Is Obama morally responsible for everyone killed or maimed in the Syrian War?

[KingOrfeo]

Not contesting that Obama wasn't covertly a match to the volatile, civil uprising against Assad eventually (as Obama was an instigator of the infamous Arab Spring generally) . . .

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and Obama had nothing to do with it -- it was more a matter of Tunisians demanding a change in government and other Arabs going, "Wait, you can do that?!" If any POTUS bears any blame it's W, for starting the Iraq War that generally destabilized the whole region.

 

[about_average]

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and Obama had nothing to do with it -- it was more a matter of Tunisians demanding a change in government and other Arabs going, "Wait, you can do that?!" If any POTUS bears any blame it's W, for starting the Iraq War that generally destabilized the whole region.

It didn't help that he committed the US leaving and creating a vacuum in Iraq in which ISIS could grow exponentially.

 

[renard_ruse]

Egypt and the Brotherhood was his, he owns it....

The Muslim Brotherhood was a democratic politcal movement that won an election. Its similar to the Justice Party in Turkey. Not comparable to the Islamic extremists who seek to gain power through violence. We should have condemned their overthrow. Just because it has the word "Muslim" in its name, and because it was no friend of Israel, people act like it was the equivalent of ISIS. It was the victim of an unjust coup and repression.

 

[renard_ruse]

It didn't help that he committed the US leaving and creating a vacuum in Iraq in which ISIS could grow exponentially.

We shouldn't have been there in the first place.

I blame Obama for not pulling out of the mideast entirely. I support the Ron Paul / Pat Buchanan position.

 

[renard_ruse]

The Arab Spring started in Tunisia and Obama had nothing to do with it -- it was more a matter of Tunisians demanding a change in government and other Arabs going, "Wait, you can do that?!" If any POTUS bears any blame it's W, for starting the Iraq War that generally destabilized the whole region.

The CIA was behind all the "color revolutions" of the past 15 years. Clinton, Bush, Obama all the same when it comes to foreign policy. All NWO.

Agree with the last sentence though. Even going back to the first Bush.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The Muslim Brotherhood was a democratic politcal movement that won an election. Its similar to the Justice Party in Turkey. Not comparable to the Islamic extremists who seek to gain power through violence. We should have condemned their overthrow. Just because it has the word "Muslim" in its name, and because it was no friend of Israel, people act like it was the equivalent of ISIS. It was the victim of an unjust coup and repression.

You need to study the history of the Brotherhood, maybe beginning with Muhammad Anwar el-Sadat...

 

[about_average]

We shouldn't have been there in the first place.

True, but once we broke...
If your kid goes in a china shop and breaks $1,000's of dollars of merchandise do you just say, Well, you shouldn't have been in there." and leave the shop owner to deal with the mess?

I blame Obama for not pulling out of the mideast entirely. I support the Ron Paul / Pat Buchanan position.

Well, he abided by Bush's agreement with Iraq and look what happened.

 

[KingOrfeo]

The CIA was behind all the "color revolutions" of the past 15 years.

Cite?

 

[phrodeau]

Today's murder in Ankara of the Russian ambassador to Turkey is potentially a powder keg. Let's hope it doesn't go off.

No worries. Russia has gotten used to assassinations by now.

Politkovskaya, Litvinenko, Nemtsov...

 

[Hypoxia]

Agrred, with the caveat that more likely than not, the US was more involved than we will ever admit with the inception of the uprising. Whether we armed them ourselves or simply looked the other way as they help themselves, we were probably complicit.

Which inception? Dubya's gang invading Iraq (which had zero to do with 9/11) to kick-off regional destabilization? Crop failures resultant from the Global Warming drought starting in 1998, the worst in 900 years, that triggered the Syrian Civil War? The post-2011 uprising with factions supported by every power in and out of the region?

IMHO the major lesson that should (but won't) be learnt re: the Muslim world is that some nasty-ass strongman maintaining order by brute force is probably preferable to Western interests than is the factional chaos resulting when that asshole is ousted.

Also, Saudi funding of mosques worldwide spewing Wahibi hate and recruiting jihadis does not help Western interests... except those capitalizing on terror and repression. Your military-industrial complex won't get budget increases without enemies to defend against. Damn, we *need* terrorists! The Pentagon does, anyway.

