Is Obama done?

[Boxlicker101]

Well, what I'm suggesting is that skill of yours might not be so useful in other areas. Like, you're over-trained, or something. Maybe.

It enhances my pleasure and that of the woman, but has nothing to do with this thread.

 

[Lee Chambers]

In the end your vote for one candidate or the other amounts to nothing more than telling people who are smarter than you "Hey, I think this person would be a good choice but you get the final call on it."

Everyone bitched about Bush winning in 2000, saying he stole the vote. He didn't. He won fair and square, the LEGAL way. Because, remember, we have an electoral college made up of delegates who vote on our behalf. By tradition, they're supposed to vote how the people want to vote...but if they that our decisions aren't the best ones for the country they're free to choose who THEY think is best, and they're vote counts more than yours because, as I said, they're smarter.

If you want to change something in this country now, you have to use the only box that matters.

http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/rifle/images/sf50-bmg.jpg

So since I'm just an ignorant peon, as has been determined by the rules of both the Republican and Democratic parties (as well as all smaller factions inbetween) can someone clarify as to which side of the fence the stance of "Violent Armed Rebellion" is on? I just want to be accurate when I tell people if I'm a conservative or liberal or one of those other useless titles.

 

[Stella_Omega]

This week, Barack Obama gave one of the most honest and inspiring speeches on race in American history after weathering days of the media's relentless, divisive, and racially charged attacks. But have you wondered where these attacks came from and why they dominated the news?

Reporters like NBC's Tim Russert focused on the "Reverend Wright controversy" only after FOX and other right-wing media did. It happens over and over: FOX airs a right-wing smear and the mass media repeat it. Film director Robert Greenwald just released a short video called FOX Attacks Obama: Part 2 which shows how it happens.

We are launching a petition demanding the big networks stop parroting FOX and distracting Americans from real issues. We'll hand-deliver your signatures to major media outlets next week. Watch the video, and sign the petition, here:

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3495&id=12363-8395162-yLoqKP&t=454

The petition, which we're launching with Greenwald's Brave New Films, says: "FOX is a Republican mouthpiece, not a legitimate news organization. Real news organizations must reject FOX's smears of Barack Obama, not parrot them and distract Americans from the pressing issues of the day." The more signatures we deliver, the bigger the impact—so please tell your friends.


Media watchdog group Media Matters has chronicled how FOX spent months trying to smear Obama by associating him with Reverend Wright's words.1 Greenwald's new video shows how the attacks successfully migrated to the mass media—Tim Russert repeated Sean Hannity's smears virtually word-for-word!

Meanwhile, the big networks all but ignored Pastor John Hagee, whose endorsement John McCain was "honored" and "proud" to receive. Hagee says Katrina was God's punishment for homosexuality, Jews are to blame for anti-Semitism, and Catholicism is the "Whore of Babylon" and "a cult."2

It gets worse. At the same time they relentlessly reported on Obama's pastor, most network journalists also ignored Rick Parsley, a televangelist who McCain called his "spiritual guide" when accepting his endorsement last month. Parsley has said:
I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed...3

Ignoring McCain's spiritual advisers while going after Obama's is what we expect from FOX, which is more a Republican mouthpiece than a real news organization. But when real news outlets follow FOX's lead, we have to hold them accountable. Otherwise, FOX will continue to elevate smear after smear against Democrats into the mass media in 2008. Click here to see the new video and sign the petition.

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3495

Thanks for all you do.

–Adam G., Noah, Justin, Karin, and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Friday, March 21st, 2008

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

Oh for goodness sakes: For decades we had a mainstream media - including three networks and CNN - that in their presentation of the news were unambiguously tilted in favor of the liberal, Democratic side of the U.S. political spectrum. In particular, by selecting which stories to cover, and which not to cover. The only ones who did and do deny this are those whose own preferences are so firmly in the same direction that they perceive themselves and others who share their views to be "neutral."

Now we have a network that is just as unambiguously slanted to the right, and those on the left just can't stand it. It's actually rather funny to watch the bile and vitriol spew forth from them about Fox.

It's real simple to detect either liberal or conservative bias in any institution, organization or individual: If a conservative thinks something has liberal bias, then by definition it does. If a liberal thinks something has conservative bias, then by definition it does. Neither side, however, is qualified or has standing to pronounce whether something on its side of the spectrum is biased.

Media Matters is a left wing organization funded primarily (if not exclusively) by George Soros. The notion that they are some kind of "neutral," "disinterested" arbiter is just as laughable as the notion that the right-leaning Media Research Center is "neutral."

 

[Boxlicker101]

This week, Barack Obama gave one of the most honest and inspiring speeches on race in American history after weathering days of the media's relentless, divisive, and racially charged attacks. But have you wondered where these attacks came from and why they dominated the news?

