Is poetry ever really porn?

[annaswirls]

Porn and Poetry: History Repeats Itself


It is kind of scary. Almost 4 years ago and I think I answered the question almost the exact same way.

 

[Senna Jawa]

Porn and Poetry: History Repeats Itself


It is kind of scary. Almost 4 years ago and I think I answered the question almost the exact same way.

You cited at that time definitions of erotica and porno which were sloppy and could not serve as a start point. As a functional idea (just idea) of the two, I'd say that erotica arouses its readers, while porno assists masturbation to its ultimate conclusion. (Have I spelled "functional" properly, or is there "ck" somewhere? )

 

[Senna Jawa]

I've been thinking about this. I don't think good poetry is porn.

It might be, as long as it is much more on the top of being porn. Porn does not assume depth or subtlety. Poetry does.

Good poetry is erotic,

It might be, but there are superb poems which are not erotic (nor pornographic).

but can it be porn?

No. Good poetry must be good poetry, while it may serve on occasions, and on the side, also as porn.

Can poetry make you spank the monkey or diddle your twat?

Yes, some excellent poetry may have such an impact on many.

Why is this simple issue turned into something muddy? It is really very-very simple.

Erotica and porno can provide material and theme for (good) poetry (when it is not good then it is not poetry). Erotica and porno may provide a pretext for poetry. A good poem can have erotic effect on its readers, just like erotica and porno. But a good poem will be much-much more than just porno or just erotica. It will be poetry!

 

[annaswirls]

You cited at that time definitions of erotica and porno which were sloppy and could not serve as a start point. As a functional idea (just idea) of the two, I'd say that erotica arouses its readers, while porno assists masturbation to its ultimate conclusion.

You call definitions sloppy, and then turn to discuss "ideas?" Ideas are much more sloppy if you want to come to any standardized qualification, you cannot begin with a group of people's ideas.

Ideas are fun to discuss, and I enjoy reading people's ideas about what makes "good" poetry or "good" porn, etc but to try to differentiate between the two based on your personal idea is pointless.


You don't like wikipedia's definition, how about Miriam-Webster

Pornography 1 : the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement 2 : material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement

Erotic: 1 : of, devoted to, or tending to arouse sexual love or desire <erotic art> 2 : strongly marked or affected by sexual desire

 

[annaswirls]

Why is this simple issue turned into something muddy? It is really very-very simple.

Erotica and porno can provide material and theme for (good) poetry (when it is not good then it is not poetry). Erotica and porno may provide a pretext for poetry. A good poem can have erotic effect on its readers, just like erotica and porno. But a good poem will be much-much more than just porno or just erotica. It will be poetry!

I agree 100%

 

[Safe_Bet]

There seems to be several "straw men" wandering around making Senna's mud. So, lets limit the discussion to only "good" poetry. Poetry that makes you go, "Mmmm, damn that's good." Stellar, freaking world class poetry.

IMO, Anna is completely correct. Her definitions are dead on.

Pornography: the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.

Parse time.

1. depiction = showing the reader something of a sexual nature. Yup.

2. erotic behavior = if this needs explaining all hope is lost.

3. intended = here I disagree with Ange. We purposely use certain words with the "intent" to arouse. Otherwise we would be writing about tulips instead of nipples (and even THEN you can end up with porn poetry)

4. sexual excitement = see #2.

Therefore, seems REAL clear to me that poetry can easily be porn (thank gawd! )

 

[bogusagain]

In my view excellence raises the game from porn to erotic insight. Porn is just pumping meat and can be well crafted but the difference between porn and the erotic, is its ability of the erotic to give the reader a psychological insight into the minds of protagonists. Without psychological insight, eroticism is just basically wank material and its quality lasts as long as it takes to have a wank. Psychological insight stays with the reader, rattles marbles in the readers head and gives them some psychological understanding of the motivation of the protagonists in a work or of the writer.

Then of course there is the motivation behind any writing, shock, irony, a wilful desire to make the reader confront sexual or cultural taboo etc. It's a tough call to define and differentiate such writing from actual porn because it is for all intents and purposes, porn but the goal is very different. Its more a case of recognizing porn when you see it but as always, for some porn is erotic, for others its just porn ie. wank material and yet for others, its just filth.

 

[Remec]

I've been thinking about this. I don't think good poetry is porn. Good poetry is erotic, but can it be porn? Can poetry make you spank the monkey or diddle your twat?

Maybe not on first read, but I know I have been aroused enough to consider (and maybe did) run a hand along during a reread. Especially if it was something that seemed to come from a voice that mirrored what I know/knew/thought about the author in question.

