notnotnot the same as wanting to be raped or beaten IRL.)
• Mind Control, which seems to be mainly about causing others to participate in (often sordid) sexual acts against their wills

Those are just starters and I'm sure anybody could add to the list.

There are a small raft of themes here which I find either uninteresting, unappealing or downright repulsive. No doubt some of my yarns have been found offensive by some, so it's hard to point fingers, but how does one separate sheep from goats, say this is okay but that is inappropriate?

Agree with all of that. In particular the being dominated (consensually) <> wanting to be raped comment.

Emily

 

[djrip]

I hear that, but it is entirely possible to write a story where the characters' difference in ethnicity simply factors in their attraction for one another and that would make it inherently an interracial kink. And it does not necessarily have to fetishize race neither, as attraction to a skin color is really no different than attraction to eye color or breast size or muscle tone or hairstyle or anything else. People are attracted to unique traits and if a handsome Arab man enters the white neighborhood, it will turn some heads just because he stands out as the special one. He's the exotic flavor that they want to try. It's no different than the one girl in school that all the boys crush on because she's the only one covered in freckles. She stands out.

This right here is what the appeal is for me. I mean I haven't written IR yet and don't read it much, but the appeal that IR couplings could have, in or out of the IR category, for me, is the aesthetic quality of various ethnicities' features and colorings. Another potential take is stories exploring the culture clash of an interracial couple. Like 90 day fiance but with fucking.

 

[CyranoJ]

That said, looking at the quote, if racism is the key factor in interracial porn, what are those for some other 'socially-dodgy' Lit categories such as:

• Incest . . .
• Non-Con . . .
• Mind Control . . .

Personally I'd say those latter three are all varieties of essentially the same thing, where the thrill lies in transgressing boundaries that one is well aware should not be transgressed in the real world. (Setting to the side that there are Incest devotees on Lit who have convinced themselves to a potentially alarming degree that incest is or should be "normal," what makes it reliably a traumatic thing IRL is issues of power dynamics and consent.) IR is different in that the taboo being transgressed has nothing necessarily to do with consent and is more a fetishism of social hierarchy, sometimes as a guilty pleasure (if we want to get meta with it) even for people who otherwise know that it's the fetishism itself that should really be the taboo and not the fact of people with different skin colors getting it on.

My take is that to "separate sheep from goats" is largely pointless. We can identify what doesn't work for us, but the reason "kink shaming" has a reputation as a bad thing in genuinely sex-positive circles is that trying to decide what should work for others is ultimately futile. We can have an eyes-open attitude about the actual realities these kinks spring from, we can try to educate people on the importance of keeping reality and fantasy separate (generally a good idea but especially so when it comes to the darker kinds of kink), and where kinks spring from traumatic realities we can work to make reality itself less traumatic. But trying to shame kinks as being "inappropriate" generally has the opposite of its intended effect.

 

[SimonDoom]

IR is different in that the taboo being transgressed has nothing necessarily to do with consent and is more a fetishism of social hierarchy, sometimes as a guilty pleasure (if we want to get meta with it) even for people who otherwise know that it's the fetishism itself that should really be the taboo and not the fact of people with different skin colors getting it on.

I don't have any data to back this up, but I wonder if this is now a significant part of the appeal of interracial erotica/porn. It's not that the people who like it are racist, but they know that racism itself is taboo now, and it's fun to indulge in taboos. It's human nature to want to be naughty. It's a big part of what drives erotic fantasy.