Men Now Avoiding Women At Work

[Rightguide]

It looks like the old adage that every action has an opposite reaction is true:


Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo

Arwa Mahdawi

It looks like Mike Pence is quite the trendsetter. The US vice-president famously refuses to have dinner alone with any woman who isn’t his wife – and now working men across corporate America appear to be following his lead.

A new study, due to be published in the journal Organizational Dynamics, has found that, following the #MeToo movement, men are significantly more reluctant to interact with their female colleagues. A few highlights from the research include:

• 27% of men avoid one-on-one meetings with female co-workers. Yep, that’s right, almost a third of men are terrified to be alone in a room with a woman.

• 21% of men said they would be reluctant to hire women for a job that would require close interaction (such as business travel).

• 19% of men would be reluctant to hire an attractive woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...omen-workplace-study-harassment-harvard-metoo

 

[LuciousLadyMary]

It looks like the old adage that every action has an opposite reaction is true:


Men now avoid women at work – another sign we're being punished for #MeToo

Arwa Mahdawi

It looks like Mike Pence is quite the trendsetter. The US vice-president famously refuses to have dinner alone with any woman who isn’t his wife – and now working men across corporate America appear to be following his lead.

A new study, due to be published in the journal Organizational Dynamics, has found that, following the #MeToo movement, men are significantly more reluctant to interact with their female colleagues. A few highlights from the research include:

• 27% of men avoid one-on-one meetings with female co-workers. Yep, that’s right, almost a third of men are terrified to be alone in a room with a woman.

• 21% of men said they would be reluctant to hire women for a job that would require close interaction (such as business travel).

• 19% of men would be reluctant to hire an attractive woman.

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...omen-workplace-study-harassment-harvard-metoo

Totally understandable.

 

[beezzz]

sorta like the Ferguson effect

how soon b4 men are FORCED to work with women?

 

[Maeven_quinn]

It's not nice to misrepresent an article with a little lie of omission.

Anyway, it's not hard to avoid harassing women, or harassing people. The article itself states:

There’s been a lot of talk about “grey areas” in #MeToo. All this harassment business is very difficult for men, we’re told, because nobody even knows what sexual harassment is any more! Men are afraid to even shake a woman’s hand in case she thinks it’s harassment! Easier to just avoid contact altogether! What’s really interesting about this study, however, is that it thoroughly debunks the argument that men are confused about what constitutes unacceptable behavior. The very first thing researchers did was look at 19 behaviours (emailing sexual jokes to a subordinate, for example) and get people to classify it as harassment or not. Surprise, surprise, both genders basically agreed on what harassment entails.

“Most men know what sexual harassment is, and most women know what it is,” Leanne Atwater, a professor at the University of Houston and one of the study’s authors, told the Harvard Business Review. “The idea that men don’t know their behavior is bad and that women are making a mountain out of a molehill is largely untrue. If anything, women are more lenient in defining harassment.”

The idea that #MeToo is "going to far" because people don't know what is unacceptable behavior is anymore (handshakes? omg no!) is not true. Men are not being "punished" by having to adhere to vague, fluctuating, or arbitrary standards.

So men, like Mike Pence, can be as scared as they want to be. But their fear is not the result of a hazy moral ambiguity in the workplace.

 

[beezzz]

^^^reason why MEN avoides crazy women

 

[Rightguide]

It's not nice to misrepresent an article with a little lie of omission.

Anyway, it's not hard to avoid harassing women, or harassing people. The article itself states:



The idea that #MeToo is "going to far" because people don't know what is unacceptable behavior is anymore (handshakes? omg no!) is not true. Men are not being "punished" by having to adhere to vague, fluctuating, or arbitrary standards.

So men, like Mike Pence, can be as scared as they want to be. But their fear is not the result of a hazy moral ambiguity in the workplace.

I would have posted more of the article but I knew snowflakes would count the bullet points as paragraphs and whine to Laurel. I did post the link so I had no intent of omission, snowflake.

 

[dolf]

Being a woman, having spent considerable time being made to feel uncomfortable around men, I've received ample advice on how to deal with such things.

Don't be so thin skinned
Grow up
You know how the world works
Just avoid him/her
It's just a misunderstanding
Stop blowing things out of proportion

Any help?

 

[RobDownSouth]

I would have posted more of the article but I knew snowflakes would count the bullet points as paragraphs and whine to Laurel. I did post the link so I had no intent of omission, snowflake.