It also depends quite a bit, I think, on your mood and how easily you can be excited by the brief words that poems tend to be made of. (Sort of like the way whispers of a soft voice in one's ear and the warmth of their breath against your neck stimulates other parts of your body.)

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Maybe not on first read, but I know I have been aroused enough to consider (and maybe did) run a hand along during a reread. Especially if it was something that seemed to come from a voice that mirrored what I know/knew/thought about the author in question.

It also depends quite a bit, I think, on your mood and how easily you can be excited by the brief words that poems tend to be made of. (Sort of like the way whispers of a soft voice in one's ear and the warmth of their breath against your neck stimulates other parts of your body.)

Which authors?!!!

 

[SeattleRain]

Which authors?!!!

Oh I hope its me! There is nothing better to masturbate to than the image of a man masturbating (okay women too) while reading my porno-poetry. Like a mirror in a mirror in a mirror

Me and anna are reconsidering our position, by the way. I think pornography is more like voyeurism of physical acts that are meant to arouse, and erotica is interpretation or artistic representation of the acts with the intention of arousal.

Like the difference between pornographic images and nudes in a painting/sculpture. Close up of cock being inserted into hairless asshole, photograph vs. nude descending a staircase.

In pornography, perhaps, there is not artistic intervention, just opening windows to let you look in.

 

[champagne1982]

Breathless Metamorphosis

I can't keep my hands still
against the cool linen sheets
instead they stretch
each finger luxuriates
catlike as they press nerves
into sensation.

I can't stop my touch
wandering closer
heat beckons fingertips
with warmth and promises
pleasurable wetness.

My metamorphosis so sudden,
from hand to tongue, the tip
twisting infinity around juicy
sustenance, served on platters
of pelvis and hip. Offered
without reservation and taking
much more.

I don't want my fingers to stop
the pressure; swollen, burst,
splash of scalding heat
over my belly and dripped
along the crease to spill
over into amazing.
_________________________

Well? I feel this is erotic and since it has a few graphic moments and was definitely written with the idea that I was going to arouse sexual response from at least one person, I think it's porn, too. Thoughts?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

~gulp~

 

[champagne1982]

~gulp~

'nuff said?

 

[Remec]

Which authors?!!!

*smirk*
*chuckle*
*wink*

Now, now...that would be telling...hehehe

 

[UnderYourSpell]

~pouts~

 

[CharleyH]

I can't imagine having any meaningful clit action while reading a haiku.
I'm just not that fast!

LOL - love you!

 

[EroticOrogeny]

A little to consider

Not for its artistic, scientific, literary, ... merits; consider:

Split spreads
Fluid floods
Surfaces sliding
And now colliding
Masses meeting
Thick slab thrusting
In trench deep
Fluids seep
Folds flowing
Bodies glowing
Everything heats
The cycle repeats

 

[naamplao]

To my way of thinking...

Erotica is simply porn with class.

I have definitely seen a fair bit of sexual poetry that lacks class.

 

[CharleyH]

Porn and Poetry: History Repeats Itself


It is kind of scary. Almost 4 years ago and I think I answered the question almost the exact same way.

Shite! LOL - I asked nearly the same question that long ago? Damn, I am either consistent or getting freaky senile. (PS? I was going to ask the same question tonight!)

 

[annaswirls]

Shite! LOL - I asked nearly the same question that long ago? Damn, I am either consistent or getting freaky senile. (PS? I was going to ask the same question tonight!)

or you are still not satisfied with the answer....

I think another way to ask it would be is porn ever really poetry? That is an easier answer for me.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

I sometimes read poetry live online but when I read erotic poetry, I say "Don't worry, you won't need your towel." I think that is the difference, maybe.

 

[annaswirls]

I sometimes read poetry live online but when I read erotic poetry, I say "Don't worry, you won't need your towel." I think that is the difference, maybe.

hmm. I am not so sure about that. I think I need a towel just by glancing at your leg....

 

[CharleyH]

or you are still not satisfied with the answer....

I think another way to ask it would be is porn ever really poetry? That is an easier answer for me.

As you know, I hope, I was joking. However, you do raise an intriguing question for me. Is porn ever poetry?

Yes. I think porn can more easily be poetry than poetry can be porn, but since you posed the question, I, for one, am interested in your answer.

 

[PandoraGlitters]

hmm. I am not so sure about that. I think I need a towel just by glancing at your leg....

Aw. ::lifts hem::

 

[PandoraGlitters]

Seriously, though, haven't we all read poems that were really graphic diary entries? It's so tiresome. First-he-put-it-in,-then-he-fucked-my-cunt-over-and over-and-we-came-like-cannons poems get on my nerves a bit. Am I just really biased?

ETA: bijou writes a very good erotic poem. Several in the dirty 30 thread were damn hot.