Millie's LGBTQ+ lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer or questioning, intersex, asexual, and more discussion thread

[MillieDynamite]

It wasn't an insult to you, vailed or otherwise. I wasn't offended by what you said, but since apparently you were, I apologize.

Thinly veiled insults and reiterating the premise I've never disagreed with as if I have would suggest otherwise, but I'm done anyway. That was the only point I felt was relevant the discussion, and I've presented it.

 

[MillieDynamite]

From Wikipedia, Leslie Feinberg argues in Transgender Liberation that "Joan of Arc was burned at the stake by the Inquisition of the Catholic church because she refused to stop dressing as a man." According to Feinberg, "She was a transvestite – an expression of her identity she was willing to die for rather than renounce."

Full article Cross-dressing, gender identity, and sexuality of Joan of Arc

We know from historical records that the female-born French saint presented as a man with short black hair. Why, then, is she so damn feminine in artistic portrayals?

Full article The Misgendering of Joan of Arc

I didn't write anything original about Joan of Arc and got the information I've used from these, and other articles.

 

[alohadave]

Actually, at a Christmas party the other night with Jo, one woman told a man hitting on her, "I can't talk to you for three reasons. I'm happily married, you're not intelligent, and you disgust me."

Pleasant company, that one.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

The point you seem to be missing, is that there is huge diversity of experiences, and the aspec community perhaps better than anyone understand that there are hundreds of different experiences and labels are imprecise and useful mainly as self-descriptors during the evolving understanding of self, and as a way for people to identify others with similar experiences.

Thus, Amy starting a new job and announcing she is quoiromantic bidemisexual would confuse everyone, so she would more likely say nothing, and maybe she would say she's aspec to close colleagues, and if she met someone else aspec she might then specify quoiromantic bidemisexual, because that might then be understood and respected.

What is aspec?

 

[AlinaX]

Aspec – an umbrella term for anyone who identifies on the asexual and/or aromantic spectrum.

 

[MillieDynamite]

No, no one has every said she's a pleasant person. Not even her poor husband.

Pleasant company, that one.

 

[MillieDynamite]

Also, Joan of Arc wasn't saint by the Church for her heroic saving of France. Her conviction by Inquisition was overturned as not having been proven and because the Church broke their own rules in the trial. She was still burned at the stake by English authorities (well before her conviction was overturned) so that little tidbit didn't help her. She was sainted for being a virgin.

She was uneducated and illiterate. But could fight with the best of the men!

 

[TheRedChamber]

Regarding genders in various world-cultures - it's obviously a hugely complicated subject and easy to get completely the wrong end of the stick or express ideas badly.

But whenever I read about these list of cultures, they always seem to be basically the same. Traditional cismale, Traditional cisfemale (with whatever exactly masculine and feminine mean to those cultures), Biological males who tend/behave/feel female, Biological females who tend/behave/feel more male, and then some cultures make some recognition of intersex individuals.

Unlike (most) Western cultures which pretend the last three don't exist, some cultures make a cultural space for such people. They seem to be saying (for the equivalent of a MtF person) "You are not female, but, within certain proscribed limits, you can behave in certain female ways."

Then these third genders will often be sent into religious institutions out of the way, allowed special highly proscribed professions or roles in society, or (fairly rarely) coopted to help with their extended family. In certain examples, (and this may be me being very cynical) it seems to me like the genders have been creating expressly to permit 'gay' sex between two biological men by putting the more feminine one in a specially socially constructed gender.

I guess what I'm saying is whenever I look into these things, it seems to me that I see the same patterns for people with gender dysphoria. The Bugis mentioned earlier are interesting because they seem to have codified all five mentioned above. I wonder if any society has six.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

Aspec – an umbrella term for anyone who identifies on the asexual and/or aromantic spectrum.

Ah.