Even better, you could have linked to the original Harvard Business Review article instead of the Guardian's cherry-picked "hot take". The Guardian's slanted piece paints men as the "real victims here"

 

[Maeven_quinn]

I would have posted more of the article but I knew snowflakes would count the bullet points as paragraphs and whine to Laurel. I did post the link so I had no intent of omission, snowflake.

What you did is skimmed the parts that you liked and would fit with your "woe is unto masculinity" thesis, and did not give a damn about the what the article was actually saying when it contradicted that thesis.

You did this because you are a conservative, and conservatives have no concern for the truth.

 

[RobDownSouth]

What you did is skimmed the parts that you liked and would fit with your "woe is unto masculinity" thesis, and did not give a damn about the what the article was actually saying when it contradicted that thesis.

You did this because you are a conservative, and conservatives have no concern for the truth.

Rightguide simply yearns for a return to those halcyon days of yore whens dames knew their place.

 

[Lancedalot]

Rob enjoys being one of the gals.

 

[HisArpy]

Being a woman, having spent considerable time being made to feel uncomfortable around men, I've received ample advice on how to deal with such things.

Don't be so thin skinned
Grow up
You know how the world works
Just avoid him/her
It's just a misunderstanding
Stop blowing things out of proportion

Any help?

Being someone who has both sued on the behalf of, as well as defended, clients in workplace sexual harassment cases, let me tell you that the ONE THING people need to learn about and have broader discussions about so it's out in the open, is human nature.

We don't know squat about how the human body works when it comes to attraction. We say we do, but we don't. Worse, none of what we DO know is part of the circulation of "common knowledge".

As an example, I wear deodorant - Old Spice Classic - and it's the ONLY deodorant I've ever worn and I do not wear anything else like cologne or aftershave. I cannot count the number of times women have told me that I "smell really nice". Really? I "smell really nice" today but not yesterday? Same deodorant, same shampoo, same soap, same laundry detergent, same, same, same. So, why do I "smell really nice" today?

Because whoever told me that is ovulating and doesn't understand what that is doing to her senses when it comes to her interacting with the males around her.

This also works the other way too. Males have cycles where they are more "masculine" in their bodily systems/hormones than at other times. This changes their perceptions about the females around them.

These are non-controllable influences on how men and women interact, yet almost no one even thinks of this shit.

Instead we point fingers and scream "sexual predator!". And then sue or prosecute.

I'm not talking about the real sexual predators here, just how men and women interact in the workplace. As long as people are stupid about how our bodies work and how we're attracted to each other, there's going to be problems in the workplace. Problems that are exacerbated by lawmakers who think that ink on paper will prevent humans from being humans. Problems that individuals with political agendas will exploit for their own purposes at the expense of people and society as a whole.

We just have to stop going down this road where everything everyone does is "bad". Or, IOW, we all need to grow the fuck up and be adults.

 

[dolf]

Out of curiosity, how was that relevant to my post?

 

[LesDesirable]

Out of curiosity, how was that relevant to my post?

He thought your AV was cute and wanted to get closer to you by quoting.

 

[RobDownSouth]

He thought your AV was cute and wanted to get closer to you by quoting.

^^^
*nods*
This dame gets it!

 

[beezzz]

What you did is skimmed the parts that you liked and would fit with your "woe is unto masculinity" thesis, and did not give a damn about the what the article was actually saying when it contradicted that thesis.

You did this because you are a conservative, and conservatives have no concern for the truth.

you are a DANGER to men and should be avoided at all costs

 

[HisArpy]

Out of curiosity, how was that relevant to my post?

It is a differing viewpoint about how people interact with each other without damning either sex for engaging in behaviors which they cannot control.

It's not about being "thinned skinned" or any of the other items you listed. Nor is it about "sit down and shut up".

When people interact, they should understand how the different sexes engage at different times. Unfortunately, we suppress what little information we have right at a time when we should be learning it while growing up. The disaster which results from that suppression are people who have no idea what it means to be X or Y and why/how we are attracted to each other. They then bring this ignorance to work with them.

Guess what happens next...

 

[Sean]

It is a differing viewpoint about how people interact with each other without damning either sex for engaging in behaviors which they cannot control.

It's not about being "thinned skinned" or any of the other items you listed. Nor is it about "sit down and shut up".