Reporters like NBC's Tim Russert focused on the "Reverend Wright controversy" only after FOX and other right-wing media did. It happens over and over: FOX airs a right-wing smear and the mass media repeat it. Film director Robert Greenwald just released a short video called FOX Attacks Obama: Part 2 which shows how it happens.

We are launching a petition demanding the big networks stop parroting FOX and distracting Americans from real issues. We'll hand-deliver your signatures to major media outlets next week. Watch the video, and sign the petition, here:

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3495&id=12363-8395162-yLoqKP&t=454

The petition, which we're launching with Greenwald's Brave New Films, says: "FOX is a Republican mouthpiece, not a legitimate news organization. Real news organizations must reject FOX's smears of Barack Obama, not parrot them and distract Americans from the pressing issues of the day." The more signatures we deliver, the bigger the impact—so please tell your friends.


Media watchdog group Media Matters has chronicled how FOX spent months trying to smear Obama by associating him with Reverend Wright's words.1 Greenwald's new video shows how the attacks successfully migrated to the mass media—Tim Russert repeated Sean Hannity's smears virtually word-for-word!

Meanwhile, the big networks all but ignored Pastor John Hagee, whose endorsement John McCain was "honored" and "proud" to receive. Hagee says Katrina was God's punishment for homosexuality, Jews are to blame for anti-Semitism, and Catholicism is the "Whore of Babylon" and "a cult."2

It gets worse. At the same time they relentlessly reported on Obama's pastor, most network journalists also ignored Rick Parsley, a televangelist who McCain called his "spiritual guide" when accepting his endorsement last month. Parsley has said:
I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed...3

Ignoring McCain's spiritual advisers while going after Obama's is what we expect from FOX, which is more a Republican mouthpiece than a real news organization. But when real news outlets follow FOX's lead, we have to hold them accountable. Otherwise, FOX will continue to elevate smear after smear against Democrats into the mass media in 2008. Click here to see the new video and sign the petition.

http://www.moveon.org/r?r=3495

Thanks for all you do.

–Adam G., Noah, Justin, Karin, and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Friday, March 21st, 2008

Do you actually mean to say that Fox News made up those videotapes that were shown, and to which Obama reacted? As for Hagee, that is still his unproven statement about an unnamed individual alleged to be working with McCain. I would be interested in seeing what proof can be found. Why would you believe this man, a known bigot and liar?

As for Parsley, I doubt that he is McCain's "Spirtual advisor" but, even if he is, the statement beingg attributed to him is pretty tame, compared to what Write was filmed saying. I mean, if this is the best you can manage, why bother?

You know, don't you, that moveon is one of the most notorious smear merchants on the web?

 

[Kev H]

In the end your vote for one candidate or the other amounts to nothing more than telling people who are smarter than you "Hey, I think this person would be a good choice but you get the final call on it."

Everyone bitched about Bush winning in 2000, saying he stole the vote. He didn't. He won fair and square, the LEGAL way. Because, remember, we have an electoral college made up of delegates who vote on our behalf. By tradition, they're supposed to vote how the people want to vote...but if they that our decisions aren't the best ones for the country they're free to choose who THEY think is best, and they're vote counts more than yours because, as I said, they're smarter.

If you want to change something in this country now, you have to use the only box that matters.

http://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/rifle/images/sf50-bmg.jpg

So since I'm just an ignorant peon, as has been determined by the rules of both the Republican and Democratic parties (as well as all smaller factions inbetween) can someone clarify as to which side of the fence the stance of "Violent Armed Rebellion" is on? I just want to be accurate when I tell people if I'm a conservative or liberal or one of those other useless titles.

NRA?

Stella,

Moveon.org is so rabidly politicized that everything they "report" is instantly suspect by anyone (on any side of the fence) with a modicrum of common sense. The detailing of what happened is more likely to be accurate at this source:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9051.html

He basically shows that the news media has been covering it for a long time and that it wasn't "new news" to them, or anyone who really paid attention (which isn't most of us). So, it may seem like they were following Fox, but in reality, they most likely did not think it much news until they saw the public shitstorm. Then, like most money-hungry businesses, they jumped on it (and that's probably being a bit unfair to them--as they see it as their job to report what people want to see/hear).

 

[Stella_Omega]

Do you actually mean to say that Fox News made up those videotapes that were shown, and to which Obama reacted? As for Hagee, that is still his unproven statement about an unnamed individual alleged to be working with McCain. I would be interested in seeing what proof can be found. Why would you believe this man, a known bigot and liar?

As for Parsley, I doubt that he is McCain's "Spirtual advisor" but, even if he is, the statement beingg attributed to him is pretty tame, compared to what Write was filmed saying. I mean, if this is the best you can manage, why bother?

Katrina was God's punishment for homosexuality, Jews are to blame for anti-Semitism, and Catholicism is the "Whore of Babylon" and "a cult."

