Is this dub-con?

[AwkwardlySet]

I feel like I am stepping into a minefield here, but I'll just say that I believe that much of the misunderstanding comes from people having different ideas about the meaning of certain terms. Some hold on to the more traditional interpretations and some have found new meanings for those same terms. I have seen plenty of explaining here how this or that term means this or that now, and frankly speaking, I don't agree with most of that.

But my point is that understanding each other shouldn't be reliant upon or impeded by our different opinions on certain terms we use. There should be new terms we can use for these things, something that would work for everybody, and something that would make communication flow better rather than opening a debate each time someone uses a term in a context someone else doesn't agree with.

 

[Agent0069]

I still struggle with comprehending what a "dubious consent" is (I get the definition, but it's slapped on everything nowadays), but I don't see why the story premise shouldn't work.

A western main character hooks up with someone, who's not in the western sphere of "influence", and cannot understand what's this "gender" stuff is about. Since she's attracted to the person, she decides to stick with, even after finding out that "he" is actually a "she". Given that "she" knows what a clitoris is, and her love interest might have been surrounded her whole life by someone who's not - it might actually be a cute romance story.

Not following that. She might not be familiar with the term "non-binary", but the concept of non-binary identities isn't particularly an Anglosphere thing.

I'd say a western thing, not exclusive to English language, but largely influenced by English-speaking people. Western society moved from chemical castration, psych wards with "shock therapy" (aka torture), and straight out executions for gay people, to merely being offended at third world countries sending lesbian couples to Eurovision song contest, to being offended at third world countries for not having enough gay people, to practically demanding a person to be gay if they are to secure a high-end position. A crazy transformation, and it happened within a span of, what, a generation, or two?

The point is, people in civilized part of the world got robbed of friendship, comradery, and mutual support within the same sex, and now it's labeled as something only homosexual (queer, non-binary) people do. For example, while American republicans are shouting that you cannot hug a guy or you are gay, American democrats are shouting that you can only be gay if you march on a parade along with a weird fetishists and rainbow flag up your arse. Both sides are completely insane, and I feel pity for younger generation who have to grow up in conditions like that.

And yeah, both sides would see same-sex friends hugging, walking while holding hands or even kissing as something only "non-binary" (or queer, or gay, or whatever you call that nowadays) do, even though it's the most normal thing, and anyone from outside wouldn't even understand what's so wrong here. And same with intercourse - if two thugs are fucking third one - it doesn't make them allies of alphabet people (and all three would beat you up for even suggesting that). If two young girls are fooling around - it also doesn't mean that they have to transition, or start defying their whole personalities around their orientation. And so on. Stop overthinking stuff, people!

Also, I'm not looking for an argument here, and I preemptively agree with whatever will be responded - you are right, I have no idea what I'm talking about, sorry for even bringing that up.

Calling a person with a vagina a female person when they aren’t a female-gendered person is a problem.

Sometimes I think that culling flames of a nuclear Armageddon might be a net positive for the world, even though I'll likely be among the first to perish. I have nothing else to add for the matter.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I'd say a western thing, not exclusive to English language, but largely influenced by English-speaking people. Western society moved from chemical castration, psych wards with "shock therapy" (aka torture), and straight out executions for gay people, to merely being offended at third world countries sending lesbian couples to Eurovision song contest, to being offended at third world countries for not having enough gay people, to practically demanding a person to be gay if they are to secure a high-end position

Er, what? The vast majority of world leaders, elected politicians, CEOs, etc. etc. are not gay.

. A crazy transformation, and it happened within a span of, what, a generation, or two?

The relevant history goes back much longer than a generation, though it's a "two steps forward, one step back" kind of process. I don't have time for a full write-up this morning, but a few data points:

The Chevalier d'Eon, a transgender woman who was legally recognised as a woman in 18th-century France.

The German police-issued "transvestite passes" of 1908/9-1933 (mostly for people who would be termed "transgender" today), a period which also saw Gerda von Zobeltitz and the first documented MtF transition surgeries.

Christine Jorgensen, famous in the USA in the early 1950s, and Roberta Cowell, in the UK around the same time.

And yeah, both sides would see same-sex friends hugging, walking while holding hands or even kissing as something only "non-binary" (or queer, or gay, or whatever you call that nowadays) do,

"Non-binary" and "gay" are not the same thing.

"Gay" = man who's only interested in fucking/dating other men, or woman who's only interested in fucking/dating other women.

"Non-binary" = somebody who doesn't categorise themselves solely as male, or solely as female.

 

[Britva415]

Sometimes I think that culling flames of a nuclear Armageddon might be a net positive for the world

What an absolutely horrible thing to say. You're advocating genocide so that... what? You wouldn't have to think about how confusing other people's identities are for you? So that the surviving ones get driven back into the closet? So that most of them and their supporters just die?

I do get that you aren't saying you want them to be specifically attacked and targeted. That of course would be somewhat worse. But you're still saying... something about how there's a problem which you think needs fixing, and if things went back to the way they were before these queer people were free, it would be good for you and who cares about them.

Yeah, I just put words in your mouth but that's how you sound, whether you would put it in those words or not.

 

[Britva415]

American democrats are shouting that you can only be gay if you march on a parade along with a weird fetishists and rainbow flag up your arse

Of course they aren't. Where does anyone say "sorry, you aren't gay" over some bullshit like that, or say "you're gay, you're required to come march or..." or what? Someone will make you stop calling yoruself gay? Someone will make you stop having gay sex? Someone will break up your gay marriage? Who would enforce that? How?

If two young girls are fooling around - it also doesn't mean that they have to transition, or start defying their whole personalities around their orientation

What are you talking about? You are just making stuff up at this point. Literally nobody is saying that gay girls have to be trans. It makes no sense. Gay and trans are not the same thing. And anyway, what if they did transition? Then they'd both be boys, right? And then what? They'd have to transition again if they still kept making out with each other? Where does it stop? It doesn't pass any kind of common-sense test.

And you're complaining about overthinking - maybe you should stop underthinking.

This whole thing about "young girls" is a scare argument. Nobody is making young people trans, nobody is making them transition. Nobody is brainwashing kids into this. Nobody is surgically changing kids - though, like the one about people making kids trans, this one about surgery is another lie transphobes tell.