When people interact, they should understand how the different sexes engage at different times. Unfortunately, we suppress what little information we have right at a time when we should be learning it while growing up. The disaster which results from that suppression are people who have no idea what it means to be X or Y and why/how we are attracted to each other. They then bring this ignorance to work with them.

Guess what happens next...

Weirdly, Tim, no matter what time of the month it was I've never felt the need to sexually harass someone. Maybe that's just me.

 

[dolf]

Ovulation has never forced my hand onto a colleague's arse. Pms has never driven me to pester someone for a date after they had expressed disinterest. The scent of aftershave hasn't coerced lewd texts.

In my current role, I'm well aware of who does and doesn't find me attractive. This isn't a problem because I work with men who grew the fuck up.

 

[HisArpy]

Ovulation has never forced my hand onto a colleague's arse. Pms has never driven me to pester someone for a date after they had expressed disinterest. The scent of aftershave hasn't coerced lewd texts.

In my current role, I'm well aware of who does and doesn't find me attractive. This isn't a problem because I work with men who grew the fuck up.

Apparently not damning those who "didn't grow the fuck up" isn't within the arc of your understanding of how things work.

Perhaps if you made an effort to understand it's the fact that NO ONE TAUGHT THEM what it means to be X or Y and how that affects their behaviors, some enlightenment might possibly be shed on your "current role" and mindset on this issue.

Blaming someone else for their ignorance of your ignorance isn't exactly the height of intelligence.

 

[HisArpy]

Weirdly, Tim, no matter what time of the month it was I've never felt the need to sexually harass someone. Maybe that's just me.

As usual, Sean comes along, thinks he knows what he's talking about, and instantly proves that he doesn't while trying to appear "clever".

He's still stuck on stupid with the "Timmeh" thing too.

 

[dolf]

Why don't you spell it out for the class. Using fat crayons and flash cards.

 

[FataMorgana]

Being someone who has both sued on the behalf of, as well as defended, clients in workplace sexual harassment cases, let me tell you that the ONE THING people need to learn about and have broader discussions about so it's out in the open, is human nature.

We don't know squat about how the human body works when it comes to attraction. We say we do, but we don't. Worse, none of what we DO know is part of the circulation of "common knowledge".

As an example, I wear deodorant - Old Spice Classic - and it's the ONLY deodorant I've ever worn and I do not wear anything else like cologne or aftershave. I cannot count the number of times women have told me that I "smell really nice". Really? I "smell really nice" today but not yesterday? Same deodorant, same shampoo, same soap, same laundry detergent, same, same, same. So, why do I "smell really nice" today?

Because whoever told me that is ovulating and doesn't understand what that is doing to her senses when it comes to her interacting with the males around her.

This also works the other way too. Males have cycles where they are more "masculine" in their bodily systems/hormones than at other times. This changes their perceptions about the females around them.

These are non-controllable influences on how men and women interact, yet almost no one even thinks of this shit.

Instead we point fingers and scream "sexual predator!". And then sue or prosecute.

I'm not talking about the real sexual predators here, just how men and women interact in the workplace. As long as people are stupid about how our bodies work and how we're attracted to each other, there's going to be problems in the workplace. Problems that are exacerbated by lawmakers who think that ink on paper will prevent humans from being humans. Problems that individuals with political agendas will exploit for their own purposes at the expense of people and society as a whole.

We just have to stop going down this road where everything everyone does is "bad". Or, IOW, we all need to grow the fuck up and be adults.

OMG this is so true. If ever I'm near a bloke wearing High Karate my uterus explodes and it's like the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan.

 

[Sean]

Why don't you spell it out for the class. Using fat crayons and flash cards.

You do know Tim is one of the...special...kids, right?

 

[HisArpy]

Why don't you spell it out for the class. Using fat crayons and flash cards.

Spell what out? That you are appearing to project that women are the only "victims" in the workplace? Or that somehow you personally getting "unwanted texts" or "touched" or "everything else" means that you're an expert on the subject?

Being an adult is different than childhood and interactions between adults are different than childhood interactions because HORMONES get in the way sometimes. Not always, but sometimes. And, when you combine that with the fact that some people never get beyond a mental age of 16 and you get all kinds of unwanted "attention" happening everywhere.

That doesn't mean everyone is like that. It means that if you want it to change, you have to stop being a victim, stop strangling the discussion, and START teaching people to know what's going on in the big game called "life". And why. <--- which is the MOST important part.

The part you seem to not care about.