You don't think that's so bad.

Okay. I understand you a little bit more, now.

You know, don't you, that moveon is one of the most notorious smear merchants on the web?

Well, I know that moveon endorses opinions that you don't agree with and makes accusations against people who you approve of, perhaps. I guess that makes them smear merchants in your eyes. I have a different list of smear merchants, myself.

Anyway, you ignore the petition if you like. Considering that some people have expressed anger and disillusionment at the media, I thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Lee Chambers]

NRA?

I'm not a card carrying member, but I certainly support the idea of people arming themselves.

I told a co-worker last month that if more people in this country carried guns then psychopaths wouldn't have such an easy time slaughtering people.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I'm not a card carrying member, but I certainly support the idea of people arming themselves.

I told a co-worker last month that if more people in this country carried guns then psychopaths wouldn't have such an easy time slaughtering people.

But wouldn't it would make it easier for the regular people to start slaughtering people?

 

[rgraham666]

I'm not a card carrying member, but I certainly support the idea of people arming themselves.

I told a co-worker last month that if more people in this country carried guns then psychopaths wouldn't have such an easy time slaughtering people.

I always think of the fun I could have with a string of firecrackers if everyone carried a firearm.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I always think of the fun I could have with a string of firecrackers if everyone carried a firearm.

Okayyy... Now I believe all of those things they say about you.

 

[Lee Chambers]

But wouldn't it would make it easier for the regular people to start slaughtering people?

No, because regular people don't slaughter other people. This has been proven in states that have encouraged their LAW-ABIDING citizens to carry weapons.

 

[Lee Chambers]

I always think of the fun I could have with a string of firecrackers if everyone carried a firearm.

Come on, Rob. You know you could never settle for just ONE string of firecrackers.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Katrina was God's punishment for homosexuality, Jews are to blame for anti-Semitism, and Catholicism is the "Whore of Babylon" and "a cult."

You don't think that's so bad.

Okay. I understand you a little bit more, now.

Well, I know that moveon endorses opinions that you don't agree with and makes accusations against people who you approve of, perhaps. I guess that makes them smear merchants in your eyes. I have a different list of smear merchants, myself.

Anyway, you ignore the petition if you like. Considering that some people have expressed anger and disillusionment at the media, I thought I'd throw it out there.

I have no use for ANY televangelists. However, the things you have bolded were said by Jerry Falwell, as I recall.

When I call somebody a "smear merchant" I mean somebody that tells lies about people or groups they don't like, or passes on rumors as the truth. I have no problem with opinions being expressed as long as they are identified as opinions.

I am definitely going to ignore the petition.

 

[Stella_Omega]

I am definitely going to ignore the petition.

But of course.

 

[Kev H]

Katrina was God's punishment for homosexuality, Jews are to blame for anti-Semitism, and Catholicism is the "Whore of Babylon" and "a cult."

Heh, as a tie-in to our other conversation in another thread...I think incidents like this make a very clear case why these kind of religious people of whatever color (oh, you know the word for them) should be banned from political discussions. For another fantastic example, look up "Atlah".

Of course, I am mostly kidding here, as that's completely impractical and un-American, but I can still dream of a time when everyone pushes that kind of person into obsolescence.

BTW, in case you missed my previous edit, read this article to have an alternative explanation of the media coverage (or lack of): http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0308/9051.html

 

[impressive]

Every time I see this thread title, I think: "No, someone just took him out of the oven and basted him. He's still cookin'."

 

[rgraham666]

Come on, Rob. You know you could never settle for just ONE string of firecrackers.

Since, in the scenario you posited, most people only know which end of the gun the bang comes out of one is enough.

Also, if a well armed populace is a safe populace, perhaps you could explain Afghanistan, Darfur and the Congo to me.

Stella? People don't know the half of it.

 

[Lee Chambers]

Since, in the scenario you posited, most people only know which end of the gun the bang comes out of one is enough.

Also, if a well armed populace is a safe populace, perhaps you could explain Afghanistan, Darfur and the Congo to me.

Stella? People don't know the half of it.

To be fair, that's a bit of a wide brush you're painting the gun owners with. Those who go to acquire licenses to carry concealed hand guns have to take a training course that includes a great deal of safety training.

Also, while I advocate the right to bear arms (as many arms as you can carry at that) I also advocate education in firearms. It's important for people to understand the dangers and hazards of owning a firearm, how to keep their loved ones safe with a firearm in the house (including how to keep it out of the hands of your children), and where you are legally allowed to carry your gun, even in a concealed manner.

As for Afghanistan, Darfur and the Congo, the populace of those areas is not well armed. The rebels, militias, tribes, factions, and military forces in those areas are the ones who are well armed. Also, those said groups are not carrying weapons to defend themselves, they're carrying them to wage war.

 

[rgraham666]

On the training etc. I quite agree. And my brush was a little broad.