 

[nerfhearder]

Most leaders have accepted that they are responsible for deaths under their watch whether justified or not. It has nothing to do with who they are as a person, it's what their job is.
Washington, Lincoln, FDR all knew they had blood on their hands but also knew it was necessary. One of the reasons almost every world leader looks like they've aged 10 years for every year in office.

 

[Hypoxia]

Most leaders have accepted that they are responsible for deaths under their watch whether justified or not. It has nothing to do with who they are as a person, it's what their job is.
Washington, Lincoln, FDR all knew they had blood on their hands but also knew it was necessary. One of the reasons almost every world leader looks like they've aged 10 years for every year in office.

I've said before that the current USA system forces a POTUS to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Congress has not declared war since 4 July 1942. Every war since then has been unconstitutional, and not much supported by USA citizenry. Coincidence? Rather than serving the national interest, we instead apply military force to support narrow commercial and/or ideological interests. (Inter)National "rules of warfare" are irrelevant in pursuit of such interests. Fuck order and morality.

Undeclared wars. Corporations as people, money as speech. Religion as an excuse for discrimination. Ubiquitous surveillance. Executive power wielded because of Congressional obstruction. And a general lack of civility, cited by Robt Heinlein as the sign of a doomed society. USA is in a nice pickle.

 

[phrodeau]

I've said before that the current USA system forces a POTUS to commit war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Congress has not declared war since 4 July 1942. Every war since then has been unconstitutional, and not much supported by USA citizenry. Coincidence? Rather than serving the national interest, we instead apply military force to support narrow commercial and/or ideological interests. (Inter)National "rules of warfare" are irrelevant in pursuit of such interests. Fuck order and morality.

Undeclared wars. Corporations as people, money as speech. Religion as an excuse for discrimination. Ubiquitous surveillance. Executive power wielded because of Congressional obstruction. And a general lack of civility, cited by Robt Heinlein as the sign of a doomed society. USA is in a nice pickle.

I'm sure that Donald Trump will change all of that.

 

[islandman]

I'm sure that Donald Trump will change all of that.

Good cgange or bad change?

 

[phrodeau]

Good cgange or bad change?

Morally neutral ones.

He's a deal maker. So he'll strike deals to solve problems. He'll say that criminals can keep their assault weapons, but they can only rob illegal aliens, for example.

 

[Noor]

Iraq definitely predates Obama by at least 1\2 a decade, Toots.

Egypt and the Brotherhood was his, he owns it.

Libya is his and he owns it.

Iraq was won and he decided, fuck that, so he owns it and the aftermath, some of which reached our shores. I know one person who would agree with me. See it through his eyes...

You need to study the history of the Brotherhood, maybe beginning with Muhammad Anwar el-Sadat...

Make up your mind, please!

 

[Hypoxia]

He's a deal maker. So he'll strike deals to solve problems. He'll say that criminals can keep their assault weapons, but they can only rob illegal aliens, for example.

Tromp's negotiations usually involve threats of default, lawsuits, name-calling, and flat-ass lying. For context, see Carl Icahn Wrote the Playbook for Trump’s Bullying Tweetstorms. Now He’ll Turn Them Into Policy. Call it 'bluemail'. Submit to Tromp's White House or be shotgunned with Executive Asshole tweets and the followup death threats. Want to make a deal? Bend over and smile.

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

His tactics seemed to have worked with Boeing...




:shrug:

 

[water505]

Morally neutral ones.

He's a deal maker. So he'll strike deals to solve problems. He'll say that criminals can keep their assault weapons, but they can only rob illegal aliens, for example.

Oh, so that's what he's going to do!

Your post isn't even worthy of being called stupid.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Oh, so that's what he's going to do!

Your post isn't even worthy of being called stupid.

It is worthy of being called funny.

 

[hashtag4]

Not Obama's fault, because he got the Nobel Peace Prize for Potential.

What a joke! And he went on and added to the carnage in the Middle East after that.

A good reminder for anyone who's still gullible enough to believe the "we're the good guys" and "we want world peace" rhetoric of the liberal mainstream media

 

[phrodeau]

Oh, so that's what he's going to do!

Your post isn't even worthy of being called stupid.

And Trump's tweets are totally worthy of being called stupid.