However, those areas I mentioned the people are well armed. What makes them unsafe is the lack of goodwill that various groups have for one another. More weapons will only make it worse. And it's not something that can be fixed with guns. Except by genocide.

But seriously Canada and Europe have much lower violence rates of all types and are much fussier about who gets guns than the U.S. I really don't believe wide spread firearm ownership will make us any safer.

That's all I've got to say about that.

 

[Kev H]

Nice 'jack, you two (and now me). I believe everyone but Bradyites can agree that training should top the list of requirements or discussion topics.

In the small town I came from, many anecdotal (though often true) stories circulated, like how the guy goofing around with his pistol shot at a salt block (in the pocket that got licked out by cattle) and the ricochet hit him in the belly hard enough to imprint the cloth of his overshirt on the lead without breaking the skin (it would inevitably have killed him had that happened as he was on foot out in the middle of nowhere). That story always accompanies lessons about knowing your target and the physics of what a bullet can do, and those instill a healthy caution. We got constant reminders of how deadly guns can be in the untrained/unwise hands--it was a part of that local culture, and it was impressionable enough that if anyone still wanted a gun, they were very careful of the handling and usage.

And that was the peripheral stuff that happened in addition to the trips to the gun range. I realize it's unrealistic to expect everyone to get that level of training, but no less realistic than the current political extremes on the subject. If they could agree on training-before-licensing for any firearm, I think you'd see a policy ideal emerge, but no one is politically brave enough to "go there" with the currently entrenched camps.

So, [/threadjack] for me.

 

[Lee Chambers]

On the training etc. I quite agree. And my brush was a little broad.

However, those areas I mentioned the people are well armed. What makes them unsafe is the lack of goodwill that various groups have for one another. More weapons will only make it worse. And it's not something that can be fixed with guns. Except by genocide.

But seriously Canada and Europe have much lower violence rates of all types and are much fussier about who gets guns than the U.S. I really don't believe wide spread firearm ownership will make us any safer.

That's all I've got to say about that.

I imagine this is one area we'll simply have to agree to disagree on. And I don't think we should simply be handing out guns to every Tom, Dick and Harry Dick who walks up asking for one. I will add, however, that my belief in gun ownership is not simply about protecting yourself from thugs, robbers, thieves and Jehovah's witnesses but also protecting yourself from your own government. And that may sound paranoid, especially considering the ammo box and my open declaration for open rebellion against the U.S. government, but I'll point to the Patriot Act as proof enough of why people should be allowed to own guns.

And yes, Kev, it was, indeed, a nice jack. I also don't think it's unrealistic at all for someone to get that level of training. Understand how kinematics works concerning guns will give people a better idea of the kind of damage a bullet can do and how things CAN go terribly wrong when you use one recklessly.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

I am Laughing My Ass Off. Obama gave q great speech - written by Bill Clinton's X-Speech Writer. Of course it was good. But did he mean it? Time will tell.

There are too many good things going on. With the "Revelation" that Obama's passport information was viewed by unauthorized persons and Obama's immediate demand for a congressional investigation (obviously it was either a Clinton Dirty Trick or Obama has something to hide), then the State Departmant discovering that both Hillary Clinton and John McCain had also been viewed also, has me chuckling.

Then Obama's claim that Wright was "like a member of the family" for 20 years, but never heard anything like the crap that's been televised over and over ("Not God Bless America. God Damn America!") and specifically didn't hear the particular rant from the pulpet last July. Get serious. The Chicago South Side Baptist and Trinity Baptist Churches have both been hotbeds of this crap since the death of Martin Luther King.

Now John McCain has his own nemisis on the pulpet. Too funny.

The obvious inferrence here is: If you run for president...Avoid Churches at all cost.

ROFL

 

[Belegon]

Confidentiality in an environment like the state department or a financial office is no joke.

I've worked in banking for many years and I have handled accounts for people whose names many of you would recognize and in one case almost all of you would recognize. Those people are not only entitled to their privacy, it is guaranteed as a matter of policy and law, just like mine and yours are.

You don't go into ANY account or personal background unless you have a reason to do so. And it is just as much a firing offense at your local bank as it is at the Federal level. Period.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Confidentiality in an environment like the state department or a financial office is no joke.

I've worked in banking for many years and I have handled accounts for people whose names many of you would recognize and in one case almost all of you would recognize. Those people are not only entitled to their privacy, it is guaranteed as a matter of policy and law, just like mine and yours are.

You don't go into ANY account or personal background unless you have a reason to do so. And it is just as much a firing offense at your local bank as it is at the Federal level. Period.

The think is, Belegon, if the State Department were truely trying to protect their information, why were they using unknown temps? To quote Dr. Phil, "That's just wrong."

Unfortunatly, this is a mess that permiates the entire government. It's like a really old row boat - Full of Leaks.